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No fething Space Marines.

Period. The only allowable way to play as an Astartes is as a Scout. Or a Servitor.

Playing as a Guardsman or anything of that nature actually would be very easy to justify. There are parts of armies that are given more leeway and more latitude in how they operate. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you...my class/race combination list:

Imperial Guard--Veteran, Enginseer, and Sanctioned Psyker.
Eldar--Autarch, Warlock, and Ranger.
Tau Empire-Pathfinder, Ethereal, Kroot.
Tyranids-Lictor, Zoanthrope, Genestealer.
Orks-Mekboy, Nob, Weird Boy.
Lost and the Damned-Renegade, Cultist, Witch.
Necron-Pariah, Lord, Fleshworker.
Dark Eldar-Haemonculus, Mandrake, Incubi.

That gives each race a good, solid three classes to work with. One that's combat oriented and two that can be considered a "support" class, of which they can break into a mechanical/morale supporter, the other which would be more of a psyker or warpcrafted style support.

Add in a form of a "talent" system, where one can further specialize into specific roles(Veteran being the best example I can think of: Stormtrooper, Light Infantry, or Close Quarters Assault) as you pick and choose...

Voila. Restrict skills/talents to being passive(Assault Training allows you to more accurately compensate for recoil while firing on the move, Cityfighting gives you access to Rappeling/Fastrope training) or if activated, require specific items(calling in an orbital strike, for example requires an Inquisitorial Mandate and a high-gain Vox set for the Veteran) and have specific setups(binoculars/target designator, specific coordinates, etc) and bamf.

You've got Frontlines: 40k. I'd play it. For sure.

I agree, Space Marines -should- be NPC only, and it should be incredibly rare to see one at a distance, let alone fight beside one.

But let's be honest - Space Marines are GW's lifeblood, and the other races are simply organs. Some organs aren't necessary for survival, but you always need blood. If GW cut out playable marines, the game would probably not have the player head-count they're aiming for. Sure, NPC marines would be a far more fluff-friendly approach to appease us grumpy old guys, but it won't sell the game to the majority.

The good thing about aiming it at a wider audience is that it'll help build the hobby tenfold.

As for the list, the only races I would say no-dice to would be Necrons and Tyranids. And as for classes... Ethereal would be a bad idea as well. Put a Fire Warrior in there instead and give them medical equipment.

But we don't know for sure -how- it's being set up. I guess we'll get what we get.

Anyway, again, no playable Marines would indeed be better. But at least they're balancing it out by making it incredibly hard to play one.

See, but here's the way I've always thought about it in regards to Space Marines(hurr!) and Chaos Marines:

Have them be a form of INCREDIBLY rare to obtain, for lack of a better word, reputation reward.

You get yourself in good by responding to a distress call from an Astartes Captain whose position is being overrun? Well...he just might decide he owes you a favor in the form of a Locator Beacon for a Drop Podded Tactical Squad, provided the Chapter is operating in the same area later.

Would make massive battles far more interesting to suddenly have a Tactical Squad on the field at a key moment, and knowing that a player actually burnt through an amazing gift just to turn the tide?

Or even just seeing one or two off in the distance while you're fighting. Space Marines are rarely seen close-up. Most of the Imperium has never actually seen one. They should reflect that by making even seeing one a big deal. And seeing one up close should be even more uncommon.

Theres supposedly one in development, and has been for quite some time....

I believe for "leveling" they should take an Aion route. You start as a Peon in whatever faction you choose (they should at least make space marines, chaos, eldar, nids, orcs playable, maybe a couple more). As you "level" up, you eventually get to choose a path to take (I.E. Talents like in WoW). These "paths" determine what kind of charecter you will be in the 40k universe. For example, a Space Marine player might start going up the chaplain path. They would go up, working up into an initiate, and eventually (max level) become a Space Marines Chaplain. Same with assault terminators (become a normal SM w/ power weapon, eventually earning your TDA and things). The pvp should be like a game of 40k where people of simular skills and things are set up in units. I.E. Say you have terminators, they would form a unit. This, of course, would be managed by the leader of the battle. Things like Chaplains and Initiates (just like in normal 40k) can be assigned to any unit, while things like a normal Terminator couldn't be assigned to a unit with normal space marines or sergeants. I think that would be cool, sticking with fluff, while allowing people of higher levels to be seperated (like have certain areas in an arena be accessed only by those players or something). I liked the way Warhammer did pvp, would like to see something similar, but more ingenuitive, in the 40k one. As well there MUST be multiple planets. And I would like to see battlefleet gothic style battles in space eventually, that would be rad. Lastly I think guilds would be like the different Factions we have in 40k (like Space marine chapters, etc.). Except, unlike in WoW or Warhammer, make a preset on how you can name your guild. I would hate to see a Chaos chapter named the "Altar of Fuzzy Kissy Things" running around... such a face palm -_-

Lastly, make the game more PvP oriented ENTIRELY. Less PvE on end game. Honestly, 40k is not about a small group running around killing some evil warlord for bad ass items to stomp everyone else. Its about cooperative strategy used to control and destroy your enemy for whatever goal set forth by your faction. I would punch a panda to see 40k become like Warhammer where end game precedence aims toward PvE (which was bad) or WoW (which is not only bad, but stupid easy).

I think a 40k MMO well done would be a dream come true. Put it in capable hands of people who love the game and want to see it portrayed in the correct light. Relic did an awesome job with Dawn of War, and Space Marine looks pretty good so far.

Zid wrote:Theres supposedly one in development, and has been for quite some time....

That's what this whole discussion has been about.

Talent and Squad trees will be present. (Squad trees are set up the same as a talent tree, and will determine what sort of build your squad will have)

Levelling sounds like it will take the classic approach, but ranks and awards/medals/honours will also be involved.

I think I remember THQ saying that looting items will have unforseen consiquences as well (IE: A Guardsman using Xenos weapons or wearing Xenos armour won't go over too well with the Imperium) So it's much less of a grabfest, which is a huge step away from WoW and other MMORPGs. IMO, this will make the game much harder, and will take focus away from the "L33t Sp34king" Dungeon groups responsible for wrecking the enjoyment of most other MMOs.

THQ is also saying that the main focus of the game will be PvP. The PvE and Missions (Because "Quest" is too archaic for the Grimdarkfarfuture) will be related to ownership of a world (or worlds), which will in turn be decided through massive PvP conflicts for ownership of said world(s)

metallifan wrote:

Zid wrote:Theres supposedly one in development, and has been for quite some time....

That's what this whole discussion has been about.

Talent and Squad trees will be present. (Squad trees are set up the same as a talent tree, and will determine what sort of build your squad will have)

Levelling sounds like it will take the classic approach, but ranks and awards/medals/honours will also be involved.

I think I remember THQ saying that looting items will have unforseen consiquences as well (IE: A Guardsman using Xenos weapons or wearing Xenos armour won't go over too well with the Imperium) So it's much less of a grabfest, which is a huge step away from WoW and other MMORPGs. IMO, this will make the game much harder, and will take focus away from the "L33t Sp34king" Dungeon groups responsible for wrecking the enjoyment of most other MMOs.

THQ is also saying that the main focus of the game will be PvP. The PvE and Missions (Because "Quest" is too archaic for the Grimdarkfarfuture) will be related to ownership of a world (or worlds), which will in turn be decided through massive PvP conflicts for ownership of said world(s)

Aye, that much I've heard. I'll be very upset if (like Warhammer Online) it becomes a PvE game in the end. I was EXTREMELY upset by that in warhammer online... I was looking forward to 90% end game pvp, 10% pve (maybe for some gems or something).... instead the pvp turned out to be just instanced pve in the end game. Bleh.

See, but THQ didn't develop Warhammer Online. That's the big difference. THQ knows how to make games. They know what people want and what they expect, and can find a balance between the two 955 of the time.

metallifan wrote:See, but THQ didn't develop Warhammer Online. That's the big difference. THQ knows how to make games. They know what people want and what they expect, and can find a balance between the two 955 of the time.

I don't think THQ has made an MMO, when Mythic (makers of WHO) made things like Dark Age of Camelot (probably the best pvp MMO ever made).... kinda saddens the panda

Zid wrote:

metallifan wrote:See, but THQ didn't develop Warhammer Online. That's the big difference. THQ knows how to make games. They know what people want and what they expect, and can find a balance between the two 955 of the time.

I don't think THQ has made an MMO, when Mythic (makers of WHO) made things like Dark Age of Camelot (probably the best pvp MMO ever made).... kinda saddens the panda

This may be true, but I would say that overall, THQ puts out better product. Personally, I think that between the fact that they've been making games as long as they have, and the fact that everyone in the company involved with the 40K product market has taken up the tabletop game to get a better feel, we'll see an awesome MMO that'll set a few new bars for the industry. I just get a good feeling about this one. And my feelings don't usually lie.

here's what should happen.

Could choose between SM/Chaos/Orks/Eldar with the rest of the races being allies or enemies respectively but not playable.

-If you choose ranged would be fps-style along the lines of Planetside. An additional thing taken from Planetstrike could be their use of vehicles and driving them.

-Can use melee along the lines of Fallen Earth or Oblivion where you can be in first or third person and click for each melee swing with directionality and hitboxing.

-Mounted combat could fit in taken from the pages of Mount & Blade. (which by the way, has some of the best out there)

-For some of the chaos daemons should go along lines of AvP2 the game in respects to wall running and long-distance jumping. Though should reduce range and effectiveness for balance most likely.

-Eldar psychic abilities can be used as buffs (fortune, guide, embolden) debuffs (doom, etc) AoE's like Eldritch storm using similar placing templates like in WoW and Dragon Age.

-Should have a massive galaxy map with a few hundred planets you can wage war back and forth on and claim as your own through the construction of Sovereignty buildings like in EVE online.
Other aspects to take from EVE would be the extremely player run economy. Each planet has resources that the players gather and use in the construction of armor, weapons, vehicles, fortresses, and everything in between.--
Everytime you die you don't lose your level or skills, but you lose all your armor and weapons. Gear would have a strong influence, but combat moves fast enough where a skilled opponent can win with worse gear.
Planetary resources gathering and industry would be important to continually supply your army.
Additionally, skills would be trained like they are in EVE, through buying skill books and actual time passing to train what you have selected. However, the skills would be simplified and times reduced.
In this way characters can't simply be power-leveled, but progress as time goes by. As part of this, there would be enough specializations in a manner parallel to frigate, cruiser, battleship, electronic attack ship, assault ships, black ops, stealth bomber, etc with their own roles that are needed. In having those specializations you could spend your time in one aspect and quickly become very proficient in it and be able to stand up to older players.
Older characters have the advantage of more time spent on skills, but don't simply win combat because they are higher level.

-Possible use of classes and have different skill trees that you train in that are only available to that class but still using EVE training. Otherwise no class but simply being able to use different gear, abilities, etc by what skills you have trained.
If classes used:
-Sm classes could include: Chaplain, Librarian, Sergeant, Techmarine, Terminator.
-Orks include: Warboss, Weirdboy, Loota, Mekboy, Burna.
-Chaos include: Berzerker, Plague Marine, Sorcerer, Noise Marine, Daemon.
-Eldar include: Farseer, Dire Avenger, Howling Banshee, Ranger, Wraithguard.

-Could also visit well known large battlegrounds such as Armageddon and Cadia where you can't actually take the planet but would be more of a battleground kind of area. Could throw in no loss of gear in those areas.

-Random general options: Gear could be colored to your liking as in Warhammer Online. Your chapter or warband or w/e could also pay to give all their players the option of taking the exact same set of colors that they've customized.
Another thing that could use from Warhammer Online is trophy slots where you can add things like additional skulls, pouches, liturgies, spikes, etc for decoration.
-The book of knowledge from Warhammer Online would also be a good addition. Keeps track of a ton of your stats, lore behind what you've encountered, info on creatures, planets, named gear, and so on and so forth. WoW copied parts of this soon after Warhammer came out.

I've spent a few dozen hours thinking on this and could ramble on for a very long time about this subject, but for now I've covered enough to satisfy my splurging reflex. Enjoy.

Here's a few thoughts about what would make the game really incredible.

Do's

Do make it PvP oriented, with ranged combat ala Planetside, Melee classes that can compete effectively with ranged weapons, and battle-changing special weapons and psychic abilities that may be fired off under certain conditions.

Do include a lot more than simple PvP in various locations, such as an intricate resource system involving transport of cargo from shipping lanes to front lines, repair and manufacturing of weapons, ammo (yes, small arms ammo!) technology and upgrades. This adds the dimension of supply line raids, the need to escort transports, and non combatant options for play.

Do give us access to all races, classes and abilities, but tempered by being very VERY hard to achieve the truly powerful unlocks, or at great cost. Guardsmen can gain rank, scouts can eventually be marines, Orks grow bigger as they fight and win, Eldar have career paths and can eventually become aspect warriors, Etc.

Do make it a HUGE world/system/galaxy giving large areas to control and build a war effort on. Think Eve online, a game that pretty much forces anyone who wants to make a difference join a large group of players who collectively (or by dictatorship) plan large scale fights, sometimes hundreds to a side, to gain ground or reshape the political structure.

Friendly fire is disabled between races. This discourages "We'll send in our Grey Knights to mop up after our Tyranids and Chaos Cultists assault the bastion!" type mishmash alliances.

Do give a LOT of customization options to each character, this is what keeps people coming back, trying new configurations.

Do allow some alliances between groups within certain races, but only if agreed by guild/company/whaagh leaders, and with limitations.

Don'ts[b]

Don't make it a level grinding game. Seriously, we should all stand up and say "Never again."

Don't make it easy to gain rank/class/upgrades, or just a matter of patience. It should take group effort and resources, again think Eve Online where no one person can create a Titan or high end ship. if things get messed up, developers can introduce balances/nerfs/planetary bombardments. People whine but people will whine no matter what. Might as well rule the game with an iron fist.

Don't pander. Make it hard and unforgiving. Just like the 41st millennium should be.


I think that's about as much time as I want to spend thinking about a game that doesn't exist of a game of a world that doesn't exist.

For the "do" category I'm thinking of game (can't remember the name) where who won PvP was based purely on skill. That could work
.

Krellnus wrote:For the "do" category I'm thinking of game (can't remember the name) where who won PvP was based purely on skill. That could work
.

A definate answer from THQ on this: A beginning player can kill an 'endgame' character with a single headshot or a few body hits. Sounds like the shooting mechanic of the MMO is going to be something akin to CoD/R6/GR where you take 2 or 3 good shots and you go down.

How bout making space marines like jedi? maybe not quite THAT hard to get..but you get the idea as well as having similar status' for each race

Somehow I doubt it will be a galaxy-wide map.

http://au.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/warhammer40kmmo/news.html?sid=6166560&om_act=convert&om_clk=gsupdates&tag=updates;title;3

Gamespot has stuff on it, nothing ground breaking or new but here it is, an interview Kelly Flock of THQ

metallifan wrote:

Krellnus wrote:For the "do" category I'm thinking of game (can't remember the name) where who won PvP was based purely on skill. That could work
.

A definate answer from THQ on this: A beginning player can kill an 'endgame' character with a single headshot or a few body hits. Sounds like the shooting mechanic of the MMO is going to be something akin to CoD/R6/GR where you take 2 or 3 good shots and you go down.

That I don't agree with, and I think that mechanic would suck... I don't want WH40K Online to become like any of the billions of FPS's out there.... Oh, and if we get nids, ya honestly think a head shot would down a carni? or for that fact the helmet on a libby or termi won't deflect a bullet? Kinda lame if they do go this route...

Do you really think Carnifexes would be playable?

Kanluwen wrote:Do you really think Carnifexes would be playable?

If nids are playable (possibility), why wouldn't they? I mean they'll obviously have some sort of vehicle mechanic where you can probably operate land raiders and stuff, which would be cool.

And if Nids are playable, why would they have you playing anything, whatsoever, that requires Synapse control?

If we DO see playable Nids, you can almost be guaranteed to play as a Lictor, Warrior, or a Genestealer.

Y'know...things that can operate independent of a Synapse beast.

It's common knowledge that not -all- races will be playable. I'm thinking Nids', Crons', and DE probably won't be playable races.

Zid wrote:

metallifan wrote:

Krellnus wrote:For the "do" category I'm thinking of game (can't remember the name) where who won PvP was based purely on skill. That could work
.

A definate answer from THQ on this: A beginning player can kill an 'endgame' character with a single headshot or a few body hits. Sounds like the shooting mechanic of the MMO is going to be something akin to CoD/R6/GR where you take 2 or 3 good shots and you go down.

That I don't agree with, and I think that mechanic would suck... I don't want WH40K Online to become like any of the billions of FPS's out there.... Oh, and if we get nids, ya honestly think a head shot would down a carni? or for that fact the helmet on a libby or termi won't deflect a bullet? Kinda lame if they do go this route...

TBH I don't think a regenerating Fex could grow a new head.

metallifan wrote:It's common knowledge that not -all- races will be playable. I'm thinking Nids', Crons', and DE probably won't be playable races.

De better be playable or imma kill a kitten... I wanna be Chaos and DE! Though I'd be interested in seeing how IG would work seeing as, ya know, being a weak little guardsman would suck... unless ya get a leman russ to command

I think it should be much more in the vein of Inquisitor and necromunda.

Space marines should be out as they are too powerful but they should appear as npcs and enemys and you should still be able to get hold of power armour, just not marine power armour.

The only way I could agree with nids being playable are as genestealer cultists, but not the patriarch.

I like the idea of being a guardsman. There are alot of career options for Guardsman, so there be lots of variation.

Zid wrote:

metallifan wrote:It's common knowledge that not -all- races will be playable. I'm thinking Nids', Crons', and DE probably won't be playable races.

Though I'd be interested in seeing how IG would work seeing as, ya know, being a weak little guardsman would suck... unless ya get a leman russ to command

Vehicles will likely be in the game is what they've said. Whether or not you can pilot them, I dunnno.

And you get to lead an NPC squad. My guess is GMEQ will just get bigger squads.

What game, I thought these were just all us wishing a 40k mmo is coming out.

Lord-Loss wrote:a 40k mmo is coming out.

Fixed it for you.

Declared release is FY April 2011/2012

So some time between Apr. '11 and Apr '12 it'll hit shelves unless THQ/Vigil hits a major snag.

I want it to basically be Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 esque combat style, this would make cover very realistic and such.

Radars should be included, Counter-Strike style.

You SHOULD be able to pilot vehicles, aswell as titans when you are at basically max level, aswell as having to go through a gigantic questline beforehand. Warhound's aren't free.

The races should be completely seperate, alliances WILL NOT WORK in this game. An IG veteran should be able to match a Space Marine, maybe not completely fluffy, but thats what needs to happen.

I think we all know that you won't be able to play as all the races at release, so what I expect is this on release for races.

Space Marines
Imperial Guard
Chaos
Eldar
Orks
And probably Tau for the release.

Nids could be viable, but nobody would be a gaunt, lol, you would either be a Lictor, Ravener, Warrior, etc.

This has promise, and I'll play it regardless at the start.