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Ravenous D wrote:Apparently as the rumour goes all boxes are seeing a 5-25% increase, blisters are going down and paints are going down.

Cadians at £15 a box will be a 66% increase over the last two months.

Ravenous D wrote:As for the reason to the increase its to pay for the raises of redshirts.

I'm going come right out and say this is absolutely false, care to prove me otherwise?

RavenousD: That's brilliant.

Actions:
- Transition workforce from high-churn, inexpensive, unskilled labor to expensive skilled labor in anticipation of expansion.
- In order to accomodate the above, raise prices.

Reactions:
- Increase in prices to "core" components of their "core" games results in an increased barrier (monetary or otherwise) to people starting or expanding.
- The current cost is enough to dissuade many from starting. This further increase will further errode their customer base.
- While it is true that their targeted demographic still has plenty of disposable income, there is that mental barrier to overcome when purchasing "frivilous goods" such as hobby materials. I for one am much more liable to spend $10-20/week on Magic the Gathering opposed to $50-$70/month on a large GW kit as the $50 is beyond a preset "mental" threshold I have set for hobby spending - even though monthly small spending will eventually outstrip the cost of additional GW product.
- Due to these new barriers in sales, I'm not sure that GW's retail chain will expand as anticipated...
- If GW's retail network does not expand as anticipated, this initiative will result in store overheads increasing as high-value employees collect in the stores. In order to mitigate this overhead, three things (or combination of) can be done - 1. Reduction of workforce - 2. Reduction in salaries - 3. Raise prices.

GW will probably do all three. Needless to say, another brilliant move by GW management.

George Spiggott wrote:
I'm going come right out and say this is absolutely false, care to prove me otherwise?

What else can it really be? Its not improved technology, not shipping or oil, GW taking it out on the colonies for the poor british pound, then really what else is logical? Thats a $5 increase per hour to every employee who stays 2 years, that and GW is planning on opening 30 stores in Canada alone for the next 5 years.

If it is indeed not the cause for the insane increase then I'd love to know the actual cause.

keezus wrote:RavenousD: That's brilliant.

Actions:
- Transition workforce from high-churn, inexpensive, unskilled labor to expensive skilled labor in anticipation of expansion.
- In order to accomodate the above, raise prices.

Reactions:
- Increase in prices to "core" components of their "core" games results in an increased barrier (monetary or otherwise) to people starting or expanding.
- The current cost is enough to dissuade many from starting. This further increase will further errode their customer base.
- While it is true that their targeted demographic still has plenty of disposable income, there is that mental barrier to overcome when purchasing "frivilous goods" such as hobby materials. I for one am much more liable to spend $10-20/week on Magic the Gathering opposed to $50-$70/month on a large GW kit as the $50 is beyond a preset "mental" threshold I have set for hobby spending - even though monthly small spending will eventually outstrip the cost of additional GW product.
- Due to these new barriers in sales, I'm not sure that GW's retail chain will expand as anticipated...
- If GW's retail network does not expand as anticipated, this initiative will result in store overheads increasing as high-value employees collect in the stores. In order to mitigate this overhead, three things (or combination of) can be done - 1. Reduction of workforce - 2. Reduction in salaries - 3. Raise prices.

GW will probably do all three. Needless to say, another brilliant move by GW management.

They already did #1 by getting rid off all their part time work force and only hire "career orientated people" with their assesment centers. Technically #2 falls in that as well but then they are increasing it by a great deal, and we already know about #3.

Its definitely not exchange rates, oil, transport, technology, improved customer service, or better events, which leaves only one plausable reason, which has thus far been the one Ive been hearing from GW and its representitives.

Ravenous D wrote:which leaves only one plausable reason, which has thus far been the one Ive been hearing from GW and its representitives.

WHich one's that then? Lining Kirby's back pocket?

Foolish Mortal from Warseer. The marine box is will be going up to £25 not $ but pounds. I got this from an ex area manager who GW had to pay off. And he still knows plenty people in the company who he talks to, model designers etc. And even they are disatisfied with the prices

Staggering price increase really.

Ravenous D wrote:What else can it really be?

Sales are down and they need to 'fix' that with a price increase.

Osbad wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:which leaves only one plausable reason, which has thus far been the one Ive been hearing from GW and its representitives.

WHich one's that then? Lining Kirby's back pocket?

That the new "career focused" GW with its much higher paid employees will lead to better product knowledge and ultimately better service.

There is one glaring hole in this thinking though: What about all the people that dont go to GW stores? I guess its okay to gouge them for a service they neither want or need.

I can't think how this price raising strategy is totally at odds with the notion that "Apocalypse" is the big seller. If anything, this price restructuring is going to kick Apoc in the teeth, because the price to play just went through the roof.

Hurr Hurr. Anyhow, I'll reserve judgement until after the price raise.

I'm down to my last couple of Tanks to complete my 2000 Marine army anyhow. This will be my last army for the forseeable future. I built it "on the cheap" starting by using almost everything from 2 sets of Black Reach, 1 Battle for McCragge, and 2 razorbacks I already had - maybe $150 value. (30 tacticals, terminators into assault terminators, dreadnoughts into ironclads) - To complete the army: (+whirlwind, +vindicator x2, +LRC, +3x Drop Pod, +1 box assault terminators +3 veteran sgts, +1 librarian, +1 box devestators) would cost $450 at retail.

$150 for 70% of the army. $450 for the last 30%. Made me sick really. Time for a break!

keezus wrote:I can't think how this price raising strategy is totally at odds with the notion that "Apocalypse" is the big seller. If anything, this price restructuring is going to kick Apoc in the teeth, because the price to play just went through the roof.

Hurr Hurr. Anyhow, I'll reserve judgement until after the price raise.

I'm down to my last couple of Tanks to complete my 2000 Marine army anyhow. This will be my last army for the forseeable future. I built it "on the cheap" starting by using almost everything from 2 sets of Black Reach, 1 Battle for McCragge, and 2 razorbacks I already had - maybe $150 value. (30 tacticals, terminators into assault terminators, dreadnoughts into ironclads) - To complete the army: (+whirlwind, +vindicator x2, +LRC, +3x Drop Pod, +1 box assault terminators +3 veteran sgts, +1 librarian, +1 box devestators) would cost $450 at retail.

$150 for 60% of the army. $450 for the last 40%. Made me sick really. Time for a break!

I already got my future Eldar army back when I worked for the great enemy, Now I just need to paint it.

Besides that my spending at GW is now going from 1 army a year to 2 codices and maybe an expansion if I know I'll play it, so good on ya GW you just lost $500 a year.

Yes and thats exactly why GW have become complacent in their current situation....They seem to think they are untouchable therefore can do what they like.

Which is a shame as Warhammer and LOTR are very captivating for the younger audience and easily taken advantage of. ahem...from a money point of view.... :-)

If you're so smart Shummy, and know so much, why don't you tell us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!7

I don't think I have the time to explain the intricacies of global trade, commodities pricing, fuel costs, and cost/currency inflation. Those are big subjects.

Wikipedia can though!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_deficit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_of_petroleum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Price_Index

Methinks Shummy is a first year Economics undergraduate....

Can't be certain, but something makes me feel that way.

Can't quite put my finger on it...

Blame the awesome faces. Also I'm in my third year as a graphics design new media major .



GW wants more money, and their own prices are going up. As a public company in a time of recession they are under a lot of pressure to stay viable, and the easiest way for them to do that is to rase prices slightly past the point of inflated output costs to bump up quarterly reports. They aren't the only company in the field doing this. Privateer press models are significantly more expensive then they were when I was playing the game (and even then collecting infantry was wallet suicide). Most other competitors have gone out of business.

Well, GDub has finally priced me out of my beloved hobby. Was looking forward to revamping my Empire Army with some of the new sets. $41.25 for 10 Greatswords? Almost $15 for one character from Direct Sales? Either going to find lower prices on Ebay, or the more likely route that my army is going up on it.

keezus wrote:I for one am much more liable to spend $10-20/week on Magic the Gathering opposed to $50-$70/month on a large GW kit as the $50 is beyond a preset "mental" threshold I have set for hobby spending

Really?

I'm blowing $300+ in one big buy this year, at *awesome* discount. Should keep me happy for a long time.

I think it's clearly best to look at total cost and bulk buys going forward.
____

Ravenous D wrote: Besides that my spending at GW is now going from 1 army a year to 2 codices and maybe an expansion if I know I'll play it, so good on ya GW you just lost $500 a year.

That's pretty reasonable. After all, how many armies do you really need?.
____

Le Grognard wrote:Well, GDub has finally priced me out of my beloved hobby.

Either going to find lower prices on Ebay, or the more likely route that my army is going up on it.

If you're selling on eBay, wait for the price rise to take effect, so that your army appears to be "worth" more.

Modquisition on:

Gentlemen, this thread has been reported, appropriately. As a reminder, lets all remember rule #1: be polite. Argue the points and not attack other posters.

This thread will be monitored. Posts violating Rule #1 after this warning will be dealt with more harshly.

ShumaGorath wrote:GW wants more money, and their own prices are going up. As a public company in a time of recession they are under a lot of pressure to stay viable, and the easiest way for them to do that is to rase prices slightly past the point of inflated output costs to bump up quarterly reports. They aren't the only company in the field doing this. Privateer press models are significantly more expensive then they were when I was playing the game (and even then collecting infantry was wallet suicide). Most other competitors have gone out of business.

Shummy: Every time GW raises the prices, they are banking on their perception that demand for their product is largely inelastic. As such: Those who are currently buying will either (a) continue to buy product at the same rate, at higher prices. (b) continue to buy product at the same budgeted amount, over a greater period of time.

I'm not sure that the above is true anymore, especially considering GW's targetted demographic. Kids spending is limited by parental discretion (probably diminished under the current economic climate) or limited by whatever they earn via part time jobs (availability also reduced in current economic climate). With limited-or-no money, instead of buying 0.5 tactical squads vs the 1 they used to be able to afford, they will simply buy zero. Given the choice between spending on some cheap video game, instant gratification vs saving - 9/10 they will go for the instant gratification. This is GW's own fault for targetting the portion of the population with the shortest attention span. It is ironic that the group that can sustain their price increases most easily are the group that they have endeavoured to marginalize... The GW veterans. However, even the veteran's ability to absorb price increases is limited. Some will merely stop buying and merely shift to work off their backlog. Every time GW looses a veteran buyer, they are loosing a steady stream of revenue. To make up for the lost sales, GW merely redoubles its efforts to recruit more kids to fill that void... except that kids can't afford their product anymore without parental support. This process does not appear to be sustainable.

WingWong wrote:The issue is the problem is like petrol/cigarettes/whatever (to gamers at least!).

If you are interested in the hobby you will buy the models whatever the price (within reason).

I think if the plastics are going up to £15 then this is a disgusting increase. I bought 20 Cadians for £18 about 6 months ago - now they are selling 10 for £15?/ wtf

The issue will be more of a long term thing - I rarely buy models these days as I have such a back catalogue of stuff to paint. However, when these are finished, I will just buy much cheaper stuff from other companies (which are sometimes much better scultps too). The only GW tourny I ever go to is the GT and i already have armies for this....

Long term gamers will hate GW more and more and buy less and less.. Kids will pretty much always buy the stuff.

To be honest, I am surprised another company is not targetting a similar market as GW has very little competition in the younger gaming field. I suppose it would take a massive cash influx to compete but I think they could clean up vs GWs overpriced models and systems.

Will they? Are you sure?

To Dead Memories,

Would you be so kind as to print the full content of the letter from Jervis? I think that would be very informative.

Ravenous D wrote:
As for the reason to the increase its to pay for the raises of redshirts.
.

Hmm.. that's odd. The British equivalent aren't getting a pay rise at all this year....

AFAIK the BRitish stores get their new price lists in about 1 week or so so we should start to know for sure about then.

Hope the tactical squad isn't going to £25.

ShumaGorath wrote:

If you're so smart Shummy, and know so much, why don't you tell us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!7

I don't think I have the time to explain the intricacies of global trade, commodities pricing, fuel costs, and cost/currency inflation. Those are big subjects.

Wikipedia can though!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_deficit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_of_petroleum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Price_Index

Methinks Shummy is a first year Economics undergraduate....

Can't be certain, but something makes me feel that way.

Can't quite put my finger on it...

Blame the awesome faces. Also I'm in my third year as a graphics design new media major .



GW wants more money, and their own prices are going up. As a public company in a time of recession they are under a lot of pressure to stay viable, and the easiest way for them to do that is to rase prices slightly past the point of inflated output costs to bump up quarterly reports. They aren't the only company in the field doing this. Privateer press models are significantly more expensive then they were when I was playing the game (and even then collecting infantry was wallet suicide). Most other competitors have gone out of business.

I am sure part of that is due to your cryptic posting which makes it sound like you are defending a 33% increase because it is more expensive to produce. I don't have the inclination to go read Wikipedia but you link to petroleum prices which have plummeted. You link to inflation which in the US was 4.2% and you link to CPI which if memory serves fell in 2009 which would mean things as a whole are in real terms cheaper.

Perhaps you could explain why you think GW's "own prices" (sic) which I would presume you mean costs are going up. Metal and oil prices are down. Transportation costs are down. Paper costs are down. Recessions have a downward pressure on wages so those shouldn't be rising and few commercial real estate companies are raising rents. Seriously, what on Earth makes you think they are seeing costs increase unless you mean they are scaling back and are losing those economies of scale which would only be exacerbated by GW raising prices.

Best of luck with your future in Graphic Design.

Does anyone have a compilied list of all (or most) ot the price changes? I've ony read about one or two price increases at a time, rather than looking at a whole picture, so to speak.

I don't think all the changes have been published yet.

Hi all.
I would just like to let any budding IG players , EM4 minatures have a range of plastic 'cadian like ' models 5 for £2.50
And the metal versions are £1.25 each.

Also anyone intersted in Empire troops might like to know the Perry Twins are going to release some 13th-15th century figs.

Like JJ said, if you want to leave 'GW hobby' , you dont have to give up on table top minature wargames.
What is the diffence between the GW hobby and the table top minature wargaming hobby?
The GW hobby is 2 to 25 times more expencive!(Comparing similar products.)

reds8n wrote:Hope the tactical squad isn't going to £25.

Yeah 'cause that's a 40% increase (give or take), quite a bit more than 25%.

My reaction is that I don't invest that much in new models. I liked the price developement for elite infantry units for fantasy (Grave guard for example 22.50 € for 10) but the core increase really got me by the... (almost 20€ for 10 Skeletons?). For my vampires, I only bought the army book and additional vampires from reaper. Nothing else.

If the prices will be similar for the skaven (Stormvermin for example) then i will not update my army, simple as that.

The good thing is that GW cannot outdate any of our minis, if you have them, you can play with (most) of them. And more people will.

Greets
Schepp himself

They've been cutting cost for awhile. That's the first I've heard of employee raises. Maybe you're only referring to the UK, but GW employees aren't being paid more in California, as far as I know.

They've been pitching the career oriented thing for a while, but to be honest their wages aren't competitive.

Let's say you're a red shirt and you finally make manager.
THe median salary in orange county is around the $50k mark. You'll still make a fraction of that. As an aside, I made more money on my first job than I did at GW, and every time I job hopped I made more with the exception of working for GW.

They aren't raising prices to help pay for employees. They've fired a lot of people in the last year or so, and I don't mean lowly people like red shirts.

Can anyone confirm the following:

1. Land Raider price increase - is it going up, if so, is it by 5% or 40-fething-%.
2. Sentinel price increase - as above.

Ravenous D wrote:Apparently as the rumour goes all boxes are seeing a 5-25% increase, blisters are going down and paints are going down.

As for the reason to the increase its to pay for the raises of redshirts.

GW has gotten rid of all of its part timers and have put into action a training system where the red shirts will get a raise every 3 months after completing a training session, after 2 years they will be able to manage their own store and will be making roughly $15-18/hr which is a huge increase for them.

So the moral of the story is; next time you buy a box from your LGS remember you're paying more so little jimmy ADD at the games workshop store you'll never go to is getting better service from the redshirts.

Not true at all- your confusing it with the trainee manager program...

in fact NO-ONE in the UK is getting a pay rise in line with inflation as is normal to each year- so basically the entire workforce has taken a paycut of sorts.




I've got to ask the question- how much do people really think on average GW make as a % of profit on average for their products? I know full well it is lower than alot of people know and expect-
In fact if it were much higher, GW would have been bought up by some large toy-manufacturer and churned out to the masses... instead it has been just profitable enough to run the company- and by the looks of things this price rise is to cover that- not steal tons of cash off everyone as so many people seem to like to think

NET profit rate? A mere pittance.

Tom Kirby's salary & perks are expensive, you know...

I've already posted numbers for a typical store somewhere.

I'd also like to say about the manager trainee program:
In my region in the last 5 years zero redshirts have become managers. Most eventually pass the rage, but nobody passes the orange on the first go except for favored employees. <Excuse me, favored employee. Although he failed the rage the first time, so maybe that counts as his must-fail) Of all the employees that have passed the orange, a fair number have passed white and black, but not a single one has been promoted to manager.

The manager trainee program is a crock of baloney used to sucker employees into thinking that a career at GW makes sense.

Technically if you pass the orange you're ready to start manager training. Your pay? A measly $12 an hour. You pass the white? Supposedly you move up to $15. I can count on my fingers the number of people that move up to that number.

I can also say that test results are manipulated. How they grade the practicals and how the tests are graded are very circumspect. There's definitely a lot of fishiness with the system. Also, they tell you how you do on a test, but they never release your test to you.

As far as I can tell, they deliberately fail everyone the first time they take their orange unless they really like the person.
>

For that matter, how many former employees here actually passed the orange on the first try? Or know someone who did? I want to see if my theory is correct...
Sorry, a little off topic.

As Keezus said GW is banking on the expectation that demand for their products is fairly inelastic. And with inelastic curves you either endure or get out of the market and I´m done enduring.

I play 2 (well 3) main armies and was considering starting and IG but I´m not going to pay a 25-33% increase because GW needs to paint some nice 2nd quarter earnings.
I have an almost complete Eldar count as army, mostly non-GW but I fancy the official tanks and was thinking about buying some Prisms and additional WS but I´ll get then either at a big discount dealer or ebay. After the price increase I´m not planing buying any model unless some serious reimaging goes on, so no sales from me here GW!

IG, with the new codex I was starting to get into the trench warfare thingy but the huge number of figures needed plus the 50% decrease in the box means that I´m not buying GW´s either. I got myself some HW teams last month but for the main body of my army I can get 80 old warzone plastic soldiers for the price of 10 Cadian ones and to boot I prefer the WWI Warzone gasmask look, item plus Pig Iron makes nice colonial great coat grunts. The only models I might buy from GW are tanks, but if the price goes up as the rumors suggest I´m buying WWII kits and converting them with IG bits, funny enough the market niche that GW seems to hate, from the net.

For WHFB I use undead and although from time to time I get the odd blister, my VC and Khemri armies are finished, and no, I´m not stupid enough to buy double skellies because GW decided that VC skellies must be different from the TK ones. If you belong to the player group that believes in that send me a PM, I have a bridge to sell you.

So there, I already ranted you to tears. Now do whatever you like, but remember this is a hobby not a charity, supporting GW by buying GW´s miniatures only doesn´t mean supporting your LFGS, (see http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/239838.page for more info).

M.