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Well then! I stand corrected. You must have had some very fancy tables and battles!

Gitzbitah wrote:Well then! I stand corrected. You must have had some very fancy tables and battles!

lol, the minis were nice but we didn't use terrain other than what we drew on the play mat with wet erase markers. also, i didn't realize just how much i was actually spending on d&d back in the day until i tallied it up FOR YOU, lol. i figured it was more than $100 but not that much.

I can totally relate to that. My overspending came from the Star Wars CCG. I don't think I realized how much I spent until I looked down at the 3 or 4 cubic feet of cards I owned, and realize I had bought them at 3 dollars a pack, for 15 cards. To this day, I can't put a solid number on how much I spent. Or, for that matter, how I got the money for it during high school. I must have spent every spare dollar on those things. I still can't bring myself to buy randomly packaged items.

Gitzbitah wrote:I can totally relate to that. My overspending came from the Star Wars CCG. I don't think I realized how much I spent until I looked down at the 3 or 4 cubic feet of cards I owned, and realize I had bought them at 3 dollars a pack, for 15 cards. To this day, I can't put a solid number on how much I spent. Or, for that matter, how I got the money for it during high school. I must have spent every spare dollar on those things. I still can't bring myself to buy randomly packaged items.

Ha,it's even worse for me. I must have at least 5000 yugioh cards lying around. I have no freaking idea how I got so many..I've been playing for like 9 years though, so maybe that's why...But still,have no idea. If I bought packs,that would amount to at least 900 dollars,which I find unbelievable.

DnD is not dying, it is the same as it has always been, sure their is some nerd rage about the new edition (but with new things when isnt there?). A my flgs we have a few of the obvious internet trolls who are always ranting about how 3.5 is the best and they still play it and that 4edition is crap. These people are entitled to their opinion but as far as I can see since 4th edition the number of D&D players in my area has tripled and looks to be doing just fine to me.

Alpharius wrote:The hobbies that most of us have chosen are certainly 'misunderstood' at best.

I think we all knew, either at 'sign on' or shortly thereafter, that we were going to have to tolerate a certain amount of ridicule and/or scorn.

Happily, I don't think most of us care!

Pretty much. It comes with most tabletop battles/RPG games. Life's too short to let people hold you back from what you enjoy. On the 4th edition DnD. Its not my favorite but its certainly not unpopular. Whilst at same time I have friends who are pretty much boycotting it for their campaigns and using 3.5 due to personal preference. Whilst the rulebooks are available in even small branches of nationwide book retailers ( on several continents ) it would be hard to see any argument that the games dieing. As long as people play and enjoy any game it will live forever.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I find it hard to believe that cristians actually believe in some of the things they say. sometimes I just think they try to start trouble....D&D?Satanic? Do they complain about 40k because it's spreading the emperor's god-like influence and faith? gawd I'm glad organized religion isn't part of my life....

Yeah how about you not pigeon hole all Christians into a neat little stereotype that you yourself are accusing them of doing to others. Most like myself don't think DnD is satanic.

I have never played a game of DnD. Mostly because my dad would always say "Oh sure, lets play that Warhammer version, we have models for that" we bought the book, and we played for like an hour, and never again. I just don't have the people, and my FLGS is filled with wackos with really dumb rules.

However, having played DnD:Online, and reading Order of the Stick, I really want to play a game of it, and even had one of my book/game/comic/whatever ideas converted into a DnD style game format for a while.

Anyway, I don't know if it's dying, but I want to give it CPR if it is.

Careful, it isn't the hot Elf chick in a chain-mail bikini, it is probably closer to the hygienically challenged raving lunatic dwarf passed out in the corner of the Inn...

Alpharius wrote:Careful, it isn't the hot Elf chick in a chain-mail bikini, it is probably closer to the hygienically challenged raving lunatic dwarf passed out in the corner of the Inn...

Meh, if it needs savins, it needs savins.

Slarg232 wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Careful, it isn't the hot Elf chick in a chain-mail bikini, it is probably closer to the hygienically challenged raving lunatic dwarf passed out in the corner of the Inn...

Meh, if it needs savins, it needs savins.

I applaud your altruism!

And grant you a 1000 xp bonus!

to get back to the original point of this thread (not that i mind talking about chainmail bikini women but the thread needs pics, not posts!).... apparently wotc announced a new line of D&D essentials products which will be fundamentally changing 4e. while wotc is quick to call it 4e Essentials and simply a new direction 100% compatible with 4e, plenty of fans are calling it 4.5 as the core rules are being changed as well as the class structure from this point on. apparently, they're trying to differentiate the classes more so that they don't all play so similarly and are possibly getting rid of daily powers in some of the class builds. they've also stated that all their new products will be in the "essentials" format from that point on. you'll still be able to play your 2008 PHB1 fighter but he won't look like any of the new NPCs.

warboss wrote:to get back to the original point of this thread (not that i mind talking about chainmail bikini women but the thread needs pics, not posts!).... apparently wotc announced a new line of D&D essentials products which will be fundamentally changing 4e. while wotc is quick to call it 4e Essentials and simply a new direction 100% compatible with 4e, plenty of fans are calling it 4.5 as the core rules are being changed as well as the class structure from this point on. apparently, they're trying to differentiate the classes more so that they don't all play so similarly and are possibly getting rid of daily powers in some of the class builds. they've also stated that all their new products will be in the "essentials" format from that point on. you'll still be able to play your 2008 PHB1 fighter but he won't look like any of the new NPCs.

That's pretty much the reason why I've gotten away from WotC rpg's in general. They spam out new edition after new edition so quickly,it's ridiculous. Their rpg books literally only have about a 2 year life cycle,anymore. The last WotC book I bought new was Star Wars Revised. Of course,you can always just play using the old books,but in any gaming group,you usually have half to 3/4 of the players that want to play the new edition. Plus,it's kind of a crappy thing to play an OOP game in your FLGS,as the main reason they have play areas is that it's advertising for the product they're trying to sell.

Money grab alert!

And:

^thank you *wips tears* you dont no how greatly this has restored my faith in humanity and dnd.

I've been playing since AD&D and 4th was by far the worst thing to happen to the game. It has become a tabletop mmo wargamethat is not as good as warhammer or as diverse as hordes, and is basically a dumbed down version of the game. Yep also the one thing the defenders of the fourth cannot deny is how bad it sucks that it is not open sourced like 3.0/3.5

happydude wrote:I've been playing since AD&D and 4th was by far the worst thing to happen to the game.

happydude wrote:It has become a tabletop mmo wargamethat

1. Dungeuns and Dragons started it's life as a rules for miniatures. Miniatures for fantasy gaming have been around longer than 4th Edition.

2. MMO's are just computer versions of D&D. Next you'll say that Starcraft totally ripped off 40k.

happydude wrote:is not as good as warhammer or as diverse as hordes, and is basically a dumbed down version of the game.

Compare apples and oranges often or is this just a one time thing?

Ahtman wrote:

happydude wrote:I've been playing since AD&D and 4th was by far the worst thing to happen to the game.

happydude wrote:It has become a tabletop mmo wargamethat

1. Dungeuns and Dragons started it's life as a rules for miniatures. Miniatures for fantasy gaming have been around longer than 4th Edition.

2. MMO's are just computer versions of D&D. Next you'll say that Starcraft totally ripped off 40k.

happydude wrote:is not as good as warhammer or as diverse as hordes, and is basically a dumbed down version of the game.

Compare apples and oranges often or is this just a one time thing?

Failed troll has failed

1. What it started as has nothing to do with the ROLEPLAYING game it became... moot point

2. MMO's are fast paced electronic versions of roleplaying games and are simplified and fast paced with little to no roleplaying (unless on a RP server)


Apples to oranges? Lol nice try

D&D Is about diversity and a plethora of options and opportunities and to build them up so high(3.5) just to knowck them back down(4th) is a waste of time unless you are looking at this from their point of view and considering the economics behind marketing to a wider array of gamers by dumbing it down. Gary Gygax is rolling in his grave (no pun intended)

happydude wrote:
Failed troll has failed

Really? That is the best you can muster? You, the one who roles in acting like your opinion is fact and that your own personal biases and experiences are somehow universal? I'm sorry you can't have fun with 4th, but I know many more that do. Many of whom play both 4th and 3.5. It is possible to enjoy both; this really isn't an either/or situation. The fact that fourth is doing well isn't exactly a good sign that the game is as awful as you state. Just because something isn't to your tastes doesn't make it bad, it just means it isn't to your tastes. And if you can't understand why comparing a tabletop RPG to a Miniatures wargame isn't a fair comparison, or understand the history of gaming and how it has evolved, well there really isn't much I can do to help you.

Ahtman wrote:

happydude wrote:
Failed troll has failed

Really? That is the best you can muster? You, the one who rolls in acting like your opinion is fact and that your own personal biases and experiences are somehow universal? I'm sorry you can't have fun with 4th, but I know many more that do. Many of whom play both 4th and 3.5. It is possible to enjoy both, this really isn't an either or situation. The fact that fourth is doing well isn't exactly a good sign that the game is as awful as you state. Just because something isn't to your tastes doesn't make it bad, it just means it isn't to your tastes. And if you can't understand why comparing a tabletop RPG to a Miniatures wargame isn't a fair comparison or understand the history of gaming, well there really isn't much I can do to help you.

Again failed troll has failed

I state what it is, which is a dumbed down version of 3.5

I am glad people you know enjoy 4th, this keeps WotC in business

4th has a new fanbase and about 35-40% of the older players attempting it, however no one i know who has played from AD&D on enjoys it

A tabletop rpg in comparison to a mini's wargame?? It is a perfect comparison because that is what 4th edition has become in its entirety!

You may enjoy it and others will as well but you cannot fight the fact that it is simply D&D basic all over again. Defend it all you will, but it is what it is.

It is not the worst thing out there, far from it. But when comparing the two there is no comparison. Some of us enjoy complexity while others enjoy simplicity.

If you're a casual here and there gamer then sure 4th is for you and more power to you

But for those of us who have enjoyed this game from way back when it is not our cup of tea and to us it indeed is D&D For Dummies.

May you prevail on your quest for 4th edition virtue though, something tells me you would make a grand paladin!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway I must retire for the night and that will prevent this from getting out of hand anyway. Play what you choose to play, no one is telling you not to. Take care Grand Paladin of 4th!

See I told you you were hopeless. I shouldn't respond more as there really isn't much point in arguing with a brick wall. You have made up your mind and you have confused your opinions to be more that that. You have converted your personal experiences into universal ones and take them as some sort of gospel. For instance you say you know no one that played from AD&D on that enjoys except you are talking to someone who played First Edition on and enjoys it. I know other people that counter your point as well.

I have spoken with Gary Gygax on two seperate occasions and have shared a room with Dave Arneson at a con and I can tell you that your belief that either would be spinning in thier grave is a as far from the truth as one could be. Mr. Gygax would happy to see the hobby continuing on and all the new people that are coming into it.

Ahtman wrote:See I told you you were hopeless. I shouldn't respond more as there really isn't much point in arguing with a brick wall. You have made up your mind and you have confused your opinions to be more that that. You have converted your personal experiences into universal ones and take them as some sort of gospel. For instance you say you know no one that played from AD&D on that enjoys except you are talking to someone who played First Edition on and enjoys it. I know other people that counter your point as well.

I have spoken with Gary Gygax on two seperate occasions and have shared a room with Dave Arneson at a con and I can tell you that your belief that either would be spinning in thier grave is a as far from the truth as one could be. Mr. Gygax would happy to see the hobby continuing on and all the new people that are coming into it.

OMG THE KING OF ALL GEEKS TALKED TO GARY GYGAX!!!!

I'm sorry do you as well speak for all D&D players? You are speaking the same way and fail to realize that.

Buddy listen to my words because you are obviously dense

No one I KNOW

Do I know you? Do I know the rest of your "people"

No

I said PEOPLE I KNOW

Gary OBVIOUSLY wouldn't say anything against it at the time because HIS WALLET WAS LINED WITH THEIR GOLD

sheesh... and I'M the dense one?

FAILED TROLL HAS FAILED... Yet again... It's ok though I still love you


Automatically Appended Next Post:

happydude wrote:

Ahtman wrote:See I told you you were hopeless. I shouldn't respond more as there really isn't much point in arguing with a brick wall. You have made up your mind and you have confused your opinions to be more that that. You have converted your personal experiences into universal ones and take them as some sort of gospel. For instance you say you know no one that played from AD&D on that enjoys except you are talking to someone who played First Edition on and enjoys it. I know other people that counter your point as well.

I have spoken with Gary Gygax on two seperate occasions and have shared a room with Dave Arneson at a con and I can tell you that your belief that either would be spinning in thier grave is a as far from the truth as one could be. Mr. Gygax would happy to see the hobby continuing on and all the new people that are coming into it.

OMG THE KING OF ALL GEEKS TALKED TO GARY GYGAX!!!!

I'm sorry do you as well speak for all D&D players? You are speaking the same way and fail to realize that.

Buddy listen to my words because you are obviously dense

No one I KNOW

Do I know you? Do I know the rest of your "people"

No

I said PEOPLE I KNOW

Gary OBVIOUSLY wouldn't say anything against it at the time because HIS WALLET WAS LINED WITH THEIR GOLD

sheesh... and I'M the dense one?

FAILED TROLL HAS FAILED... Yet again... It's ok though I still love you

also...LMFAO at the quote you display and then rag on me for a strong opinion LMFAO LMFAO LMFAO... ahem... but I still love you just the same *pats head*


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway lets stop this sh*t before we get banned. So I'll agree to disagree. Sound fair? *hugs pally*

begun... the edition wars have.

As I stated earller, How old is D&D and it is only on 4th. I think that is a prety record.

..a few posts back there was a suggestion about people stopping calling each other names and bickering in a thoroughly pointless manner. That's good advice. Really.

You might not like the current edition -- and it certainly has its critics -- but it appears to be selling well enough that it's still the top selling RPG in the UK and NA for..hmm.. pretty much since it came out.Every quarter. They're doing something right.

reds8n wrote:..a few posts back there was a suggestion about people stopping calling each other names and bickering in a thoroughly pointless manner. That's good advice. Really.

You might not like the current edition -- and it certainly has its critics -- but it appears to be selling well enough that it's still the top selling RPG in the UK and NA for..hmm.. pretty much since it came out.Every quarter. They're doing something right.

Just like the iPhone

Anpu42 wrote:As I stated earller, How old is D&D and it is only on 4th. I think that is a prety record.

Well,not really. There were a total of of 5 different editions of D&D and 3 different editions of AD&D before WotC bought out TSR in 2000 and released D&D 3.0,3.5,and 4.0,with 4.5 in the pipe,now. The first game was D&D,and then they started releasing D&D as a simplified game on it's own alongside AD&D. So,11 editions in 36 years of existance basically means a new edition every 3 1/2 years.

Alpharius wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Careful, it isn't the hot Elf chick in a chain-mail bikini, it is probably closer to the hygienically challenged raving lunatic dwarf passed out in the corner of the Inn...

Meh, if it needs savins, it needs savins.

I applaud your altruism!

And grant you a 1000 xp bonus!

SWEET! Besides, you know what they say about Dwarves, save them once and they owe you a debt of gratitude. That bikini elf will only make me burn with desire for one night.... and after that probably just make me burn

Alpharius wrote:Money grab alert!

And:

What does it say about me that I think the first one is hotter?

It says that you are an intelligent, discerning individual with good taste!

(And yes, I agree with you!)

I only included the 2nd pic as it was the stereotypical 'chain-mail bikini' girl.

RPGs are what you make them. I cringed when I looked over the 4th edition rules, but when I ran a group of six through a campaign (two of whom were new to roleplaying and two more being new to D&D but had played Shadowrun, etc.) it went fine.

It's not what it used to be and never will be again, but roleplaying won't die. D&D is so much more than a brand name that belongs to whoever could pay the most for it. It's an experience that changes based on who you're playing it with, and that's so much more than the rules used to hold it together. Suspension of disbelief is the main challenge DMs have to tackle, and if you can do it, the metagame barely matters.

Besides, I still have my 1st edition source books if I want to go back to them. Some people have retro Playboy rags... but you can't get a Gygax nerdgasm anywhere else.

Edit: I might note that I've observed my style of DMing is quite different to most of the people I've played 'under'. I provide maps and other such flavour material but try to de-emphasize the focus on miniatures. In my most recent campaign, and due to the fact that 4th edition rules were being used, this was almost impossible and that's the main problem I have with it.