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waasssdddd wrote:you are aware that you will rarely have to make an inv. throw with a 2+ save?

...really? What armies do you fight? Most armies will be packing plenty of AP2, 1, and power weapons. Lascannons, plasma guns, plasma cannons, meltaguns, brightlances (ap2, right?)...there's a lot out there.

I run 1xLC and 4x TH/SS (storm shield gives the 3++ invuln @ above poster). A libby with avenger/nullzone rolls with them in their LRC. that way, i get 3 PW attacks and 4 LC attacks at I4 on the assault, and still have 12 TH attacks coming at I1. This unit is great for destroying Nobs (which I see alot of), opposing terminators, MCs. It is even decent against light/medium infantry as I can use avenger to thin their numbers if needed - provided I wont be removing the target from assault range of course.

I personally go 3 Twin LC and 2 TH/SS. This gives me defencive power against lascannons and plasma guns while also giving me that awesome chopping power of LC. Add in a Chaplain and you're ready to go!

I personally use 3 LC and 3 TH/SS plus a Termie Chaplain in a LRC. This is pretty much boss against anything you go up against. I like the Libby as an HQ choice also, I have never tried it though. I really like my termies kitted this way. They tear through a horde like no other, and have plenty of attacks to kill off MCs and vehicles, and other things like that. Not to mention the 3 SS really gives them survivability also. This unit is meant to assault the strongest part of an opponents force and tear it down. If you decapitate the beast, the rest of the army will fall apart!

TH/SS in conjunction with Null Zone and (if you're feeling expensive) Liturgies of Battle is the bees knees.

Overall TH/SS is more durable and flexible, while LC are really anti mass infantry only IMO

Why would you use termies for anti infatry? Im not sure about you but I have bolters and flamers in my army that can deal with GEQ. Terminators should be used against MC and other types of death stars. Against those targets the LC termies doesnt hold a candle to TH/SS termies.

Then the question becomes "why take Lightning Claws at all" if you aren't sending Terminators against infantry.

If you're going against hoardes then i'd probably suggest Lightning Claws for the following reasons:
Terminators get to hit first instead of having to weather being attacked first.
They get to reroll wounds so more casualties inflicted (hopefully) in a single round of cc.
More attacks because of using twin weapons.

Corennus wrote:Then the question becomes "why take Lightning Claws at all" if you aren't sending Terminators against infantry.

If you're going against hoardes then i'd probably suggest Lightning Claws for the following reasons:
Terminators get to hit first instead of having to weather being attacked first.
They get to reroll wounds so more casualties inflicted (hopefully) in a single round of cc.
More attacks because of using twin weapons.

And the answer to that is that "you shouldnt be taking LCs at all". If you are taking assault terminators for the purpose of taking out GEQ than you are doing something terribly wrong.

*Disclamer* This is for Vanilla Marines

Not everyone in my neck of the woods is running Nob Bikers, Eldar Seer consuls, Thunderwolf Cav, or whatever is the new internet deathstar flavor of the month is. So yes there are times when my Assault Terminators are just attacking MEQ, GEQ, or Hordes. In those cases a couple pair of Lightning claws can win you a combat that would normally drag you down and tie you up. Just because something doesn't work for you in your metagame doesn't mean it's a bad tactic, list, or strategy.

Hell I use Assault Marines you know the ones with the Jumppacks (gasp) and they rock in my FLGS

Assault marines in enough quantities can seriously rock. Especially with chaplains (if your points are high enough to take 2)

If i'm running an assault squad best combo I find is:
Sergeant w/ Twin LCs
x 2 Flamers

230 points

Add a chaplain with digi weapons and jump pack (125 points) and you're REALLY cooking.

And two squads of that is REALLY nasty.
for just 710 points lol.

Best for 2000 + point games

but all TH/SS lacks the attacks to kill any squad larger than 5 models.

waasssdddd wrote:but all TH/SS lacks the attacks to kill any squad larger than 5 models.

with 15 attacks on the charge they can most certainly kill more than 5 models...a LC squad would have 20. vs MEQ 5 TH/SS termies would on average kill 6 ish MEQs (taking into account that you strike at i1) on the charge where as LC termies would kill 7,5. The MEQs would then break from combat and your LC termies would most likely recieve some hot and heavy plasma loving...
Id much rather kill one less mech and ID the crap out of Nobz, wound MCs on twos and have a 3++ save vs any scary opponent than kill an extra 1.5 or so MEQ for the times when my opponent doesnt field any scary units. Not to mention I can actually treathen armour with TH/SS termies. Never take more than 1 LC termie.

i'd go 3 TH/SS 2 LC.

The generic combo.

You could do two squads with 3 TH/SS & 2 LC for high toughness character hunting, and 3 LC/2 TH/SS for infantry/elite hunting.

yeah, i get it now...ish. the assaulties are ment for instakillin' da tuff stuff

I run 5X hammers in a LRR but that is because I have Vulkan as HQ so the claws don't benefit from any rerolls to hit unless I also take a chappy, which I don't have pts for in my competitive salamanders list.

When I run a chappy I like to go 4X LC's and 3X Hammers in a LRC for some serious killing power.

That's a good set up.
Ultimate still is Chaplain, Librarian and 6 Terminators in a Crusader with TH/SS

I definately don't agree that the only way to build these guys is all TH/SS. The LCs are there to get I4 attacks and clean out some numbers so you don't have to weather lots of attacks, and have to make numerous saves. That is the weakness of terminators. Loads of saves. They are easier with the 3++ with the SS, but why not cut the number you have to take in half(at least) and go from there. A couple of LCs really help you to keep from gettin tar pitted, and can still put woulds on bigger stuff cause you getta reroll the wounds.

I used to run 2x LC and 3x TH/SS, but I found against MCs you were lucky to get 1 wound through with lightning claws. Thats why I changed to 4TH + 1 LC. Still get attacks at I4 and can give extra saves to the LC model to try and prevent losses of your I1 striking models before you get there. I really like the 4:1 ratio when you include an IC for some additional higher I attacks.

That seems like it would work. Especially with an IC. I just really don't like putting all eggs in the TH/SS basket.

Vulkan usually can get enough kills to keep some attacks off the termies before they strike.

Unless he's assaulted by an Emperor's Champion which has same Initiative as him and he fails all his Inv Saves......

LOL, it does happen, but for what I do Vulkan can get the job done before my termies strike. Not to mention it will be pretty hard for vulkan to fail all his invulns thanks to a nice 3+.

I have never used Vulkan, seems like it would be pretty hot, though. U can use him with Power Fist, or Relic Blade, right?

nope only Thunder Hammers become Master Crafted.

Nope, his wargear is as follows: Master Crafted relic blade, arm mounted heavy flamer (that is TL because of his army changing rule!), digital weapons, some named cloak that gives him a 3+ invuln, and artificer armor. Just him and the wargear by itself is worth his points. Throw in that he TL's all meltas, MM's, flamers, HF's, and master crafts thunder hammers, I would say he is a great deal!

Speaking of Vulkan, I need to upload my new pics of him. I just repainted him! He looks better than the paintjob in my avatar.

Any captain can stand as a proxy for Vulkan, even with different armament.
But if you take Vulkan then in your list his armament is as Pdawg described above.

For sheer giving your Terminators an edge and your tactical squads a chance he is the best HQ.
Just make sure you're lucky on your invulnerables. 3 wounds can disappear in no time if you're up against an opponent dishing out a lot of power weapon attacks

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:Why are we talking about Terminators charging freakin' GROTS of all things? If ANY SM player does that he deserves an almight slap.

Anyway.

A mixture of 2 LC to 3 TH/SS is the ideal compilation. This grants you the flexiblity (which is what Marines are all about) to deal with numerous potential threats that your opponent may present.

Ailaros; LC are NOT bolters. Why you are comparing the two is utterly baffling.

And just for the record, LC aren't supposed to be good against hordes. They're supposed to be used against MEQ, which is something that they are good at.

L. Wrex

I agree that a couple LC's keep a player from thinking that maybe a few "free hits" may be worth it for killing a few expensive TH/SS before they can hit back. I use this combo only if I walk these guys in to lend some heavy support/defense. The meat and potatoes of the group is the hammers to blow the heck out of the really hard to kill stuff bolters just can't touch.

If I throw them into a Land Raider I go all hammers since as stated earlier: I can pick and choose my combats (usually). Some leader would be attached to them normally and with their high initiative, why waste it with a hammer or power fist, really?

If I beam them in (pucker up boys) a little more flexibility is needed since they are stuck there for the duration (can they really catch anyone? really?, I beam-in and do nothing, this is your cue to run and get your guns fired up) and make a fine target to shoot at. I really see no use for AT's then but normal termies have the right tools for the job; beam in, shoot a hail of shots, hang-out, shoot again and start advancing causing everyone to get nervous.

oooohhh, I was thinking that the gauntlet was also a power fist.My bad

I can at least tell you this much. If you are running vanilla codex, then do not go all LC's. You need at least a few 3++ saves for those AP1,2, and PW attacks. All LC's is something made for the BA codex with Sanguinary Priests.