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You know, termies are ment for elite killing not munching trough guardsmen. you can tank shock right trough'em and assault the command instantly

TH/SS terminators arn't meant for munching through IG.

LC terminators are.

5 TH terminators get 15 attacks on the charge.

5 LC terminators get 20 attacks on the charge.


LCs have better chance of killing IG. rerollable 3s is better then 2+ to wound.

now if there are power weapons in the squad then a couple of THs will be valuable as you will want that 3++.


if there is a chaplain with the LC terminators thn the guard better have more then 20 men in their unit because rerolling hits AND wounds is brutal.

5 LC terminators will, statistically, kill 2 Carnifexs on the charge.

Depends on the enemy Templar.

Against Tyranids i'd suggest TH/SS

Eldar.....(unless it's banshees) LC

IG should be LC

SM & CSM TH/SS

Tau......TH/SS

Necrons......TH/SS

@ Grey Templar:

Terminators on Fex:

20 * (4/6) * (1/6 +( 5/6 * 1/6)) = 80/6*(11/36) =880/216 ~4 wounds.

LC terminators will average just over 4 wounds when assaulting a carnifex. Since a carnifex has 4 wounds, that is an average of 1 carnifex kill on the assault. That is half the value you stated.

TH math on carnifex:

16 * (4/6) * (5/6) = 320 / 36 ~ 9 wounds.

Its the thunder hammers that will average 2 carnifex kills.

I've been running 4x LC 1x TH/SS for some while now, and they absolutely slaughter. I play as BT though, so my SS sucks, and I get FC AND preferred enemy. S5 I5 reroll everything? Yes please.

see, TH/SS are best at more armies (only one is clearly ment for LC). And IG can be all-but wiped-out with a couple of well placed pie-plates by a pussy whirlwind crew hiding behind a building.

ted...

I listed things that had initiative 4 or less and power weapons. If you look only at things that have initiative 4 or less it's the vast majority of models in the game, so again, we are not dealing with an abnormal, special, or in any way unusual situation. A terminator striking at initiative 1 has a chance, however small, of getting wiped out before swinging; a terminator at initiative 4 will almost always swing, whether he lives or dies. The lightning claw is about as effective as the thundher hammer against toughness 4 and more effective against toughness 3, and these are, again, the vast majority of models in the game. The lightning claw guy is more aggressive and has better damage potential for these reasons, leaving the 3++ as the only selling point of the thunderhammer terminator. It's good so I advocate taking some of these guys, but killing the enemy is a more effective way of preventing wounds than 2+/3++ saves, hence the lightning claw guys are in.

Some init 5 models got into my list. My mistake. I took those things out here's the revised list. Like I said if I just make it initiative 4 or less it's almost every unit in the game.

guard officers, commisars, assault terminators, command squads, librarians, lysander, terminators, wolf guard, logan, belial, deathwing terminators, death company, chosen, lords, sorcerer, blood crushers, blood letters, blood thirster, great unclean one, lord of change, burna boyz, canonness, arco flagelants, grey knight terminators, demon hosts, inquisitors......
AF

Lol abaddon. I saw that.

lol. shhhhhh

Both calgar and Cato are I5. Cato has only a power weapon, so is always I5 and calgar has both fist and sword, so can strike at I5 or I1.

uuuuuhhh. Cagar's Pimp gloves strike at I5

ok. fixed. it's still alot of frikkin models that's my point.


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including, importantly, terminators, which are by no means a rare sight in this game....

Half of your "revised" list still has I5 or atleast FC...the other half is either TEQ or pretty much useless in CC...

well ted, is fighting terminators a special situation?

Grey Templar wrote:uuuuuhhh. Cagar's Pimp gloves strike at I5

No they don't. They strike at I1. He also carries a power sword so can use it to hit at I5 if he wants, but otherwise he has no special rule allowing him to hit at I5 with his pimp gloves.

@ Abaddon: When you give examples to prove a point, make sure your examples are accurate. Otherwise it just looks like you don't know what you're talking about.

Although you are correct, a mix is best for multiple reasons. The primary one is the thin numbers. The 2nd is so that you can allocate non-power weapon attacks onto the lightning claw. Since it already struck, you are trying to reduce the chance you get any dead TH models before they strike so that you get all the attacks you can out of your squad.

edit: In some situations you might even want to allocate power weapon attacks to the LC model, depending on how many wounds you need to allocate. If you are going to have to put 1 on the LC model anyways, you might as well stack as many as you can on him.

I would say that Vanilla Termies with LCs are quite rare. BA and BT termies have FC so will rape Vanilla LC termies either way (and kill each other if the vanilla marines charge and the BA/BT termies happen to be out of cover)

tedurur wrote:I would say that Vanilla Termies with LCs are quite rare. BA and BT termies have FC so will rape Vanilla LC termies either way (and kill each other if the vanilla marines charge and the BA/BT termies happen to be out of cover)

Why does cover matter? Aren't your terminators charging from an LRC, thus having frag grenades?


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Vanilla marines favor TH/SS, but still should put in 1 LC in a 5 man unit with IC attached.

If C:SM takes Vulkan, then all TH/SS.

As I said before, 1 LC might be a good idea simply for the wound allocation shenaningans


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Dracos wrote:

tedurur wrote:I would say that Vanilla Termies with LCs are quite rare. BA and BT termies have FC so will rape Vanilla LC termies either way (and kill each other if the vanilla marines charge and the BA/BT termies happen to be out of cover)

Why does cover matter? Aren't your terminators charging from an LRC, thus having frag grenades?


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Vanilla marines favor TH/SS, but still should put in 1 LC in a 5 man unit with IC attached.

If C:SM takes Vulkan, then all TH/SS.

They are indeed hopefully doing so

i use a ten man squad in large games and use half and half its really good!

wuestenfux wrote:Well, all my Assault Termies have the th/ss combo;
storm shields soak up wounds so that the squad stays intact before it strikes back.

Yep that's what I usually do as well.

I usually run 3 LC and 2 TH/SS. They accompany Lysander in a Redeemer or vanilla Land Raider. It is really like 3 TH/SS and 3 LC. 9 out of 10 times, anything that squad touches dies horribly.

That said, mixed is best. Thunderhammers are great for killing big things and soaking up armor-ignoring shots, while lightning claws mulch infantry. Run with Vulkan, Lysander or Pedro Kantor, and you see them go through the roof in how powerful they can be.

I run 2 claws and 3 TH/SS

That is the generic combo. but i would like you to write an explanation next to your combo, otherwise you're no help whatsoever (that goes for everyone).

I know I got some Templar brothers in here who can vouch for the weak SS that our Termies are running with, so that being the case I just load up on those LC and run them around in the LRC having all sorts of fun.

I currently have eight Dark Angels Deathwing Termnator Squads, with two of them built for close combat/assault.

Assault #1 has the Sgt with a power sword and Storm Bolter, a PF/Heavy Flamer, 1 TH/SS, and 2 LC.

Assault #2 has 3 TH/SS with one of them the Sgt., 1 LC, and a PF/Heavy Flamer.

From using them, I like the TH/SS better then the LC since I have faced Tyranids more then any other faction.

How about if my Terminators come with Shrike, LC or TH/SS or what mix?

You would waste a perfectly good jump pack, plus, joining non termie units with termies seems kinda dumb