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On assault terminators, wich work better, and against what kind of enemy (TEQ, MEQ. GEQ)

Well, all my Assault Termies have the th/ss combo;
storm shields soak up wounds so that the squad stays intact before it strikes back.

The ones I play against usually have a mix. LCs to thin the ranks, TH/SS to finish them off. The wound distribution depends on initiative order, what remains needing to be killed, and strength of the attack.

What Skarboy said. I hate seeing a mix across the table. If they are only TH/SS a dedicated assualt unit can usually kill a few before they swing and lop 6-9 attacks off their total. If they are all dual LC some plasma lovin is comin their way. A mix ... neither works well as the TH soak up the ap2 hits and theLC thin the ranks becasue if you go before init 5 TH/SS are taking the wounds, and if you go at init 4 or less you are in for a seriuos hurting at both init 4 and init 1. Untis of 7 + character(vulcan, cassius, etc) seem to rock face and take names. If they get to the middle of the board ... it takes your whole army to knock them out, if you have a whole army left by that point that is...

I tend to run all SS/TH, but I play against a lot of Eldar, which means the I is rarely an issue for me anyway.

I have a huge unit of 10, 5x with TH/SS and 5x w/LCs. When they combat squad, they are always mixed. Generally, if I was to use a 5 man group, I would usually take 3 TH/SS and 2 2xLCs.

I usually do a six man squad 3 with lighten claws and 3with hammer and SS, its give me balance on what i want to do and also provided me with some ap 2 protections on the way there....lo.l

I was just pondering this. I have a box of Assault Termies sitting in my hobby drawer waiting to be built right now. I am going to magnetize those suckers up so I can do either, but my initial inclination was to use 4x LC and 1x TH/SS.

Isn't it much better to do 3 TH/SS and 2 LC?

Maybe. I guess i'll find out soon.

True. i don't have any exp. about them anyway, i just have the rulebook and codex, so you're quite possibly right

definitely 3x hammer 2x claw.

A mix, leaning heavily on the TH/SS side (so like 4/3 or 5/2, etc) is pretty good with any of the new marine codicies.

If you're running old marines like DA or BT, then take more LCs. 4+ Invul in CC only is kind of laughable compared to the perma 3+ invul. Though still nice I suppose.

3+ is awesome. especially with an enemy with lots of ap 2+ it makes taking a beating from heavy weapons much esier to survive

My default load is 3 TH/SS and 2 LC. Keeps options open and gives a chance to play with wound allocation. Full "hammer time" comes into question when facing an enemy with lots of available AP 1 or 2 weapons ( IG guns and Tyranid monsters ).

TH/SS

What are LC's primarily good against? Light infantry. What else is good against light infantry? Oh, right, all those frikkin' bolters you brought with you.

The point of terminators isnt' their damage output (as you could put out a lot more damage for the same amount of points by taking other things in your list), it is that they're neigh-on indestructible. They deepstrike on an objective and then laugh as your opponents attempt to dislodge them. What helps with this? Storm Shields.

With LCs you're taking your best objective camping units and forcing them to run around and chase bolter fodder. With the TH/SS they are more durable and able to handle the things that bolters can't.

In recent battles against I'v had against terminator heavy lists is that the landraider dwelling terminators usually have more LC's and the foot sloggers have More TH/SS

The landraider LC terminators can ride up to a big unit of troops and intercept them without suffering their charge and then after causing carnage can hop back into the LR and repeat. The foot slogging TH/SS cn saunter through enemy fire and cause anarchy with there tanks and elite infantry.

I like LC's but I run with a Preist for FC, and run them in a Landraider so the Plasma does nothing to me.

TH/SS Termies

Have a read of this battle report http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/292407.page

Extract below

The Imperial Terminator saving rolls really were outstanding, shrugging off multiple Lascannon, Demon Weapon and Noise Marine weapon hits turn after turn. At a quick count, the 5 man Assault Terminator squad + Terminator Librarian faced down:

3 force weapon wounds
6 normal close combat wounds
1 power weapon wound
4 lascannon wounds
4 plasma cannon wounds
1 blastmaster wound
4 sonic blaster wounds (one fail)
2 demon weapon wounds (Librarian fails his 5+)

For the loss of 1 Marine and the Librarian. Lesson here is take the Storm Shield for the Librarian!

My favourite is TH and SS, but I someitmes include Lightning claws.

I have a heavy weapon in all of my squads though

In my experience mix squads benefit from the space marine's ultimate ability, being able to do multiple jobs. Ya so what if you have a 3+ invo, fodder fire makes you take saves just like any other terminator, and if the people I play with see 3+ invo they just use mass fire to kill, therefore ignoring any bonus of the SS.

Plus I do have a tendency to put them in a crusader (for the frag bonus), so there is not much of a need for SS there.

One of the things that hasn't been mentioned here is that LC terminators are terribly inefficient at what they do. I mean, how many grots do you need to kill to make their points back?

Add to this the fact that LCs are redundant given all those bolters, and the killing power of LCs look rather unimpressive. As such, if you're spending all those points for something that is very hard to kill, but doesn't do that much damage, why not make it even HARDER to kill and let the damage to hordes be handled elsewhere?

Under the same circumstances, how many grots do TH/SS guys have to kill? And even better, how long do THEY stay locked in that combat?

LCs do very well if you take into account that they do re-roll failed wounds in CC, and can there-fore actually hurt the MCs. Yes, I know they can't hurt C'Tan/Wraithlords/Dreads, but that is why you mix, so that you dont get bogged by hordes, nor do you get overpowered by the big stuff.

Like I mentioned earlier, balancing is key, you cant kill a green tide with just lascannons can you, nor can you kill land raider spam with just heavy bolters either. So in the end I'm not saying either one is better than the other, just that combined they are better than they are seperate.

When you don't know what your facing I use a 3 TH/SS 2 LC combo. Nothing worse taking all TH's and getting tarpitted in a mob of Ork boyz. Also don't forget those LC's are power weapons that get to re-roll to wound they are perfect for cutting down MEQ.

braindeadmonkey wrote:Under the same circumstances, how many grots do TH/SS guys have to kill?

Yes, they're both bad against hordes. The difference is that THSS isn't SUPPOSED to be good against hordes, while LC's are. In the end, LCs sacrifice survivability and the ability to kill vehicles just so that they can be less worse at a job that they're still bad at (pointswise).

General_Chaos wrote:Nothing worse taking all TH's and getting tarpitted in a mob of Ork boyz.

braindeadmonkey wrote:And even better, how long do THEY stay locked in that combat?

Right, but if you're tarpitted on an objective, then why does it matter? The whole point was to camp on an objective anyways, why is mobility important? Plus, given their ability to deepstrike or ride in a raider, terminators shouldn't be getting into close combat until they WANT to get into close combat.

Ailaros wrote:blah blah blah

if all TH/SS works for you then, Rock on little soldier.

Okay, so fine, lets survive (not trying to be rude here).

Being curious though Ailaros, if gaunts with furious charge, 4+ poisoned weapons charged you after you got hit with paroxysm, how would you survive? They hit on 3+, re-roll 4+ wounds, and dont ignore your armor, negating the benefit of the shield. (Sorry OP for jacking the post.)

Against Nids TH/SS is clearly the better choice. Every Nid unit gets wounded on 2s, and Warriors get insta-deathed while Lash Whips have no effect.

Little bugs will kill Terms through wound saturation, but that's just as true of the LC or SB/PF varieties as TH/SS; the difference is that they are 2x as survivable against the ones that do ignore armor and far more potent offensively.

Why are we talking about Terminators charging freakin' GROTS of all things? If ANY SM player does that he deserves an almight slap.

Anyway.

A mixture of 2 LC to 3 TH/SS is the ideal compilation. This grants you the flexiblity (which is what Marines are all about) to deal with numerous potential threats that your opponent may present.

Ailaros; LC are NOT bolters. Why you are comparing the two is utterly baffling.

And just for the record, LC aren't supposed to be good against hordes. They're supposed to be used against MEQ, which is something that they are good at.

L. Wrex

But they aren't that much better than the TH. Remamber, you only need to kill one more than the other guy does to make a sweeping advance and the easiest race to dothat with are orcs (not necessarily grots) because of their craptastic I and Ld.