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Termis and sweeping advance?

TH/SS with FnP i use in my Blood Angels List. They are incredibly powerful and hard to kill with a 2+ Armour Save, 3+ Invulnerable Save and Feel no pain

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:Why are we talking about Terminators charging freakin' GROTS of all things? If ANY SM player does that he deserves an almight slap.

L. Wrex

Hehe, thing is I once charged some (10) so as to get the massacre roll to help get up a building to capture a point fast.

Thing is though if we are talking specific armies (idget) then in the dark angels the only way to go is to mix (their SS suck!!).

TH/SS is statistically the superior choice. If you take a unit of 5, you will nearly always be better off. LC's are not bad, simply not as good in as many situations.

LC's are most effective when used with a squad that can give them furious assault, such as attaching Khan to them, or with BA or BT.

Um yeah, last I knew nothing in terminator armor is allowed to sweeping advance.

Here is my uber BA terminator unit loadout:

4x pair of lightning claws, thunderhammer & stormshield
Recluisarch
Corbulo
LRC/extra armor & MM

This is a monster unit, furious charge plus rerolling hits on the charge plus striking at initiative due to frag launchers is brutal. The TH/SS is there simply to soak up wounds. So it is possible to go heavy with lightning claws if you have the right army.

G

I'd go with the hammer/storm shield combo. I've faced this on many an occasion and find it hard to defeat.

Black Blow Fly has it. That unit is excellent because it murders most other units with ease, but the 1 SS/TH allows them to not worry about getting tarpitted and they are able to destroy vehicles.

With vanilla Marines I usually run all TH/SS guys with maybe 1 LC in there depending on if I'm playing MEQs. Same points value.

When I play using the Blood Angels dex, I use a lot more lightning claws because A) TH/SS is +5 points, and B) you want to take advantage of Furious Charge with a Sanguinary Priest.


It really depends.

InventionThirteen wrote:I'd go with the hammer/storm shield combo. I've faced this on many an occasion and find it hard to defeat.

I once took down 3 TH/SS termis, termi chaplin, and cassius using Belial (sword), 3 TLC (one had the banner), 1 TH/SS, and 1 SB/CF on the charge. I had only lost the TH/SS and the chainfist BECAUSE of the large amount of lightning claw attacks (5 per=15!), also please note though that my SS are only 4+ invo in CC ONLY.

I definitely suggest a mix if you are running them in an LRC. If they are gating around with a Librarian than all TH/SS is the only way to go to avoid being plasma gunned into oblivion. I am currently working on some LC equipped Assault Terminators for my Salamanders. I know it isn't fluffy but now that I have started running them in a LRR or LRC I am realizing the squad lacks some before or at initiative punch.

TH/SS or LC.

Depends what you're designing them to go against.

Anti infantry LC rule

Anti armour take TH/SS

That's not to say that they can't both be used for those roles, but with LC you get rerolled failures to hit (good for hoardes) and with TH/SS you get to have a 3+ inv save (good for when a Land Raider targets you) and a Str 9 Thunder Hammer strike (am I right that Terminators get a +1 to their str?)

I dont think so, but i am not sure either.

Corennus wrote: but with LC you get rerolled failures to hit (good for hoardes) and with TH/SS you get to have a 3+ inv save (good for when a Land Raider targets you) and a Str 9 Thunder Hammer strike (am I right that Terminators get a +1 to their str?)

Do you even play SM?

um yeah chaos. Lightning claws allow you to reroll failed rolls to hit. Storm Shields have a 3+ inv save, and i'm not sure if terminators get an extra strength point for wearing terminator armour but they should.


And yes I play SM. I haven't got so much expereince with Terminators as others, but i've tried both combos of CC weapons and my pref is TH/SS.

Corennus wrote:Lightning claws allow you to reroll failed rolls to hit.

Nope, they allow a re-roll to wound, not to hit.

Corennus wrote:and i'm not sure if terminators get an extra strength point for wearing terminator armour but they should.

They have never, ever got a point of S for wearing Terminator armour. They get a 2+/5++ save, and extra ATTACK for the Terminator honours (included in their profile) and access to special wargear. The only Terminators with +1 S I think were the Khorne Cult ones waaaaaaay back in the day.

L. Wrex

Ok like I said i'm a newbie. And rerolls to wound......ok i'll take those.....

It's weird though they should be at strength 5 IMO. oh well, if they were no-one would fight terminators.

Im starting to like LCs more and more. They get 2 more atacks, and rerolls for wounding, + they're power weapons (not shure about it, but i imagine they should be). and with my common enemies being nids, they work miracles

Lightning Claws ARE power weapons, so no armour saves allowed on wounds from them.

And yeah against small tyranids they should work wonders. Just be careful against larger stuff i think (as a newbie) since nids have some nasty thick carapaces.

What fun debate...

I will through my two yen in CLs look cooler IMHO and are therefore better.... I like them in tournaments because you can find MEQ in large supply I also think that if you can put a Chaplin in there with them you could potentially cut down even the Biggest MCs in the Nid dex. if you can add a few more THSSs in to bring your total up to 7 Terminators I think they will fit in a LRCrusader juts fine LC will make sure you cut down most of the THSS you face... I like 5 LC and 2 THSS in a LRC or 4LC 1THSS in a LRRedeemer if you can take a Chaplin with a Jump pack and have him follow the LR until you are ready to Charge... then have him join the unit as it pops out... HOORAA Marines rock...

TH/SS is the most blanced build as it can hold against most things thrown at it.

LCs are best against enemies that can't bring alot of power weapons or massed AP2. Guard and orks are great examples(watchout for burnas though)

LC on a sergeant in a marine assault squad on the charge is just nasty. Especially if you've got a Chaplain re-rolling failed hits.

TH/SS however is nice for those times you have to crack open a Trukk or Battlewagon

Corennus wrote:Lightning Claws ARE power weapons, so no armour saves allowed on wounds from them.

And yeah against small tyranids they should work wonders. Just be careful against larger stuff i think (as a newbie) since nids have some nasty thick carapaces.

Don't worry against big nids the re-roll to wound is a huge benefit, and they still don't benefit from higher armor saves.

i have a LC on my captain, and he's once managed to kill a trygon prime, and than inflict a wound on a carnifex before being killed, just because of the re-rolls

Against the things you should be taking them for, TH/SH are the better option. LC would be better if they had Initiative 5. I would say LC are worth it in BA, since they can get FC, but do BA really need them?

When you face massed armor ignoring weapons, having a mix doesn't really help you survive.

Assault termies are meant to kill things you can't handle with shooting, so things like nobs, nid warriors (multiwound infantry are annoying to kill), MCs, dreds, CC characters, etc. Taking them to clear out rank and file is just silly, when you can take flamers and units that have dakka to kill them in a much safer fashion.

yes, but you can kill more whatevers with LCs

Only way Lightning Claws really make up for lack of a 3++ inv save is if you add a chaplain to the mix and go taking out squads of 20+ infantry.

Rerolled hits AND rerolled wounds = a lot of casualties.

BUT, by the same token a force of TH/SS with Null Zone is perfect for taking out high toughness creatures like Daemon Princes.

you are aware that you will rarely have to make an inv. throw with a 2+ save?

Have you never gone against power weapons? or lascannons? or melta? or plasma?

Well, for my chaos marines, I can either take a power fist or two lightning claws, they're the same cost. I usually take double claws though. I don't really care if I don't have a shotting attack. If I really want to, I'll throw a Heavy flamer in with them so they get an attack.

I don't even know what SS/TH's are. What do storm shields do?