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Just did a page by page comparison with my WH codex (the book)
All as it was originally printed, including Acts of Faith, Allies, Armoury, Henchmen, Upgrades and specials.
Basically all of pages 14 to 47 minus MOST artwork pages, but not page 19 (Adepta Sororitas Battlegear)
Amongst other issues this leaves the WH transport choices vastly over costed:
Chimera 70/55 points for IG
Rhino 50/35 points for SM
Landraider same cost but capacity 10/12 for SM (no machine spirit or assault vehicle rules?)
Stormtroopers seem like a bargain at 10/16 points for IG but no hotshots or special ops.
So why include the Battle sister image from page 19? I'm hoping it means some awesome new plastics...
I think I'll do a similar comparison with my DH book.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
All DH pages from 12 to 32 unchanged from printed codex, still have all DH special rules but as mentioned earlier no special characters.
So it looks like a stop gap Codex like the BA PDF with the prospect of a new shiny 5th Ed update to come.
Could have been worse..

Kanluwen wrote:Wasn't the PDF intended to be an update to the Codex, and not a standalone?

No, that was just unrealistic wishful thinking. Was never meant to be something like the BA Codex in 4th edition.
The German pdf was online several years ago, when the German DH and WH Codices went OOP, was taken from the website with its international relaunch.

Hi guys !

It seems that german pdf looks like the french ones. Here we were short of printed codexes since three years. So downloadable and shortened versions of both codexes appeared. I'm pretty surprised that the english printed version stock lasted so long, that GW decided to make the english pdf available only now in 2010.

For those who are more confortable in reading french compared to german, below are the french downloadable codexes.
I would say, dont expect the english pdf to be different from these. It will only be a temporary fix to book shortage before the real new releases.

french Ordo Malleus codex

french Ordo Hereticus codex

To those in countries where these have been pdf only for a while now, what affect, if any, do you think this has had on the lists popularity ?

I appreciate this will only be anecdotal.

I doubt that the pdf availability made them more popular. It's not a big deal to have a free codex, when every figurine in your army is a pricey one of Pewter alloy.

But it have helped to avoid these armies to not be fogotten. I can't draw a before / after pdf scheme, but these armies remain quite popular despite of their age. Especially among senior modelists.

In tournaments, Demon Hunters are considered as a low tier army, while sisters appear somewhat more competitive. A lot of tournaments here use some kind of compo bonus system to help less competitive codexes, or fun & fluffy builds. So this factor boosts them too. Anyway, in France 2010 Throne of Skulls played at 1750 pts, we had 3 SoB armies (11/17/18 th) and 1 DH army (38 th), among the 42 players gone through qualifiers tournaments. This is not bad (no compo bonus in ToS of course).

Are these really generated from scans?

You know, they really shouldn't need t scan their own books to make PDFs. It's not like they don't have the original files around.

They dropped their printing press and it smashed :(

Balance wrote:Are these really generated from scans?

You know, they really shouldn't need t scan their own books to make PDFs. It's not like they don't have the original files around.

Technically, these pdf's are clean of scan artifacts. So no, they were not made from scanning, but from the original file. However, about army list, the contents are nearly identical to what printed version have been. IIRC they included the errata at the time of pdf release (2007) but no more. These are shortened versions, as I said, because fluff and painting sections are not included, only army list part.
Let's bet it will be the same for english version.
Otherwise GW have become generous.

They haven't uploaded the codexes in the Spanish website. I wonder if they will do it.

Ravajaxe wrote:

Balance wrote:Are these really generated from scans?

You know, they really shouldn't need t scan their own books to make PDFs. It's not like they don't have the original files around.

Technically, these pdf's are clean of scan artifacts. So no, they were not made from scanning, but from the original file. However, about army list, the contents are nearly identical to what printed version have been. IIRC they included the errata at the time of pdf release (2007) but no more. These are shortened versions, as I said, because fluff and painting sections are not included, only army list part.
Let's bet it will be the same for english version.
Otherwise GW have become generous.

OK, that's understandable, if lazy.

"Petit gabarit d’explosion." Yeah, some foods do that to me.

General Mayhem wrote:The guy in my FLGS was certain it would be a combined WH and DH codex called The Inquisition (cue old Monty Python jokes).

Who do you believe? Guy at FLGS? Or Jervis? (Hint: Jervis). Jervis has told us they will not be combined. WHY WON'T THAT STUPID RUMOR DIE!?

Ixe wrote:

General Mayhem wrote:The guy in my FLGS was certain it would be a combined WH and DH codex called The Inquisition (cue old Monty Python jokes).

Who do you believe? Guy at FLGS? Or Jervis? (Hint: Jervis). Jervis has told us they will not be combined. WHY WON'T THAT STUPID RUMOR DIE!?

Because we have hope for a giant a** codex of imperial goodness, thats why.

Ixe wrote:

General Mayhem wrote:The guy in my FLGS was certain it would be a combined WH and DH codex called The Inquisition (cue old Monty Python jokes).

Who do you believe? Guy at FLGS? Or Jervis? (Hint: Jervis). Jervis has told us they will not be combined. WHY WON'T THAT STUPID RUMOR DIE!?

He also said the big black box wasn't Space Hulk.

Happygrunt wrote:

Ixe wrote:

General Mayhem wrote:The guy in my FLGS was certain it would be a combined WH and DH codex called The Inquisition (cue old Monty Python jokes).

Who do you believe? Guy at FLGS? Or Jervis? (Hint: Jervis). Jervis has told us they will not be combined. WHY WON'T THAT STUPID RUMOR DIE!?

Because we have hope for a giant a** codex of imperial goodness, thats why.

You really think a combined codex wouldn't be made out of nerf? I don't have your faith. I want my Codex: Sisters of Battle, and I'm not convinced the SoB would get adequate treatment without their own special book.

Furthermore, we KNOW the rumor is wrong. Your hope is false hope. We actually have solid rules rumors for codex: Grey Knights, including rules and new units we're gonna see... So you can stop holding your breath over the rumor made from whole cloth by an anonymous guy at an anonymous FLGS.

The German PDFs are just the old ones that were up before the store change, both of them combined could hardly be called "massive" as the PDFs are referred to in the latest WD. Also, in Jervis' mind, if they call the future "combined" book Forces of the Imperium, it does not count as a combined Inq codex, so he would not have lied (the title of the section says, "Forces of the Imperium rejoice!").

I agree that combining DH and WH would be undesirable and also highly unfluffy (ie DH are psykers, psykers are heretics, WH purge heretics). Just saying what I heard, not that it is "written in stone". : )

General Mayhem wrote:I agree that combining DH and WH would be undesirable and also highly unfluffy (ie DH are psykers, psykers are heretics, WH purge heretics).

Wrong on both counts.

The three Ordos tend to work together a fair bit.

DH are not psykers. Many Inquisitors from all three main Ordos are psykers, and the factionalism within the Inquisition determines your position towards psykers (ie. casting all Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors as total anti-psyker witch hunters is quite one dimensional).

Sounds like you are a Radical. Some of us are Puritans, burn heretic!

Bloodwin wrote:The problem with PDFs is that you need to be able to access the net to get an update. As internet access isn't under the control of GW you could end up with a tournament with 2 different versions of the army PDF. The same goes for GW making old editions available. They are nice for collectors but could be very confusing for a newbie. No matter how clear you make the website, someone would get caught out.

This is the same excuse GW use for not issuing errata unless it's a massive error.

Other game systems have living rules and don't have this problem - the rules constantly improve and tournaments simply state which version of the rules will be in force.

General Mayhem wrote:I agree that combining DH and WH would be undesirable and also highly unfluffy (ie DH are psykers, psykers are heretics, WH purge heretics).

Uhh... You're being sarcastic right? You can't really believe that WHs indiscriminately hunt EVERY SINGLE PSYKER in the game, including DHs... Such a belief would imply that their greatest enemy of all is the Emperor, and would make them a very non-imperial army, considering the number of psykers the imperium utilizes.

As I understand it, WHs kill psykers which have not been imperially sanctioned, because those psykers might not have a handle on their powers and thus, are very vulnerable to the influence of Chaos, (Potential heretics.) and could serve as a gateway though which demons cross into the materium. Sanctioned psykers, Librarians, DHs, etc. Have obviously been declared relatively safe, and are not in danger of being tracked down by the Ordo Hereticus.

I could be totally wrong, I suppose. I've never played an imperial army and don't care much about their fluff.

Archonate wrote:

General Mayhem wrote:I agree that combining DH and WH would be undesirable and also highly unfluffy (ie DH are psykers, psykers are heretics, WH purge heretics).

Uhh... You're being sarcastic right? You can't really believe that WHs indiscriminately hunt EVERY SINGLE PSYKER in the game, including DHs... Such a belief would imply that their greatest enemy of all is the Emperor, and would make them a very non-imperial army, considering the number of psykers the imperium utilizes.

As I understand it, WHs kill psykers which have not been imperially sanctioned, because those psykers might not have a handle on their powers and thus, are very vulnerable to the influence of Chaos, (Potential heretics.) and could serve as a gateway though which demons cross into the materium. Sanctioned psykers, Librarians, DHs, etc. Have obviously been declared relatively safe, and are not in danger of being tracked down by the Ordo Hereticus.

I could be totally wrong, I suppose. I've never played an imperial army and don't care much about their fluff.

It is general imperial dogma.

There are many different sects within the Inquisition, some abhor the use of psykers and warp tainted artefacts whilst radicals pursue daemonic artefacts to use them against the enemies of mankind. There are conflicts of interest between these sects and wars are fought due to these beliefs. Witch Hunters will gladly hunt down Daemon Hunters.

Even Astartes mistrust Psykers, including their own Librarians.

General Mayhem wrote:I agree that combining DH and WH would be undesirable and also highly unfluffy (ie DH are psykers, psykers are heretics, WH purge heretics). Just saying what I heard, not that it is "written in stone". : )

OK, but here's the thing. We KNOW for SURE that Codex: Grey Knights is coming out, and it is not going to have any Sisters of Battle in it. Screw the fluff of ordos working together, it does not matter. THERE WILL BE NO COMBINED CODEX. It's not an unknown quantity. It's a known fact that this dumb rumor will NOT come true. You can stop "just saying what I heard," because now you know that what you heard is utter B.S.

Ixe wrote:

General Mayhem wrote:I agree that combining DH and WH would be undesirable and also highly unfluffy (ie DH are psykers, psykers are heretics, WH purge heretics). Just saying what I heard, not that it is "written in stone". : )

You can stop "just saying what I heard," because now you know that what you heard is utter B.S.

So I just believe everything I read instead? This is the NEWS and RUMOURS forum? If it's out there its a fact, that is NEWS. If it isn't out there (officially released by GW) then Im afraid that as far as I'm concerned it's still just a RUMOUR. When posters post OPINIONS I accept them as just that, opinions. The irony of WH hunting down psykers when without them the emperor would die and the imperium would collapse is acknowledged in the WH codex, as is the fact that different Inquisitors will have a different attitude to the "problem" Bit like real life really.

Um, I wasn't even talking about the fluff. Fluff is not relevant to the discussion of whether the books will be combined, because they won't. That's from the mouth of a GW game designer. Jervis flat out called the combined inquisition dex "pure fanwank." Why would you trust "guy at FLGS" over "head game designer?" What kind of crazy world would that make sense in?

Let's just agree that some people like Jervis, Harry, DPA and others are certain that we will see a Grey Knight Codex without Sororitas in the near future, and that there is a guy in a FLGS who thinks otherwise.

BTW, there are sanctioned and unsanctioned psykers in the Imperium. New unsanctioned psykers are born every day. Guess what happens to them , when Sororitas find them? Ever heard of the Black Ships? http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Ships

Correct, but then that's what's supposed to happen when ANYONE finds unsanctioned psykers though.

feth the inquisition, GIVE ME SISTERS! Or... I won't give you my money.


What, money talks, grandstanding doesn't


Automatically Appended Next Post:

General Mayhem wrote:The guy in my FLGS was certain it would be a combined WH and DH codex called The Inquisition (cue old Monty Python jokes).

My left asscheek said to my right one that Orks will be combined with Tyranids and the Tyranork army will be out alongside Dark Eldar come this October. I'd say my left asscheek is just as reliable.

Can someone point me to some fluff that shows the Ordos working together. Cause Siege of Vraks clearly contradicts this.

They fight only when their interests contradict. The Cain series, for example, shows that Inquisitors often call on those of the other Holy Ordos if the situation isn't their area of expertise (such as calling the Ordo Xenos to help root out a genestealer cult).

Melissia wrote:
My left asscheek said to my right one that Orks will be combined with Tyranids and the Tyranork army will be out alongside Dark Eldar come this October. I'd say my left asscheek is just as reliable.

Tyranorks would be cool, fingers crossed!......................