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So when exactly can we expect this? One to two months?

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:So when exactly can we expect this? One to two months?

Spearhead? It's in this months White Dwarf

No, the inquisition PDFs

was that a serious answer?

As you can see from this thread, the German and French versions are already uploaded, the English version expexcted any day now.

Oh wait, its just the same old crap in print. I must have misread somewhere, because I was expecting a brand new codex, like blood angels 4th edition.

Le Sigh. Can someone confirm that the DH codex still contains the "transports may only transport the units they were purchased for" line over the transport description? Thats a bigger screw than having them over costed, IMHO.

Yes that's what it (the DC) says. It begins with "Transports are always taken as an upgrade..."

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Oh wait, its just the same old crap in print. I must have misread somewhere, because I was expecting a brand new codex, like blood angels 4th edition.

Yes, in this thread we are talking about the same old crap.
Current rumours point to a new GK Codex maybe January, maybe earlier or later. Maybe with or without Inquisition. But that will be the topic of another thread, once we know more.

Which is why very few people are excited about it.

C:WH (I won't speak for the DH codex) is a very, very poor codex-- internally unbalanced, externally unbalanced, crappy painting section, crappy fluff section, etc etc etc. The only reason I even bother to use it is because it's the only way I can legally use my Sisters, the army whose background I prefer the most...

At least sisters are a very good army on the table top. Grey knights are just bad. And all army books had the detail of the sisters codex when it came out.

Melissia wrote:C:WH (I won't speak for the DH codex) is a very, very poor codex-- internally unbalanced, externally unbalanced, crappy painting section, crappy fluff section, etc etc etc. The only reason I even bother to use it is because it's the only way I can legally use my Sisters, the army whose background I prefer the most...

And the same in style and structure to every Codex at the time.

Things only started changing when 4th Ed Marines/BTs/Tau/Tyranids came along.

Yes, it was a pretty poorly done edition wasn't it?

Even the paint section was done poorly, there were just as many Marine variants shown in the group shots as there were Sisters variants. There should have been no goddamned place for Ultramarines in the codex, but somehow they stuffed those ugly fethers in.

What I think is the funniest thing about the paint section is that they have a picture with the caption "The Sisters of Battle join forces with the Black Templars..." even though it says explicitly in the book that Sisters can not join armies with Marines and vice versa.

http://www.modelling-mayhem.co.uk/ourshop/cat_276090-Witch-Hunters.html

Melissia and everyone else, I think you might find this link interesting.

MadCowCrazy wrote:http://www.modelling-mayhem.co.uk/ourshop/cat_276090-Witch-Hunters.html

Melissia and everyone else, I think you might find this link interesting.

That makes me excited, but SALT!

Modelling Mayhem wrote:Games Workshop has released information stating that the next new army and codex is for Witch Hunters. So Modelling-Mayhem will list these items when the new stock is released. Keep checking back for updates!

Modelling Mayhem wrote:Games Workshop has released information stating that the next new army and codex is for Daemonhunters. So Modelling-Mayhem will list these items when the new stock is released. Keep checking back for updates!

I am pretty certain that they got something wrong here.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:What I think is the funniest thing about the paint section is that they have a picture with the caption "The Sisters of Battle join forces with the Black Templars..." even though it says explicitly in the book that Sisters can not join armies with Marines and vice versa.

Marines cannot be taken as allies in a Witch Hunters army that includes Sisters of Battle; however, Sisters can be included as allies in a Space Marine army.

Don't ask me, I don't entirely understand WHY they make such a distinction.

Melissia wrote:Marines cannot be taken as allies in a Witch Hunters army that includes Sisters of Battle; however, Sisters can be included as allies in a Space Marine army.

Don't ask me, I don't entirely understand WHY they make such a distinction.

Meant as a dominance thing, I guess. The Sisters can't/won't ask for Space Marine assistance, but I guess when an Inquisitor joins the Space Marines the Inquisitor can bring whatever troops he or she wants.

You don't have to take an Inquisitor to bring Sisters allies to a Marine army. And even if you take an Inquisitor, you cannot bring Marines into a C:WH army that has Sisters. So that tosses that theory right out the window...

So basically, you can have an army of just Sisters and Marines with no Inquisition in it, but it HAS to use the SM codex as base, not the Sisters codex.

Here's how I like to think of it.

Sisters will never need the help of space marines.

Yet Space marines will need the help of sisters sometimes.

Melissia wrote:You don't have to take an Inquisitor to bring Sisters allies to a Marine army. And even if you take an Inquisitor, you cannot bring Marines into a C:WH army that has Sisters. So that tosses that theory right out the window...

So basically, you can have an army of just Sisters and Marines with no Inquisition in it, but it HAS to use the SM codex as base, not the Sisters codex.

You might assume that whenever Sisters join with Marines, it's because an Inquisitor is calling on them to assist the Astartes. He doesn't have to be in the list to be pulling the strings, though.

TBH, I don't think they forbade SoB from inducting Space Marines for any fluff reason though. They did it, IMO, to keep Sisters from becoming Girly Marines and/or too powerful. SoB would become very powerful with cheap and versatile firepower support options like landspeeders and dreadnoughts. They would also look like just another version of Space Marines. I know that Andy H. was probably very concerned about both possibilities.

Ixe wrote:

TBH, I don't think they forbade SoB from inducting Space Marines for any fluff reason though. They did it, IMO, to keep Sisters from becoming Girly Marines and/or too powerful. SoB would become very powerful with cheap and versatile firepower support options like landspeeders and dreadnoughts. They would also look like just another version of Space Marines. I know that Andy H. was probably very concerned about both possibilities.

Sisters already have quite a few amazing fire support options. The amount of melta and flamer coupled with exorcists is something amazing. I think they didnt want them to get the versatile shooty/assault units marines get. Like terminators in land raiders. The sisters dont generally have any really hard hitting combat units, which is their weakness. Allowing them to induct marines would change that.

I think they did it because their brains weren't wired right when they wrote C:WH.

Witchhunters and dark eldar are the only 2 books from third edition that have survived well into 5th as good, versatile armies, and the only ones from third that could still perform in todays environment. The inquisition books were much higher quality than a lot of the other books back then, DH and WH having more to them than say eldar or marines

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Witchhunters and dark eldar are the only 2 books from third edition that have survived well into 5th as good, versatile armies, and the only ones from third that could still perform in todays environment. The inquisition books were much higher quality than a lot of the other books back then, DH and WH having more to them than say eldar or marines

Most of which was underpowered even back then. Having a slightly better number of units, but most of them suck, is not a good situation..

Especially when a good deal of those units were actually just copy-pasted from a previous codex.

Melissia wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Witchhunters and dark eldar are the only 2 books from third edition that have survived well into 5th as good, versatile armies, and the only ones from third that could still perform in todays environment. The inquisition books were much higher quality than a lot of the other books back then, DH and WH having more to them than say eldar or marines

Most of which was underpowered even back then. Having a slightly better number of units, but most of them suck, is not a good situation..

Especially when a good deal of those units were actually just copy-pasted from a previous codex.

What codex is underpowered? Witch hunters? demonhunters? dark eldar?

Im failing to see the problem with sisters not having a separate codex. You can run a better version of the old sisters list with or without inquisition allies. It still does very well standing on its own.

No, I was referring to half the units in Codex Witch Hunters. Pretty much anything that isn't an Adepta Sororitas unit or an Exorcist is at least somewhat UP, if not dramatically so.

Yes, but this was third edition. Game balance and power came second to cool models and fluff. The fact that sisters are still a good army on the table shows that they are by no means a bad book, just have some bad selections. Which all books have, even current ones. Harpy, carnifex, venomthropes for instance.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Yes, but this was third edition. Game balance and power came second to cool models and fluff. The fact that sisters are still a good army on the table shows that they are by no means a bad book, just have some bad selections. Which all books have, even current ones. Harpy, carnifex, venomthropes for instance.

Those are all from the Tyranid codex. How about some Space Wolves examples.

Which means that third edition books in general were bad, it doesn't mean this one isn't. And most people seem to rank Sisters armies as mid-tier at best and usually lower (though I disagree personally, that's been the general consensus of pretty much every poll I've ever seen).