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Just got my White Dwarf, issue 366, and it says Codex Witch Hunters and Codex Deamonhunters to be released as PDFs and published on GW website. Just did a search, no sign yet, but it says in the WD they are coming soon!


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Thinking about it, that probably means the old codexes, not new ones. ho hum

Of course it's the old ones - they are hardly going to give new stuff away for free.

Oh dear...


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Are we sure it's not going to be like the blood angels then and linger as a PDF for the next 10 years?

That's a good point actually - maybe this is tacit confirmation of these armies being 'put out to pasture'?

I would be a happy camper if they did the retooling for 5th ed 40k before release.

I wonder how this'll affect all the "GK are next" rumors...

Spearhead is new and coming out as a rule set published for free. However, I accept that they are unlikely to do new codexes for free. Blood Angels codex was a free PDF for a while though so I still live in (somewhat desperate) hope..


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The PDF codex WAS **** but when the new one got done it was IMO brilliant!

The BA PDF wasn't really a 'new' codex though - it was more like an extended FAQ to try and make some sense out of an incredibly old 3rd Ed codex and eke out the life span of it.

Spearhead is purely a way to drive model sales at a low cost to GW - nothing more, nothing less.

"Everything you've been told is a lie."


¬¬

I think that publishing (the old) codexes for free means a new codex is on its way and thai is a means of maintaining some sales and interest until it is released.

If it is out in PDF then there are 3 ways for it to go:

These are the old codexes.... Why?

They are 6-9 months out from release, and these are new updated army lists. They see how they go, make adjustments and then release the full codex. Like they did for summer of chaos WHFB several years ago.

Sucked in and get ready for years of no update.

I'd pick number 2 as the reliable sources have been saying GKs after DE. Release early next year.

Or a way of quietly forgetting they ever existed.

filbert wrote:That's a good point actually - maybe this is tacit confirmation of these armies being 'put out to pasture'?

No.

To clarify : the pdfs will be of the "current" books we all know and love/hate/delete as applicable. Think print runs and sales times.

The lines are not being dropped, however some ..(much maybe even ) .. of their lines and model range will disappear as Gw remove them prior to them being replaced as/when their new books are released. Certain parts of the range are already scarce/ gone.

...which for Grey Knights should be, AFAIK, next year.

The guy in my FLGS was certain it would be a combined WH and DH codex called The Inquisition (cue old Monty Python jokes).

The PDFs for Blood Angels lasted like two years until the new codex, and Chaos Warriors a few months IIRC. But according to reds8n this is not the same, because this are not new rules nor an adaptation to 5th ed. The same codex. Well, at least I hope they will publish the PDFs in Spanish too, I'm tired of my WH in English.

im sure GK are getting a new codex and this is just to get people into GK so they might buy the new one when its released

reds8n wrote:
To clarify : the pdfs will be of the "current" books we all know and love/hate/delete as applicable. Think print runs and sales times.

This. Think about it. They've got the new codex in the works, going to be released within a year or so (we hope/think?). There's probably a minimum requirement for a print run to keep the costs where they can sell it at it's current price. That minimum requirement, which they would have to pay for up front, is probably far more than they expect to be able to sell between now and the new codex release. So they can do a print run and lose money on all the unsold books, or they can make them available in another fashion to maintain some interest and playability for the two armies. Hence the pdfs. Actaully a pretty good move on their part, IMO.

taylorton147 wrote:im sure GK are getting a new codex and this is just to get people into GK so they might buy the new one when its released

I'm pretty sure that, at 8+ dollars a model, people won't be rushing in to "try it". This is not a negative comment towards yours, it just me venting out at GW for being morons. It's the kind of stupid move that just angers the fanbase even more. I've GOT my DH codex, thank you. I've BOUGHT it 7 years ago and I've TRIED using it for 7 years. I've bought a lot of nice models and painted them with care. I'd love for them to be able to pull in a win without resorting to Land Raider spam.

GW has been lazy for too many years, not updating codices fast enough. Now, they have to try and make up for the lost time. Unfortunately, they can't do it fast enough, as far as I'm concerned. If they would only correct a few things in the PDF (like the Heavy 3 non-rending assault cannon or the storm shield), they would "help" a bit. Heck, I'd even take a PDF like the BA had if it was for a year. But putting my codex up for free doesn't give me anything but more frustrations as more and more player print it to use the Inquisitor with mystics and an unlimited rand Psychic Hood.



Phil

I wish they'd do this more often. Why not digitize old books from older editions? GW probably can't make a dime off the old ed. of a book, only second-hand sellers make a buck.

I realize that is a bit out there, but I did begin with "I wish". I just look back at 2nd ed books and find them refreshing.

Dead_Kennedy wrote:Why not digitize old books from older editions?

Because GW is only just realising what the interweb thingy can do.

Really, if they put up the old books, and I mean RT, 2nd Ed, Epic, and so on, and even if they charged a small amount for them, people would buy them.

General Mayhem wrote:The guy in my FLGS was certain it would be a combined WH and DH codex called The Inquisition (cue old Monty Python jokes).

Yeah, and he's repeating rumors from Dakka/Warseer. GW has given no official info to any FLGS about DH, WH, or Inquisitors.


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don_mondo wrote:

reds8n wrote:
To clarify : the pdfs will be of the "current" books we all know and love/hate/delete as applicable. Think print runs and sales times.

This. Think about it. They've got the new codex in the works, going to be released within a year or so (we hope/think?). There's probably a minimum requirement for a print run to keep the costs where they can sell it at it's current price. That minimum requirement, which they would have to pay for up front, is probably far more than they expect to be able to sell between now and the new codex release. So they can do a print run and lose money on all the unsold books, or they can make them available in another fashion to maintain some interest and playability for the two armies. Hence the pdfs. Actaully a pretty good move on their part, IMO.

QFT. It's not worth it to do a print run of the old books. They'd go through 10-20% of them by the time the new book came out, and scrap the rest. Plus be selling books only good for less than a year. Good move just putting them up as PDF's.

The problem with PDFs is that you need to be able to access the net to get an update. As internet access isn't under the control of GW you could end up with a tournament with 2 different versions of the army PDF. The same goes for GW making old editions available. They are nice for collectors but could be very confusing for a newbie. No matter how clear you make the website, someone would get caught out.

As for speed of release. It's all very well writing the book but what about the models to support them? If GW don't get the models out straight away then someone else will make models for them. This is already happening on a small scale. If GW released a codex as a PDF then people bought the current models and then GW released new versions 6 months later, players would be up in arms about being encouraged by a new codex to buy models GW knew they'd be updating.

As for the armies due for a PDF release, I doubt there would be a release of a physical codex so soon after they release a PDF. What I expect is happening is that Warhammer will get the bulk of releases for the rest of 2010, so 40K releases will be limited (Dark Eldar are my hoped for release as its been so long). GK et al aren't likely to sell in massive numbers so they can take their time winding them down and launching new models during WHFB focused months. I would expect the majority of GW sales for the second half of this year will be WHFB, so it makes sense for any 40k releases to be less popular armies that aren't as likely to cannibalise WHFB sales. It also makes sense of why there have been SW, Nids and BA codexes so close to each other, getting the big 40K armies out of the way so they dont impact on WHFB sales.

Bloodwin wrote:The problem with PDFs is that you need to be able to access the net to get an update. As internet access isn't under the control of GW you could end up with a tournament with 2 different versions of the army PDF. The same goes for GW making old editions available. They are nice for collectors but could be very confusing for a newbie. No matter how clear you make the website, someone would get caught out.

There is a difference between being a "newbie" and being someone who is easily confused over simple things.. There is no excuse for a person who plays with little soldiers to NOT know how to successfully navigate the internet in order to download something. If they bring the wrong version of their own codex to a tournament then that's their fault.. They should be a little more diligent when going to a competition. This is part of the problem with the world today, instead of setting the bar HIGHER so people achieve we set it low so that no ones feelings are "hurt" or gets confused.

If someone cant figure out how to get the right version of their rules for free on the internet.. oh well, tough luck

Meh, it's not like this matters worth a damn. These old third edition codices, let's be honest, suck.

Bloodwin wrote:The problem with PDFs is that you need to be able to access the net to get an update.

buhwaaaa!!! ROFL!! good one, bloodwin. an update, you're killing me!

i sincerely doubt these PDFs will be anything other than a scan of the print codices, mistakes and all uncorrected. GW has shown no interest in the minimal effort it takes to update older codices via PDF faq's to fix glaring mistakes/misconceptions/broken rules from 3rd ed that don't work in 5th/etc.

Indeed, you'll probably still need to print out their FAQ to play.

boreas wrote:

taylorton147 wrote:im sure GK are getting a new codex and this is just to get people into GK so they might buy the new one when its released

I'm pretty sure that, at 8+ dollars a model, people won't be rushing in to "try it". This is not a negative comment towards yours, it just me venting out at GW for being morons. It's the kind of stupid move that just angers the fanbase even more. I've GOT my DH codex, thank you. I've BOUGHT it 7 years ago and I've TRIED using it for 7 years. I've bought a lot of nice models and painted them with care. I'd love for them to be able to pull in a win without resorting to Land Raider spam.

GW has been lazy for too many years, not updating codices fast enough. Now, they have to try and make up for the lost time. Unfortunately, they can't do it fast enough, as far as I'm concerned. If they would only correct a few things in the PDF (like the Heavy 3 non-rending assault cannon or the storm shield), they would "help" a bit. Heck, I'd even take a PDF like the BA had if it was for a year. But putting my codex up for free doesn't give me anything but more frustrations as more and more player print it to use the Inquisitor with mystics and an unlimited rand Psychic Hood.



Phil

I want to feel for you, but the two sucking chest wounds created when GW ass-canned first genestealer cultists and then LATD (taking half of my soul each time) has left me dead to the world...

I currently have thousands of points of SOB in mothballs. See I wanted to play SOB not Witch Hunters...

I want a proper SOB codex not feel like my army got shoehorned into another one...

This announcement has triggered my spider sense: This will not end well, for it seems every army i pick gets put on death row, and I can sense the incoming orbital strike...

Fair warning; I am currently playing orks. I apologize in advance for when they are canceled in the near future...

CT GAMER wrote:
I want to feel for you, but the two sucking chest wounds created when GW ass-canned first genestealer cultists and then LATD (taking half of my soul each time) has left me dead to the world...

I currently have thousands of points of SOB in mothballs. See I wanted to play SOB not Witch Hunters...

I want a proper SOB codex not feel like my army got shoehorned into another one...

This announcement has triggered my spider sense: This will not end well, for it seems every army i pick gets put on death row, and I can sense the incoming orbital strike...

Fair warning; I am currently playing orks. I apologize in advance for when they are canceled in the near future...

Man, did you used to play Squats or Slann too?

Games Workshop has a long history of putting out more armies than they can actually support, and then dropping the ones that aren't as popular. The only reason why the Dark Eldar still exist at all is because it would be more work to get rid of them than to simply ignore them.

Ok, that's a little harsh I think. Overall, GW tries to please the largest part of the fan base (which is playing some version of Space Marines) but it is a pattern that creates the imbalances in player base- so that every year GW alienates more people who don't want to play the most popular forces.

But that might simply be something broken about the codex system of releasing new rules (the more frequently updated forces will experience power creep and leave the less updated forces behind).

CT GAMER wrote:

I want to feel for you, but the two sucking chest wounds created when GW ass-canned first genestealer cultists and then LATD (taking half of my soul each time) has left me dead to the world...

Hehehe, yep, I also used to have GS Cult and LatD armies, still do I guess since I still have most of the models. And I've been building up my SoB, took the SoB section for our Adepticon team, they did quite well, we only lost one game I was involved in. So I'm right there with you, altho my Orks (Speed Freaks) are long gone and my primary army is IG.

What gets me is how simple it would have been to do a true update for each army when 5th came out, kinda like it's rumored is going to happen for 8th Fantasy. And the way they once did for 3rd 40K. Almost any half dozen experienced gamers could probably sit down together and rewrite almost everything that is needed in a couple of days.

don_mondo wrote:

reds8n wrote:
To clarify : the pdfs will be of the "current" books we all know and love/hate/delete as applicable. Think print runs and sales times.

This. Think about it. They've got the new codex in the works, going to be released within a year or so (we hope/think?). There's probably a minimum requirement for a print run to keep the costs where they can sell it at it's current price. That minimum requirement, which they would have to pay for up front, is probably far more than they expect to be able to sell between now and the new codex release. So they can do a print run and lose money on all the unsold books, or they can make them available in another fashion to maintain some interest and playability for the two armies. Hence the pdfs. Actaully a pretty good move on their part, IMO.

Exactly this, gj.