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Platuan4th wrote:Yes, because AT-43 sells(or rather sold before Alliance refused to order restock product from France in the past year or so) really well(especially in America) despite what the R haters like to propagandize.

Anyone knows why they didn't restock? If something sells well you generally want to sell more of it.

JFC, it's like Rackham closed the barn door after the magnificently sculpted metal horse got out and got turned into a crappy prepainted plastic cake decoration...

Just wondering, on the army boxed set and army book of the ONI they show off these generic human soldiers with gasmasks, are these going to be done as well or are they just random background filler and we've got to work with crappy zombies instead?

His Master's Voice wrote:Anyone knows why they didn't restock? If something sells well you generally want to sell more of it.

Off-Topic: I guess a game with in demand OOP stock (i.e. UNA and terrain) doesn't sell? For US distributors, it has little to do with sales. In correspondence with a retailer invested heavily in the game, it boils down to RE thinking they're GW. They impose ridiculous stocking minimums in relation to their market demand and footprint. Thus, distributers don't want to be saddled with extra stock. They're PO'd at RE's draconian terms and conditions. As an AT-43 fanboi in the states, this concerns me greatly.

On-Topic: Aarklash Warpath is a joke. I've silently (until now) refused to field test it.

SaintManiac wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:Anyone knows why they didn't restock? If something sells well you generally want to sell more of it.

Off-Topic: I guess a game with in demand OOP stock (i.e. UNA and terrain) doesn't sell? For US distributors, it has little to do with sales. In correspondence with a retailer invested heavily in the game, it boils down to RE thinking they're GW. They impose ridiculous stocking minimums in relation to their market demand and footprint. Thus, distributers don't want to be saddled with extra stock. They're PO'd at RE's draconian terms and conditions. As an AT-43 fanboi in the states, this concerns me greatly.

On-Topic: Aarklash Warpath is a joke. I've silently (until now) refused to field test it.

Ditto what he said. Love me some C:AoR and AT-43, but AWP is pathetic.

Platuan4th wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:

No, that would be because the metal fans are so vocal that any new player trying to get a group started for C:AoR is shouted down and booed out of a store or forum. thus no new players, thus mega-sales.

You don't really think that's the reason for R's troubles, do you?

Yes, because AT-43 sells(or rather sold before Alliance refused to order restock product from France in the past year or so) really well(especially in America) despite what the R haters like to propagandize.

People who are active in online forums, despite what many might want to believe, are a minority of people involved in most game systems.

I highly doubt all the R-haters are responsible for R's problems.

Rackham does a fine job of screwing everything up all by themselves.

Alpharius wrote:Rackham does a fine job of screwing everything up all by themselves.

Agreed !! And I didn't think any game company could outdo the fiasco and incompetance of Mongoose as they set the bar so high (low ?) with their pre-painted miniatures (and empty promises of greatness).

Alpharius wrote:I highly doubt all the R-haters are responsible for R's problems.

Wow, way to read something into what I said that isn't there at all.

Note, I said that AT-43 sells better than what R haters believe and say, and in no way stated or implied that R complainers were the reason the company has all their problems, except for the problems that stores have selling to players that had no involvement in in pre-C:AOR. I've seen first hand people not buy R products because of all the bad mouthing from older players. It's much the same situation as LOTR players and GW stores, really.

But, of course, you can feel free to twist my words to fit your agenda as much as you want.

Platuan4th wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I highly doubt all the R-haters are responsible for R's problems.

Wow, way to read something into what I said that isn't there at all.

Note, I said that AT-43 sells better than what R haters believe and say, and in no way stated or implied that R complainers were the reason the company has all their problems, except for the problems that stores have selling to players that had no involvement in in pre-C:AOR. I've seen first hand people not buy R products because of all the bad mouthing from older players. It's much the same situation as LOTR players and GW stores, really.

But, of course, you can feel free to twist my words to fit your agenda as much as you want.

You believe that all of Rackham's problem are due to the Goblins that live under the Designers's beds!?

Now THAT's something I could believe . . .

Oshova

Platuan4th wrote:

Note, I said that AT-43 sells better than what R haters believe and say, and in no way stated or implied that R complainers were the reason the company has all their problems, except for the problems that stores have selling to players that had no involvement in in pre-C:AOR. I've seen first hand people not buy R products because of all the bad mouthing from older players. It's much the same situation as LOTR players and GW stores, really.

I agree with your point on the influence of what you call R haters on the possible new players and on how it made it harder for shop to sell the pr-painted crap. Yet, what are " R haters" if not mostly former players and devouted consummers who got rudely deprived of their best toys?
R's new head team (by new, I mean in charge for nearly four loooong years) and particularly the marketing guys (who probably made the worst market analysis in the tabletop/wargaming/roleplaying buisness ever) are the only responsible of R's fall.

So kids, always remember to do your marketing homeworks when you're buying a gaming company, it will prevent you to ignore what you're buying and who you're selling to!

Oh, and by the way, a skirmish game in the confrontation universe...It reminds me of something but I really can't see what...

Hyenajoe wrote:
I agree with your point on the influence of what you call R haters on the possible new players and on how it made it harder for shop to sell the pr-painted crap. Yet, what are " R haters" if not mostly former players and devouted consummers who got rudely deprived of their best toys?
R's new head team (...) are the only responsible of R's fall.

Emphasis mine, because this is seriously true. It's just too easy to "blame the messenger" and pretend the only reason things aren't perfect is because the "bad people are complaining on the web"
Decent games, and decent companies, will sell regardless.

Hyenajoe wrote:Oh, and by the way, a skirmish game in the confrontation universe...It reminds me of something but I really can't see what...

I believe that GW have a phrase for this, it is 'something we have never done before'.

Although I think I could get behind unpainted AT-43 Skirmish. That would float my boat if it ever existed.

Totally OT but somewhat related question:

Are all the AT-43 models still in 'print', or are there lots of gaps in the line where they've stopped making things? Or are there no more AT-43 releases planned?



I ask because I kinda want to do a custom 40K army with the Therians, and don't want them all to vanish from the market suddenly.

The current range of AT-43 models are still being produced, aswell as Confrontation models. All are pre-painted plastic, and there are no plans to go unpainted again as far as I can tell.

There have been no new releases this year further than Februrary (if memory serves), but Rackham's plan is to build up to next year, and hopefully brush 2010 under the carpet, and mark it as "experience".

And tbh on the "custom" side of things. I have seen a lot of re-paints of AT-43 models, and it works just as well as unpainted models. And in some cases is a lot easier, if you use the base colours as a pre-painted undercoat (army boxes for example)

I honestly can't wait for the next wave of models to come out next year, and hopefully there will be a new campaign box as well. ME WANTS MORE COMMIES!!! =p

Oshova

Certain units are hard to come by in most of the armies, and because they did different 'schemes' for some models ala. Frostbite vs. Damocles some models will look rather different if you're meaning to use them unpainted.

Example. Getting star trooper specialist boxes is next to impossible in the Damocles scheme.

The only models I've been worrying about are Red Blok (mine), and Oni (my Dad's). So this is something I would have missed =p

Never really fancied UNA or Therians tbh.

But anyway . . . back On Topic . . .

Who would play Skirmish Confrontation if they brought out Confrontation 4, the next edition of the old Confrontation?

Because I know I would, and I know atleast 10 other people in Britain that would, and in fact still play Confrontation 3.5 =D

Oshova

Issue w/ Rackham.


1) killed Confrontations by announcing full PPP when the game was 9 months or more from release. C3/3.5 was a funding source for AT43. While Conf (2/3/3.5) provide decent cash flows it wasn't what R needed to sustain the bloated organization it had become... so it needed a large scale game. COnf in metal couldn't be this game. Way to expensive. However, they dried up their cash flows too quickly. I don't think they anticipated how quickly their current players would stop purchasing.

2) Looked to break away from current market into a new market. Simpler/cheaper with a larger player base. They wanted to distribute in Chain superstores (Target and Walmart next to Heroquest).



3) Distributors. Couldn't maintain enough product to satisfy market. Amount of shelf space was too much for many LGS to carry. Product minimums required to make a descent margin for distributors were too high when demand wasn't in place. Remember R went through 4 distributors in as many years. The consistent thing about all your failed relationships is you.

R was also late in delivering most product in their schedule from 60 to 120 days. Consistent push out of new stuff also dried up capital to further drive production.

4) Players. R (at best) made promises they couldn't keep about maintaining all armies in CAoR and at worst, lied to their players to keep interest up.


Note: I like AT43. loved Conf. If the support was there I'd still play AT but it isn't. I'm not a hater just totally ambivalent to them. They are off radar. I fully understand the products they are bringing out may be set in a world I loved but are not longer targeted to me as a player. This is fine by me.

There is some good support for AT-43 in the UK. But this has dried up over the past year, due to lack of support from Rackham. If they sorted themselves out, and got some new rules and models out there. Then maybe it would pick up again. But that's not going to be until next year, at the earliest.

Oshova

Oshova wrote:There is some good support for AT-43 in the UK. But this has dried up over the past year, due to lack of support from Rackham. If they sorted themselves out, and got some new rules and models out there. Then maybe it would pick up again. But that's not going to be until next year, at the earliest.

Oshova

ahhh.

I think I've seen this post in 2007, 2008, 2009 and now 2010.

It is the same every year with a twist or two.

Hopeful Gamer wrote:We have a lot of players here in (insert State or Country). However, some of players are quitting b/c we (insert )

1) don't have new product
2) new product is delayed
3) to much is out of stock (UNA walkers and steel troopers and containers and bunkers...)
4) Our LGS can't get it from distributors locally and we have to order through R direct.

But...Next year it will be wine and roses when R finally gets on their feet. We'll get the (insert)
1) New Army X
2) New Campaign Y
3) New rules
4) Errata/FAQ
5) New Units

I can hardly wait.

Someone just wake me up when it is here.

I'm sorry . . . but I've only heard of R's problems since the change of Confrontation. But hey, what do I know. I only played for like 3 years? Ohwell . . .

Oshova

Oshova: New rules are coming sooner than you think (i.e. before 2011). And I'll see them before most. That's what I've been told. Considering the reliability/unreliability of the source, I'm not holding my breath just yet.

I've also seen the beta for the "new" skirmish game. At least, I seriously hope it's beta.

IIRC starting with all prepainted stuff made in China, Rackham sold all their stock to USA only, leaving Europeans to reimport it from USA with 1$=1Euro prices or worse. No European distribution at all, at least no German one. Guess that was one thing to kill the European market completely. The pending bancruptcy and many ex-distributors selling off their stock at ridiculously cheap prices didn't help either.

SaintManiac I know what I've heard, and that comes from the people I know, who know. But obviously all dates are a bit here and there. It was just my own questimation from the information I've had that =D

Oshova

"Ah, Rackham, that rusty old slut. Tol' us she loved us, din' she? Made all those promises how she'd never change, an' we'd always be together...

But she lied. After the weddin', she got old an' ugly real quick...

An' then she slathered on the cheap paint an' plastic.

Give us anuvver drink, love..."

Sorry, everytime this topic comes up I feel like we're a bunch of old men in a pub bitching about our lost love. Completely justified, of course, but kinda sad nonetheless.



Anyways, has anyone heard of Arcana? Seems the world of Cadwallon isn't completey dead quite yet:

http://www.alderac.com/arcana/

Not sure what to make of it. It's a card game, no minis or playing boards. I tried watching the review video, but the sound of my brain snoring finally overpowered the droning explanation. Mercifully.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
FWIW, I still play Confrontation 3.0 from time to time with friends. We still enjoy the models, and it makes for interesting "story" driven games. 3.5 had some good ideas, but needed way more testing before being released so we pretend that never happened.

And I'll always enjoy painting the models.


For anyone who hasn't seen the difference between the old metals and new pre-painted plastics, allow me to illustrate my source of bitterness:

Before (metal):


After (plastic):


sigh.

There there old boy. Have another pint.

Mastiff wrote:"Ah, Rackham, that rusty old slut. Tol' us she loved us, din' she? Made all those promises how she'd never change, an' we'd always be together...

But she lied. After the weddin', she got old an' ugly real quick...

An' then she slathered on the cheap paint an' plastic.

Give us anuvver drink, love..."

Sorry, everytime this topic comes up I feel like we're a bunch of old men in a pub bitching about our lost love. Completely justified, of course, but kinda sad nonetheless.

Hélas, mon pauvre ami!

I couldn't say it in a better way...(where's the jug I ordered?)