Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

....well at least they got multi-lasers...

Kami While I do nto agree with you I respect your opinionand will nto get in this argument that i have been in for the past 3 months but you have to admit there is a slight possibility i mean look at what happend to Cassius.

I know it hurts but you need to let go. S'ok denail is the first step in mourning.

Damn, that sucks. You'd think they'd not give Goto any more work after his failures with the DoW books.

I've avoided CS Goto, but from what I've read, or tried to read, the two guys known as Lee Lightner should be taken out and shot. Seriously.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I know it hurts but you need to let go.

Spoiler:

Besides getting messed up by his "brothers" he was virus bombed then shot in the face by a battleship lance.

S'ok denail is the first step in mourning.

I say he had a slight and i mean very very slight chance . But mayeb i should let go lol he is still in my chapters fulf and we can always blame it on fm technology.

The fact that the Space Cajuns in Flesh and Iron come from a planet whose capitol is called Norleans (or Norlens, who cares) is just lazy. It's not even borderline clever like later in the book where a character is mentioned as using a "Mosgant" shotgun.

On the plus side as far as naming references go, Cain's Last Stand gets full marks for having Rytepat Spaceport (Wright-Patterson or Wright-Patt is a major USAF base in Dayton, Ohio).

Codex fluff?
The infamous Calgar-curbstomps-Avatar.
As for Black Library books I have only read one, but can't recall it.
Greetz,
Mr. Self Destruct

One of the most disappointing books has to be Courage and Honor. I like Graham McNeill's work a lot but the sub-plot about



It just read like a very clumsy attempt to inject a "real world" political issue into a 40K novel, particularly an incident in Iraq a few years ago. I don't think it made sense or fit the story and it broke up the rhythm of what was otherwise a pretty decent plot.

Like everyone else, the recent BA codex was a disappointment. Why does everyone hate the Space Wolf novels, though? For the most part they were quite good, by BL standards. Why all the hate?

Well that's the thing... BL standards are low.

Blood Pact...Too much blood pact not enough mkoll or Ezrah

The entire Horus Heresy series was an awful idea, poorly executed.

The Heresy era works very well as background fluff for the setting. In the codexes it's presented as a vague story of a time in the distant past, with larger-than-life heroes and villains and unbelievable events, surely quite distorted by the millennia of retelling and filtering through an increasingly dogmatic state religion. Perfect for establishing the futuristic dark age feel of the Imperium in the 40k universe.

But it does not hold up to close scrutiny; the story of the Primarchs, the founding of the Imperium and the Heresy is incredibly stupid if we're to take it literally. It only works because it's kept so far in the background and so much is left open to reader interpretation. The more it's fleshed out, the harder it becomes to take seriously. The Heresy era as a setting is just too "high powered" (for lack of a better term) and absurd for me as a reader to relate to.

It doesn't help that the novels themselves were nearly unreadable messes. Even if the basic premise of the series had been a good one (it wasn't), the consistently awful writing would have brought it down.

SO you are saying that a book that was on the top of the new york times best seller charts was awful and the fact that it won awards was a mistake i for one am a wide read person and find the books quit delightful and think the author do a good job relating you to the characters so that you care when they die it ties themes from many types of literatures such as epics and Greek tragedies. While it is not the best in the world I think the series is the best they have done to date and please do not think i am trying to stop on your opinion but i strongly disagree.

Codex Tyranids, the new ''Oh Yeah?'' Codex.
Robin ''My Codex Is Better'' Cruddace destroys the biggest Iron Warriors stronghold outside
the Eye in ''less than a week''??!
He also kills the Mortifactors chapter, destroys the Forgeworld of Gryphonne IV and lets
Hive Fleet Leviathan enter the Segmentum Solar. Nothing enters the Segmentum Solar. Ever. That's like a weeks travel from Terra.
Also, don't forget the awful fluff from the ''Parasite of Morthrex''. How a Flying Warrior manages to kill
so many Guardsmen that the entire Guard stronghold is buried beneath a wave of parasites is beyond me.
If a Hive Fleet manages to do all this gak, then why aren't they the rulers of the galaxy?

Kogwar wrote:SO you are saying that a book that was on the top of the new york times best seller charts was awful and the fact that it won awards was a mistake i for one am a wide read person and find the books quit delightful and think the author do a good job relating you to the characters so that you care when they die it ties themes from many types of literatures such as epics and Greek tragedies. While it is not the best in the world I think the series is the best they have done to date and please do not think i am trying to stop on your opinion but i strongly disagree.

Dude...for a "wide read" person, you don't seem to know much about punctuation. I appreciate that English might not be your first language, but this is an English language forum, with rules regarding such things; and you can't and shouldn't expect anyone to read your opinion unless you express it in a way that doesn't make people's eyes hurt.

Personally, my least favourite piece of fluff is the fact that the most awesome Primarch, Night Haunter, is dead.

I've seen worse. This is the internet after all.

Legion wrote:

Kogwar wrote:SO you are saying that a book that was on the top of the new york times best seller charts was awful and the fact that it won awards was a mistake i for one am a wide read person and find the books quit delightful and think the author do a good job relating you to the characters so that you care when they die (needs period) it ties themes from many types of literatures such as epics and Greek tragedies. While it is not the best in the world I think the series is the best they have done to date and please do not think i am trying to stop on your opinion but i strongly disagree.

Dude...for a "wide read" person, you don't seem to know much about punctuation. I appreciate that English might not be your first language, but this is an English language forum, with rules regarding such things; and you can't and shouldn't expect anyone to read your opinion unless you express it in a way that doesn't make people's eyes hurt.

Personally, my least favourite piece of fluff is the fact that the most awesome Primarch, Night Haunter, is dead.

5 mistakes. Mabye more, if I bothered with Proper nouns. You made one mistake.

Legion wrote:

Kogwar wrote:SO you are saying that a book that was on the top of the new york times best seller charts was awful and the fact that it won awards was a mistake i for one am a wide read person and find the books quit delightful and think the author do a good job relating you to the characters so that you care when they die it ties themes from many types of literatures such as epics and Greek tragedies. While it is not the best in the world I think the series is the best they have done to date and please do not think i am trying to stop on your opinion but i strongly disagree.

Dude...for a "wide read" person, you don't seem to know much about punctuation. I appreciate that English might not be your first language, but this is an English language forum, with rules regarding such things; and you can't and shouldn't expect anyone to read your opinion unless you express it in a way that doesn't make people's eyes hurt.

Personally, my least favourite piece of fluff is the fact that the most awesome Primarch, Night Haunter, is dead.

I believe his quote to be entirely legible and despite the fact that he may have made spelling and grammar mistakes it did not in any way detract from his argument. Also just because people are well-read that does not automatically mean that they themselves will write in an award winning and well edited style. If you wish to disagree with his opinion that is you prerogative but please have a relevant point and keep it OT don't just belittle his writing style.

Ed_Bodger wrote:
I believe his quote to be entirely legible and despite the fact that he may have made spelling and grammar mistakes it did not in any way detract from his argument. Also just because people are well-read that does not automatically mean that they themselves will write in an award winning and well edited style. If you wish to disagree with his opinion that is you prerogative but please have a relevant point and keep it OT don't just belittle his writing style.

Hello.

You believe it didn't detract from his argument; I believe it did. Apologies for the heavy-handedness of my statement, but I believe the point itself was helpful, so it stands.

Legion.

Kogwar wrote:SO you are saying that a book that was on the top of the new york times best seller charts was awful and the fact that it won awards was a mistake

(One novel of the fourteen in the Heresy series, Graham McNeill's A Thousand Sons, made it onto the New York Times bestseller list - in the 22nd spot, for a single week - I'm not sure I would characterize that as being "on the top". I'm not aware of any meaningful awards that went to any novel in series, but I admit to only doing a cursory search so maybe I missed something there.)

Something selling a lot of copies is not really an indication of quality. To take a single example, ~53 million people paid money to see Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen in theatres last year; I don't think anyone would (seriously) argue that Michael Bay's films are high art. Or good. At least, I hope not.

Kogwar wrote:i for one am a wide read person and find the books quit delightful and think the author do a good job relating you to the characters so that you care when they die it ties themes from many types of literatures such as epics and Greek tragedies. While it is not the best in the world I think the series is the best they have done to date and please do not think i am trying to stop on your opinion but i strongly disagree.

In the sense that the protagonists take turns holding the idiot ball in order to advance the plot, yes, the Heresy series is kind of like Greek tragedy. That's actually another strike against them in my book.

But you're entitled to your opinion.

I guess someone's gotta be buying the stuff that Black Library's current crop of authors are putting out, since they keep letting them publishing more.

Genosaurer wrote: yes, the Heresy series is kind of like Geek tragedy. That's actually another strike against them in my book.

fixed your post!

I wasn't a big fan on Sons of Dorn, I wish scouts could be that awesome, but I mean really? those of you who've read this will know what I'm talking about. Oh and the author's penchant for constantly refering to the title, as if the reader didn't already know who they were reading about....THE SONS OF DORN! omg no way!

I hated the Collected Visions.
In particular the changing of the Nikaea judgement to include Psykers in addition to Sorcery.

And I hated that it was reinforced by A Thousand Sons which was otherwise a fantastic book.

Horus Rising would have placed number 1 on the New York Times Bestseller list and most of the HH books would placed too but due to some technical reason BL aren't counted.

Rynn's World.

Seriously, seems like the biggest cop-out when .

That, as well as the huge print, small pages, and the idiotic first mission that happens in the book...I'd say, it's a huge waste of money.

Che-Vito wrote:Rynn's World.

Seriously, seems like the biggest cop-out when

Spoiler:

a missile just *happens* to malfunction, hit the ammo stores, and kill almost 700 Crimson Fists at once.

.

That, as well as the huge print, small pages, and the idiotic first mission that happens in the book...I'd say, it's a huge waste of money.

Well, since that event has been in the canon since almost 2nd ed, the author probably could not change it.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Horus Rising would have placed number 1 on the New York Times Bestseller list and most of the HH books would placed too but due to some technical reason BL aren't counted.

Would be interested to see a source on that, I wasn't able to find anything about it through Google. Even if it is the case, though, I would refer to the statement I followed my first one with - a lot of people paying money for something doesn't make it good.

Genosaurer wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Horus Rising would have placed number 1 on the New York Times Bestseller list and most of the HH books would placed too but due to some technical reason BL aren't counted.

Would be interested to see a source on that, I wasn't able to find anything about it through Google. Even if it is the case, though, I would refer to the statement I followed my first one with - a lot of people paying money for something doesn't make it good.

Like Ed Hardy clothes, Affliction shirts and anything Twilight?

skrulnik wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:Rynn's World.

Seriously, seems like the biggest cop-out when

Spoiler:

a missile just *happens* to malfunction, hit the ammo stores, and kill almost 700 Crimson Fists at once.

.

That, as well as the huge print, small pages, and the idiotic first mission that happens in the book...I'd say, it's a huge waste of money.

Well, since that event has been in the canon since almost 2nd ed, the author probably could not change it.

I know :(

An epic battle that kills 700 Marines, that takes 200 pages? Sure!
Cop-out that kills most of them at once? Hell of a letdown.