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@Sarrazon
I meant hobgoblins are hobgoblins, and might not be concidered asiatic, but I see my clumsy error in this never mind I was not being very serious.

These fish men sounds like more than speculation, but I thought GW wanted to avoid 40k/Fantasy resemblence now days (about the nid resemblence)

Looking at this worldmap
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/241946.page
I think those fishmen could be fit around "the dragon isles", making it east, but not really asiatic. anyone know about these Dragon Isles or the city of spires? (by the way, I heard the next "Avatar" movie Is going to take place in the great oceans; I guess these fishmen (and fish women) will get a big boost once that comes out)

seriously am i the only one who hates the idea of fish/insect people? i am trying to break myself into fantasy but if gw release a race liek that i will find it even harder.

i would love an Araby army, i remember loving the warmaster one....which people always seem to forget....

Id honestly love more armies that arent human or elvish like. There are 2 human armies 4 elf armies (if you can really count wood elves, they are a lot of treepeoplez).

An insectoid horde army would be pretty awsome!

ShivanAngel wrote:Id honestly love more armies that arent human or elvish like. There are 2 human armies 4 elf armies (if you can really count wood elves, they are a lot of treepeoplez).

An insectoid horde army would be pretty awsome!

Agreed. Many (most?) people tend to not like change as change can bring bad things. I for one am always up for change. I know its fantasy but more dwarfs\humans\elf's would be a little bit of a let down. More fantasy creatures of some sort is always a good thing IMO.

Considering I dislike nearly all the armies be it 40k or WHFB, I prob won't like it.

If I had my way I would stand up and say "NO Mr Games Workshop!! Bad, bad, bad Mr Games Workshop!! Fix the current armies. Add more characters\units to them. Update their Codex book. THEN you can go out and play.. err.. I mean, make a new army\race".

Dragon Isles are currently occupied by primitive lizardmen ruled by Saurus not Slann because there are none over there. Much more savage than regular lizardmen almost as bad as Beasts of chaos when it comes to capturing and sacrificing people.

Ok dragon Isles are occupied, but perhaps the water around them are full of fish-nids (and thats what making the Saurus so angry)
I dont know, Im beginning to suspect at least one of eastern, non human, non asiatic is a false statement. Didnt they have alot of Fishmen mythology in the isles between australia and asia main land? In that case, the fisk-nids ought to come from south of nippon (by those lost High Elf colonies).

I dont even know why I bother, I stopped playing Fantasy battle years ago. Sorry. Ill be quiet now.

if GW have stated that the next army will be something they have never done before then it can only be one thing:

A balanced army

I have heard in the past that they have kicked around the idea of "Ape men" a la Planet of the Apes. Now, Ape Fish men might be kind of cool. Perhaps it'll be the Annunaki in celebration of 2012. hurr hurr hurr.

Please no nids in WHFB
Good grief it's a rubbish idea.
Why fish people? The current races have some consistent internal logic to the warhammer world.

These are just races parachuted in by the marketing men imho .

I know that the forces of chaos are supposed to represent the great threat to the warhammer world (followed by Nagash and Mat Ward), but I like the idea of another evil army that cannot be negotiated with and is entirely separate from chaos.

The only army that would meet this I think would actually be a warhammer tyranids type army (only without the planet devouring).

They could have been around long before the old ones.

Chaos Dwarfs would be better though.

To pick up on an earlier point, here's a crazy idea. They make Cathay only very loosely based on china, and Nippon loosely based on japan. Loose enough that they can throw in whatever they want without people getting offended. The closer they make it to Warhammer: Army of China the more people will be offended imo.

I was actually very close to seeing a picture of the FW cathayan sculpts btw. Not to be however.

Grimstonefire wrote:I know that the forces of chaos are supposed to represent the great threat to the warhammer world (followed by Nagash and Mat Ward), but I like the idea of another evil army that cannot be negotiated with and is entirely separate from chaos.

The only army that would meet this I think would actually be a warhammer tyranids type army (only without the planet devouring).

Well there is still Orks And Gobbas right?

In the RPG there used to be a fourth big Chaos god that was opposed to all other Chaos gods, dont remember his name, and dont know how they managed to fluff that out, but it would be interresting to se such an army. Lots of warped magicians and muties fighting the good fight (and ofcourse getting bashed by both Chaos and the forces of order). Maybe thats what they are doing in the kingdom of Ind?

Fayric wrote:

Grimstonefire wrote:I know that the forces of chaos are supposed to represent the great threat to the warhammer world (followed by Nagash and Mat Ward), but I like the idea of another evil army that cannot be negotiated with and is entirely separate from chaos.

The only army that would meet this I think would actually be a warhammer tyranids type army (only without the planet devouring).

Well there is still Orks And Gobbas right?

In the RPG there used to be a fourth big Chaos god that was opposed to all other Chaos gods, dont remember his name, and dont know how they managed to fluff that out, but it would be interresting to se such an army. Lots of warped magicians and muties fighting the good fight (and ofcourse getting bashed by both Chaos and the forces of order). Maybe thats what they are doing in the kingdom of Ind?

Malal?

Malal fell prey to the gods of copyright infringement. Kinda ironic.

The Malal thread is an old one and a dead end-it came out of the Kaleb Daark comic strip in the original Citadel Journals and Compendiums (early eighties) Malal has no army, only two single characters Kaleb (basically a chaos lord but styled as Moorcocks "Elric" - "Dread-Axe is "Stormbringer") and then an ogre "Skrag the slaughterer" was released that wasn't even in the comic strip.
In the early versions of warhammer there were lots of chaos gods - atleast 10, Malal was rendered redundant once the big 4 gods were defined in Realm of chaos as they all had an element of infighting in their nature.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As someone who has been in the hobby since the early eighties i can never understand why people are so keen on the idea of a new rules set.
6Th was a good step forward but as always the army books wrecked the system with too many special rules that opt out of the basic game mechanics often with no reflection of the ability in the points costs.
What i would like to see from GW is a rock solid rule book that stands forever - they could still update new prints of the book with clarifications and corrections to any printing errors but players would be able to play a game against anyone with a set with the most recent print taking precedence in any disputes.
Army "books" could be in folder form allowing new troop additions to simply slide in as released over the years.
An absolute minimum of special rules would be favourable with troop differences reflected in stats: eg no always strikes first - give them I 10 instead and reflect this in the points cost.
The points system its-self is one of the biggest problems- there should be a published points formula (there was in version 2) to allow gamers to make troops of there own devising (including whole armies) that could be used in games against anyone.
Troops should be balanced so that a 500pt monster has a 50/50 chance against 500pts of combat troops in a unit. All troops should be capable of wounding but no auto wound.
As far as new races, they could have covered over fifty by now if they didn't keep selling us the same thing over and over.

I would suggest for anyone not desperate to play in tournements: agree with your friends to stick with one set of rules, get a look at version 2 point value calculator and modify it to fit newer rules and make your own troop types and whole armies - there are plenty of figure manufacturers out there so you can probably get a representation of most things with a little work. and you wont have to pay for a new version of rules for your unit before you have had chance to collect and paint it - wouldn't it be nice to be able to finish an army, move on to another project and a few years down the line still be able to use the whole army?

sorry this is so disjointed but i needed to vent a bit.

An Kingdom of Ind army would be kind of cool. Tigers and Elephants and stuff. I know that the next army isn't supposed to be human, but still I think a human one from the East would be a cool idea.

Daemons/Chaos from the Southern pole might be kind of rad too, but I personally can't come up with any kind of fluff that might work. I'm willing to assume that the brain trust at GW can't either.

I think fishmen a la Tyrannids is going to be the next 'new' army. Chaos Dwarfs would be better though.

JOHIRA wrote:

Vlad Von Carstien wrote:I agree if anything I am sure that it would sell in japan.

I'm skeptical. Everyone said the same thing about Tau and they don't sell particularly well here.



The chief problem I see is that westerner Warhammer fans seem to have trouble telling the difference between Cathay and Nippon, and keep wanting to lump them in as one and the same. And they aren't. And I can see Japanese and Chinese players getting quite insulted if they see thousands of years of their country's culture getting squished into their main local rival's just because westerners can't really tell the difference. It would be a bit like if some Japanese miniature company made a "white people" army composed of Empire Longswordsmen, Brettonian Knight formations, Roman legionaires, and Gaulish light chariots. And then said, "well, we want to sell well in White People-land, so white people will buy these models because they're white people!"

I'd love to see a Cathay army, but I want it to be pure Cathay and I want GW to do their research. I want it to be an original creation that fits into the Warhammer world but clearly echoes real Chinese history. I do not want to see kung-fu guys in silk pajamas and hobgoblins with enormous moustaches. I'd be okay with a Nipponese army too, but frankly I start to get iffy on the subject when I start to imagine what the fans would do with it. Because eventually someone would make a Naruto army. And then next thing you know I'd be in front of a judge trying to explain why the homicide wasn't just justified, it was necessary.

But what I'd most rather see is GW just focus on getting their existing armies done properly. I could support adding another army if their sculptors weren't tied to armies as projects and could just sculpt whatever they wanted whenever the inspiration struck. But GW doesn't release like that- they've got one chance to make an army work and then players are stuck with that for like what, 7 years? And as a current beastman player, I know quite well what we can get stuck with. No, GW, please, take things slow, do your minis right, and then if you have time before next edition, you can start thinking about a new army.

Epic post

What jprp Said.

sonofruss wrote:That kind of stuff should stop Melissia there was no Grey knight codex before the current one for all you know the inq and the Grey knights are pals and have been from the founding of the order.

Actually I was thinking of Purge the Unclean rather than a proper codex. Index Astartes was certainly legal however.

edit: Similarly, they were in Warhammer 40,000: Dark Millennium, second edition's expansion.

Funny thing about introducing a 'nid expy: Jim Butcher has a Zerg knock off in his High fantasy series. Albeit this fantasy setting features Legionaire Elemental-Benders against Yeti-Ice Mages, Near immortal Wolf people and Animal-Bonding Native Americans...

If they do add another army could it be, for example Chaos Dwarfs, Dogs of War, Kisslevites or Norse? I liked many of the Regiments of Renown and the Chaos Dwarves are a nice evil counterpart to the Dorfs. Kisslevites have always had some link to the Empire but got written out in 6th onwards, the Norse are another idea with interesting points, although it probably possible to run them as Beastmen with Bearmen standing in for Minotaurs.

Fimir as an army is kind of weird as the only fluff I recall of them is about them bullying small orc or goblin tribes into service and being relatively few in number.

I suppose the Old World needs another epic threat like Chaos that can't be negotiated with or stopped. I really can't see DE, O&G, OK, VC and ToK siding with Chaos when the apocalypse rolls round to nuke the whole world, heck O&G and OK would be more likely to fight Chaos because its a bigger, stronger opponent than the other races. Other than a Tyranid knockoff I really can't think of anything though.

Also whats the 4th Elf race?

Considering the map of the world, why not an Australian race of Kangaroo/Koala/Platypus/Snake/Croc-men that are fighting Chaos at the Southern pole and use a magic system that isn't connected to the Winds of Magic and who seek to wipeout all the other races who use it because they're just making the problem worse?

Apart from marketing benefits does WHFB actually need another race? If so why a brand new one, and not something neglected that is currently in the fluff?

I seem to be pretty much on my own on this.

Also Chaos seems enough of a problem to contend with.
Now that terrain can get up and bite you on the derrier how about chaotic vegetation and rock dudes.
(don't mean guys with long hair and aerial geetars! )

Good point. Perhaps GW would like to make an army that can rally make use of recent years progress in sculpting epic models. For this a fisch-nid army would be great for them.
Feels like most fantasy-battle armies just have those massive units of foot-soldiers (they are trying to make the Wood elfs more flexible I think). So, an army of big serpentine monsters flexing arms and tails in daring poses. Nagas of Ind, perhaps, if they dont just make a Nid equaliant

JOHIRA wrote:Actually, I don't see any reason an Araby army wouldn't work if GW exercised some common sense. Part of that common sense being absolutely no references to Islam or Mohammed whatsoever. Seriously, they have managed to build an entire continent based on mideaval/rennaissance Europe without a single reference to Christianity, why should Araby be any different? Bonus points if they could make a reference to how superior Arab science is at this stage in the Warhammer world's history, especially math, astronomy, and chemistry. Have a special character who is analagous to the chivalrous Saladin (though stripped of religious connections) and a more evil special character who consorts with chaotic djinni to let players make the army in the spirit they choose. I can see this working extremely well, actually. And if they cleverly made a plastic light infantry unit that could be mixed with IG bits to make a Tallarn army, I think it would be splendid.

This. This a thousand times.

I'd absolutely adore an Araby army, only problem is the political mudhole that comes with anything that might be perceived as maligning the Arab world. It's not really like GW's trying very hard to hide the fact that it's Arabia anyway, given that Araby is just an old Orientalist term for the region anyhow (which is quite possibly offensive in its own right, come to think of it). Especially when your company is based in Europe, it's definitely something to keep an eye on.

Still, if done right, it could be rather fun: Alchemists, advanced siege weaponry, camels (preferably with rules that turn them into cavalry hunters), maybe some infantry based on the Turkish Janissaries... I'd definitely buy in.

JOHIRA wrote: absolutely no references to Islam or Mohammed whatsoever.

No reference needed - although it'd be nice if GW were to visually depict the gawd of the Araby Mohammedans ...

____

Laughing Man wrote:I'd absolutely adore an Araby army, only problem is the political mudhole that comes with anything that might be perceived as maligning the Arab world.

Oh, c'mon. Those guys are uniformly easy-going, not at all hyper sensitive. It's not like Rushdie still lives under a fatwa of death...

Laughing Man wrote:It's not really like GW's trying very hard to hide the fact that it's Arabia anyway, given that Araby is just an old Orientalist term for the region anyhow

And *that* my friend., is what is going to make Warhammer Armies: Araby a surefire hit.

I only hope and pray that GW does Araby before Cathay. That way, the Arabs can do the hard work of beating a little racial & cultural sensitivity into GW's collective head before they tackle the stuff that I care about.

An Araby army would be cool.
It is doubtful if there would be any more objection to it than an Aladdin film or pantomime.

Jinn, Rocs, Simorg, mechanical flying horses spring to mind. Loads of scope for interesting units and models

Well, if we consider the recent video interviews with Jervis & Chambers ("...nonhuman, nonasiatic (no araby, nippon, cathay, etc...), a range never done before..."), look at qoutes from WD, consider Island of Blood (?..), and read new rulebook hints, & the following is considered-

40k - WHFB
Daemons = Daemons
Chaos = Chaos
Dark Eldar = Dark Elves
Eldar = Elves/Wood Elves
Imperial Guard/Space Marines = empire/brets
Necrons = Tomb Kings/Vampire Counts
Orks = Orks/Goblins
Tau = old nippon, nothing current though...
Tyranids = nothing equivalent yet...
squats (old & gone) = Dwarfs
Chaos ? = Beastmen
? = Lizardmen
? = Skaven

It would stand to reason the next WHF army would be the 40k counterpart of either Tau or Tyranids...Both could be a buglike or fish like army in WHFB....

Having said that, could 40k someday see a space like lizardmen or skaven army?

Hmmmm......

It would be cool for an Ind army to be made of Tigermen though, that might be cool......

Considering that tyranids were originally based around the idea of dinosaurs, I'd say lizardmen are their equivalent.

I'd also say tau are the current equivalent of Dwarfs.

dereksatkinson wrote:Considering that tyranids were originally based around the idea of dinosaurs, I'd say lizardmen are their equivalent.

I'd also say tau are the current equivalent of Dwarfs.

I'd agree with the lizardmen statement, but not the Dwarf statement... There were squats in space originally & dwarves in Fantasy.... I was comparing actual equivalents of ranges in each system...

I believe that in the 8th Ed rulebook there is a fluff section called An Age of War (page 156/157), that discusses all the big armies marching to war. The following lines is what grabbed me:

"In the Dark Lands , the blacksmiths of Chaos emerge from their citadels. Amongst them come lava-spewing golems and vast winged bulls branded with the mark of the Father of Darkness"

This sounds very much like Chaos Dwarfs to me

"Albino giants from the northern wastes, clad in icicles and hoarfrost, ripping up pine trees in their hunt for the blood of man."

Though this could refer to Ogre Kingdoms Yhetees I suppose, the main other idea that comes to mind for this is Norse

Everything else in the article is from a recognizable army list I believe.

The chaos dwarfs actually had quite a few references in the rulebook. Jervis also confirmed (again) GW's intention that FW are releasing some CD's at their studio release day last week.

I'm waiting for the person he told to post a little more, so I may have more to add.

Chaos dwarfs were said to be coming back.... (key word coming back)....but there is a reference (several) to a NEW race coming out.....again, NEW race..... I love seeing araby and nippon and cathay repeatedly brought up as the possible new army (but they are not new).....There is a nonhuman/nonasiatic/never before done line coming out......