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VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote: Well, there's two points working against that theory my friend.

First, that Horus likely wouldn't have been able to withstand the entirety of the powers of the Chaos Gods channeled through him, thus it couldn't have been the true scope of their powers.

Actually, I'd content that it was most definitely the true scope of the power of Chaos Undivided. As beings of the Immaterium, the Chaos gods can only channel their power through a mortal vessel or a Daemon. The Big E wasted the paragon of Chaos Undivided. Game, set, match for the Emperor.

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:Secondly, who said they want the Emperor dead. Since his placement on the Golden Throne, Mankind has taken a downward spiral into a brutal age that holds human life to be worth nothing, and the Emperor is behind alot of that. Perhaps if the Emperor had fallen that day, he would have been hailed even moreso as a martyr, and mankind would have risen above the state they are now, not become ruled by hatred and fear. Perhaps the Emperor would have even ascended in a fashion into the warp and became an even more powerful entity, powerful enough to truly challenge and defeat the Chaos pantheon. We just don't know......Tzeentch might however, and thus kept his 'brothers' from out-right destroying the Emperor and creating a foe they would not be able to defeat in the future.

Also might have simply been amusing to the Chaos gods to snatch victory from their champion at the moment of his triumph...they aren't the most benevolent of entities.

Oh yes. If the Chaos Gods lose, it's because it was Tzeentch's plan. If that isn't a catch-22, I don't know what is. Please defend this position, it only furthers the justification of the Emperor being the most powerful being ever.

CommissarCandlestick wrote:

Lokirfellheart wrote:Emprah FTW!
I would say the chaos gods, but as mentioned earlier, they are reliant on humankind.

Does the Emperor not rely on huge armies of humans? He wouldn't be able to hold the Imperium of Man together if he didn't have his marines and Imperial Guard to protect him. I too say the Emperor, because in the end, he's the one with a galaxy spanning empire.

That's why it's called Most Powerful 40k Leader, not Most powerful individual. However, 'the Chaos Gods' isn't a leader. Even when they share the same goals, we are talking about different beings here. Neither are the C'tan, as they too are seperate individuals (with seperate goals). Nor can you say 'the Orks', they are a race and by no means united. 'Ghazgkull' would have been a better option. All in all, sorry OP but these aren't the best options.

shealyr wrote: Actually, I'd content that it was most definitely the true scope of the power of Chaos Undivided. As beings of the Immaterium, the Chaos gods can only channel their power through a mortal vessel or a Daemon. The Big E wasted the paragon of Chaos Undivided. Game, set, match for the Emperor.

Oh yes. If the Chaos Gods lose, it's because it was Tzeentch's plan. If that isn't a catch-22, I don't know what is. Please defend this position, it only furthers the justification of the Emperor being the most powerful being ever.

I am unsure that it could possibly be the full extent of the Chaos Pantheons powers, mainly due to the fact that if they can get pretty much get bitch-slapped by the Emperor whenever he wants, what was he worried about before that point in regards to them, and simply didn't go out, hunt them down Rambo style and slaughter/imprison them before corruption became an issue. I mean, if he can hold his own against the full might of the four while holding back because they're inhabiting his favourite son, then realise there's no redemption for Horus after being dealt a mortal blow and psychic pimp slap him down, there isn't a giant threat to his safety there is there?

As for the second half, there's several instances of the Chaos Gods abadoning their champion because they find it amusing at the time, or they've displeased them in some way. There's also alot of references to Tzeentch manipulating events, and even taking substantial losses to further a cause hundreds of years down the track (The Grey Knights Series emphasises this one). It was merely conjecture as to possible reasoning that they may have not wanted to win, other reasoning could have simply been another god wanting to stick up to one of the others, or simply not being able to channel enough power through Horus. The other point that they might like the current status quo is that while there is always the Great Game, when Horus failed, why did they simply not empower another, Abaddon perhaps during one of his Black Crusades, or another of the Daemon-Primarchs, and send him in to finish the job? The current status quo feeds the Chaos Gods with blood, hatred and fear, causing them to rise in power.

Perhaps the simple reason was that the Chaos Gods chose to fight another day. Sensed they were losing, and pulled out. We don't really know. The argument is pretty much pure conjecture, as we have no solid proof one way or the other.

I actually agreed that the Emperor was the most powerful leader in 40k. I simply find it hard to believe that the 'big nasty' of the Chaos Gods, beings that are constantly being striven against by the Emperor in the warp, at least if you listen to the Ordo Malleus, could be so handily defeated.

Yeah, Big E is pretty much the most powerful dude out there, both directly and indirectly.
Hell, if it wasn't for him right now, the Imperium would grind to a halt and we'd have Daemons all over.

Since the whole Chaos Gods as leaders theory is debunked, I voted for the Emperor on account of well yeah, hes bad ass. I can think of a thousand times a thousand reasons not to piss him off.

But I hardly think hes 'beating' the Chaos Gods in the warp, yes he's stopping major daemonic incursions left right and center, but 'containing' is completely different to outright kicking the Chaos God's butts.

Besides I honestly think they should all go wipe out damn Slaanesh. I hate that guy.

Chaos Lord Gir wrote:Besides I honestly think they should all go wipe out damn Slaanesh. I hate that guy.

Of course, the term "guy" is used loosely here.

/vote Emperor

I have heard although i cant remember where that there was some sort of psychic link between Horus and the 4 powers whilst they were channeling power into him, and when they saw the power of the emperor's full unleashed might they retreated out of fear that it may carry on through the link with horus into the warp and severely hurt if not outright kill them.

Emperor over Chaos gods? No way!!
How can a single individual, even the Emperor, compete with true Gods created from all the naughty emotions of the ENTIRE galaxy?

A servant of the Gods managed to cripple the emperor and don't forget they must work through petty and fragile mortals.

All hail the God-Emperor!

The Chaos gods knew exactly what they were doing when they mortally wounded the Emperor through Horus. The trick was to give Horus just enough juice to not outright kill him but put him in a position where HE would no longer be a coherent threat but the Imperium would still exist.

If they had killed the Emperor and Horus would have won, the new Chaos Imperium would go around killing anyone who was still loyal to the Emperor, that would take what a few centuries? The Chaos gods eternal hunger demands huge amounts of bloodshed to continue the balance. The reprocussions of Horus' victory would probably end the Chaos Gods sooner or later. (I refer you to that novel about the Alpha legion, when the Cabal is speaking to Alpharius.)

Now what they did is pretty smart. Let Horus almost kill the emperor and then run away at the last second. In one on one (or one on four) The emperor could have taken the Chaos gods and they knew this. One on one with Horus, that was a different story and the Chaos gods knew this too. They had been setting that plan in motion ever since they split the Primarchs up and scattered em to the wind.

The Chaos gods knew that the Emperor would hold back, not wanting to kill his most treasured friend and son, despite all that power the Emperor was still (at least part) human. And if their's one thing that humans have a weakness for, its compassion. The four gods used this fact to mortally wound the Emperor.

The Chaos gods' goal is not to kill the Imperium outright, though many people speak as if it is. Their goal is to have a never ending conflict to fuel their savage lusts. And thats just what they've gotten for the past 10,000 years.

Retribution wrote:The Hive Mind, the singularly combined psychic might of bazillions and bazillions and bazillions of organisms

This. It's basically a living, breathing, psychic super computer of pure terror and destruction.

Well said, WARORK93.

I believe that this is the end of that discussion.

why so many votes for the emperor? he is a rotting corpse on a golden toilet......im gpoing w/ the c'tan. undying gods with legoins of unkillable minions AND a tomb world right next to terra itself!

What a surprise judging by your username

wierdest thing is, i dont actually play necrons.......

necrongod wrote:why so many votes for the emperor? he is a rotting corpse on a golden toilet......im gpoing w/ the c'tan. undying gods with legoins of unkillable minions AND a tomb world right next to terra itself!

Now isnt it hinted at in fluff that the Emperor imprisoned the void dragon on mars? (although the void dragon was weakend)

Gibbsey wrote:

necrongod wrote:why so many votes for the emperor? he is a rotting corpse on a golden toilet......im gpoing w/ the c'tan. undying gods with legoins of unkillable minions AND a tomb world right next to terra itself!

Now isnt it hinted at in fluff that the Emperor imprisoned the void dragon on mars? (although the void dragon was weakend)

yes he did, but i dont think he counted on half of the adeptus mechanicus turning and folowing the void dragon

necrongod wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:

necrongod wrote:why so many votes for the emperor? he is a rotting corpse on a golden toilet......im gpoing w/ the c'tan. undying gods with legoins of unkillable minions AND a tomb world right next to terra itself!

Now isnt it hinted at in fluff that the Emperor imprisoned the void dragon on mars? (although the void dragon was weakend)

yes he did, but i dont think he counted on half of the adeptus mechanicus turning and folowing the void dragon

He put it there so that technology would never be completely lost, at least the mechanicus thinks they're worshiping the emperor (leaders of the mechanicus im not so sure about)

I got the impression that the mechanicus were worshipping the void dragon unknowingly

What I mean is that they thought it was the machine god but it is actually the void dragon, a C'tan

Isnt there a faction in the mechanicus that believes the emperor is the Omnissiah incarnate?

WARORK93 wrote:I got the impression that the mechanicus were worshipping the void dragon unknowingly

What I mean is that they thought it was the machine god but it is actually the void dragon, a C'tan

Isnt there a faction in the mechanicus that believes the emperor is the Omnissiah incarnate?

i think they all beleive the Omnissiah is a part of the emperor (and why the inquisition is so far okay with them, between them worshiping "part of the emperor" and being vital to the imperium the inquisition wont wipe them out)

One thing going against the C'Tan is that they actually have playable models, and thus people get to kill them. Makes 'em seem not that powerful.

The god emeror!

I can't find the post, but on recent thread with a similar line of discussion someone posted the Emperor may be absorbing the 1000 psykers sacrificed to him every day. I don't know if the fluff backs this up, but if it does wouldn't the Emperor actually be growing in power everyday? 365,000 psykers a year, 3,650,000,000 psykers a millennium. That's a lot of psychic energy.

Grass4hopper wrote:I can't find the post, but on recent thread with a similar line of discussion someone posted the Emperor may be absorbing the 1000 psykers sacrificed to him every day. I don't know if the fluff backs this up, but if it does wouldn't the Emperor actually be growing in power everyday? 365,000 psykers a year, 3,650,000,000 psykers a millennium. That's a lot of psychic energy.

No, the psykers are keeping him alive and helping focus the Astronomicon.

Yarrik. Every time you kill him, he staggers back to his feet. He can theoretically continue on for infinity.

Eldrad. He's so powerful, that he's in every competitive Eldar army. Even when they face each other.

What other ever plays for both teams?

scuddman wrote:Eldrad. He's so powerful, that he's in every competitive Eldar army. Even when they face each other.

What other ever plays for both teams?

He's dead, more so than the emperor.

Mr Nobody wrote:

scuddman wrote:Eldrad. He's so powerful, that he's in every competitive Eldar army. Even when they face each other.

What other ever plays for both teams?

He's dead, more so than the emperor.

They do have a point though.. he does get out more than The Big E.


"Yeah, okay, I'll come quietly mister Ordo Xenos Inquisitor.." *sigh*

The Emperor
/thread

I'd like to humbly point out that after months of referring to the Emperor as the Big E.....the terminology is spreading. That's step one of my plan, step two involves raising an army.