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No, i do not fear them. cuz what do i have to fear with kharn and berzerker rush No but seriously, they are sometimes hard to kill

CSM don't have any psychic defenses but they do have one of the best counters to Seer Council available: the Plague Marine.

You can throw one squad of Plague Marines at Seers and just forget about them for the next 4 turns.

I never feared them, the Inquisition was enough protection.

In my experience, most people who run Jetseer Councils will run a full council (9 warlocks or so) or a small one (4-5 warlocks), sometimes with an Autarch attached to it.

Does anyone have any experience facing TWO "mini-councils"? I'm curious as to how that would pan out. Especially in a competitive environment.

The seer council has a specific role. Killing tanks and MC's. There is no reason to throw them at a power-blob. I will template them away with my storm guardians or pie plates from my Fire Prism.

If you use the council correctly they will make their points back more than double. If you a kill Land Raider and a Deamon prince against CSM you have made you points back. There is no way for a plague marine squad to EVER engage the council. Unless the eldar player is really bad.

The SM codex and Null Zone is when playing councils became garbage.

Eldar have been dealing with hoods and the like for a while and with Embolden and Runes of Witnessing, the prospect of a hood is not totally scary. When Null Zone can get rid of JB councils rerolls, suddenly the prospect of loosing 1 in 3 instead of 1 in 9 against wounding shots makes 40+ point models not that appealing.

SW do a better job of countering the Fortune than standard SM so they are pretty good too.

Overall they can still dominate a game but when you approach 30% of your total points you want a guarantee not a maybe that it will be a game-changing add to your list.

DAaddict wrote:The SM codex and Null Zone is when playing councils became garbage.

Eldar have been dealing with hoods and the like for a while and with Embolden and Runes of Witnessing, the prospect of a hood is not totally scary. When Null Zone can get rid of JB councils rerolls, suddenly the prospect of loosing 1 in 3 instead of 1 in 9 against wounding shots makes 40+ point models not that appealing.

SW do a better job of countering the Fortune than standard SM so they are pretty good too.

Overall they can still dominate a game but when you approach 30% of your total points you want a guarantee not a maybe that it will be a game-changing add to your list.

How does RoWit and embolden make the hood any less scary? Null Zone is indeed devastating but casting it will more often than not result in the libby taking a PotW hit. With that said it is not a bad idea at all to run dual Farseers in a council.

He may be getting a Hood confused with some of the other psychic defense out there (like R of Ward or Shadows of the Warp).

Runes of Witnessing and Embolden do nothing to change the effectiveness of a Hood, unfortunately.

Seer councils are still scary if used properly. Runes of Warding takes care of any Librarian foolish enough to cast Null zone. Odds are he will take Perils alot during the game, and he only has 2 wounds. They can take on vehicles and monstrous creatures very easily, and if equiped with heavy flamers can also make short work of infantry. Doom and fortune are incredible psychic powers, and can change the tide of battle easily. I cant wait to see 5th edition Eldar, I have a feeling well see even more interesting and useful psychic powers from Eldar.

The massive amount of psychic defense out there (especially with the most common tournament armies) makes them not as attractive an option. If they don't get fortune off, they're toast.

Too much rock/paper/scissors for my taste. Some times they'll be awesome, other times they'll be a waste of 500+ points.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:If you use it correctly, it can kill almost any unit out there in the 40k universe.
My biggest fear is nullzone, nothing else.

And, if on foot, Incinerators and Psycannons. There is nothing more hilarious than telling your Eldar opponent that his Council just got gak to pieces and that they're not allowed to save at all...

Things like Psycannons are the reason I still take one Warlock with Conceal in the Council.

Ailaros wrote:No.

Power blobs > jetbike council. Even when they have crappy luck and don't kill them straight away, you've just tarpitted a very expensive unit for basically the entire game.

And if they're assaulting a power blob, then they deserve to be tarpitted. 6 destructor templates should make cutting through a power blob much easier.

I don't fear seercouncils but they are annoying to kill. Most deathstar units in the game put seercouncils at a disadvantage. Nullzone is a pain. Bloodcrushers are a bigger pain and with how combat resolution works, you can lose 600-700 points in 1 round.

NULLZONE and FORTUNE is LOL, one causes you to reroll MISSES and the other SUCCESS rolls.

If this actually happens you have to roll twice neglecting everything in the first roll, no matter what it was, it's quite silly.

Augustus wrote:NULLZONE and FORTUNE is LOL, one causes you to reroll MISSES and the other SUCCESS rolls.

If this actually happens you have to roll twice neglecting everything in the first roll, no matter what it was, it's quite silly.

Actually, most people just play that the first save roll sticks, regardless if it's a save or a fail. It saves a lot of unnecessary rolling.

Things like Psycannons are the reason I still take one Warlock with Conceal in the Council.

That's a good point, especially when the new DH come out and one will eventually see more DH armies in the future.

Now that 6th is out, how does everyone feel about this question? I'm curious. Does anyone play JB Seer Councils?

Holy Thread Necro!!!

Why not just start a new one instead of commiting this heinous act?!?!?

They're as garbage as ever.

If anyone tells you there was a time they weren't garbage, they are mistaken. They've never been worth the cost. People just overreacted to something they saw on paper, not in an actual game.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
They're as garbage as ever.

If anyone tells you there was a time they weren't garbage, they are mistaken. They've never been worth the cost. People just overreacted to something they saw on paper, not in an actual game.

yeah, the current harlystar is scarrier and even it isnt all that great.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alerian wrote:
Holy Thread Necro!!!

Why not just start a new one instead of commiting this heinous act?!?!?

two years dead

There's no "defense" vs fortune now........... However, terminators are more common.

You people seriously underestimate invisibility powered councils. Look at Matt DeFranza's list. Second at BFS, won 2nd bracket at NOVA. Invisibility councils with fortune stacked are damn near impossible to kill and they can do a fair bit of damage to infantry while taking little in return due to being hit on a 5+. Not to mention that with the addition of allies it is possible to give councils hit and run with Baron.

I do agree that coucils can be a bit too top-heavy, but it is pure ignorance to fully dismiss them. I think DeFranza's list provides solid proof of that.

I'm not underestimating them at all. I know that they can be very, very potent. My general stat is to tarpit them them, not kill them.

Seer councils are very situational. If you run against the right opponents, it can wreck. However, it is quite weak in melee and VERY expensive. a full bike council with invis/fortune farseers is ~700 points (needs 2 farseers). Throw in baron for a 800 point unit., If your opponent tries to shoot it down, its unkillable, however, it suffers from being unable to kill enough to make its point value. It can only be in one place on the map and the necessity to knock units off multiple objectives while defending your own smaller quantity of troops make the unit very easy to deal with.

If i see one, im never worried. Simply know how to deal with them. Reserve all your troop choices, spread your vehicles out, and get them in melee as often as possible. Get that fist into a challenge with a farseer.Kill the fortune farseer or deny his power and the unit ends up with a 3+/3++ save making it no harder to kill to quantity of fire than marines at more than 3x the cost.

Seer councils are pretty bad. They rely so much on fortune and this edition was not kind to relying on one model in a unit.

Why would you reserve all your troops?

Also, you can't deny fortune. You can't deny any buffs in 6th edition.

Allying in eldar or SW bring Runes of Warding or Rune Priests which can both deny buffs and are very good at doing both. Nids also deny buffs with shadows.

Reserving troops means that you have a minimal ability to kill my scoring troops. In most codexes troops are largely point-damage ineffective. Seer councils largely rely on mobility and making my reactionary mobility able to combat your natural mobility with just my general troops means you lose a big portion of the appeal of those units. If i can bring my troops onto an objective on the other side of the board it makes you waste yet another turn turbo boosting over there to deal with them. Its playing the mission rather than necessarily dealing with the council.

Martel732 wrote:
Why would you reserve all your troops?

Also, you can't deny fortune. You can't deny any buffs in 6th edition.

SW can deny ANY power on 4+, Njal on a 3+

Okay. let me rephrase. Buffs can't be denied via Deny the Witch. That's what I meant by "denying". I am well aware of the Eldar and Tyranids. Didn't know the space wolves could do it too. Thanks for the heads up.

zephoid wrote:
Get that fist into a challenge with a farseer.

Warlocks are still characters. No Eldar player using a seer council should ever allow this. Certain armies can block Eldar powers much more often than Eldar would like, yes, but that's army specific. And while there is a huge cry of "Just ally a Farseer", actual instances of that have been fairly low because you're forced to bring in a weak troop as well to hard counter one army and not gain much versus other, currently stronger, armies.

zephoid wrote:
Allying in eldar or SW bring Runes of Warding or Rune Priests which can both deny buffs and are very good at doing both. Nids also deny buffs with shadows.

Reserving troops means that you have a minimal ability to kill my scoring troops. In most codexes troops are largely point-damage ineffective. Seer councils largely rely on mobility and making my reactionary mobility able to combat your natural mobility with just my general troops means you lose a big portion of the appeal of those units. If i can bring my troops onto an objective on the other side of the board it makes you waste yet another turn turbo boosting over there to deal with them. Its playing the mission rather than necessarily dealing with the council.

Hmm. BA vehicles can move 24" in a single turn, so I think I could force turbo boosts without having to reserve the troops. I really, really, dislike reserving units I don't have to. I usually find that an assault squad with FNP keeps the seer council busy a long, long time. DC can actually kill some if they get the drop and assault.

Martel732 wrote:
I'm not underestimating them at all. I know that they can be very, very potent. My general stat is to tarpit them them, not kill them.

That's why you ally with DE for the HQ that gives the squad Hit & Run.

They're now a Highly mobile unit. Fairly killy with the "flamers", being able to reroll psy powers with embolden is just silly.

A guy won out a local tourney with them. Ran through GK,Necrons, and Nids IIRC.
Wish I had been there. Orks always win