Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

6s wound and ignore armor.


thats about it though.

you would need lots of rends to kill it.

Ya I figured as much but I decided to ask anyway. Thanks for the advice everyone, this should be helpful!

Rending is extra nice, I'd think. It gives models with low strength a chance, plus it would ignore the 2+ armor. So the difference between a power fist and something with rending against this thing is that the Str 8 wounds on 5+ instead of just 6+. Getting a lot of rending attacks might be more cost effective than a lot of high strength attacks.

I believe that its value in assaulting Hammernators (30, IIRC) will kill it in one round, even with it's 3++ save.

Here's my calculation (I'm going from memory on some of these figures, so please correct if you have the 'Dex on you):
30 Models
3 Attacks/Model Charging
WS 4 --> WS 3
S8 --> T8
3++ Save

30*3*(2/3)*(1/2)*(1/3)=10

For the points of 1 Hierophant have the following:

5 SW lords on TW mounts

Powerfist, Stormshield, Wolftooth talisman, saga of the bear.

25 Attacks not charging, hits on 3s and wounds on 2s

Its 50/50 on 1 shotting the Hierophant.

Emperor Battle Titan w/ 6 laser blasters, 2 vengeance cannons - 4000 pts

Belieive that is 26 D shots per turn.

Suck it non imperials.

Tri wrote:

Devastator wrote:

VikingScott wrote:Now your being pedantic. And irritating.

Read throught your posts on this thread and decide if there actually helpful because I'm having trouble justifying them.

Welcome to my ignore list. Goodbye

so using real rules is irritating for you?

he can't see this unless some one reposts it for you ... to be frank I don't agree with using the ignore function as that's not a debate (more la la la i'm not listening)

... in this case we have a monster made to be used with the last rule book now given a massive boost by the new. Since Apoc is more about an epic battle; debating if you give it all the new toys is valid ... I'm not sure that a 3++ is fair for its points see but that's me.

1250 for a 3++ Heirophant would be cheap. But then, a warhound titan with 2 turbo lazers (that's 4 Strength D Pie Plates that ignore cover, auto wound and auto-instant death) is a paultry 750 or so. Best bet is bringing two of these War"Gods" to the table and wacking the Bio-Titan with 8 unsaved wounds a turn.

I am surprised no one has mentioned this yet:

Multiple WH Inq. Lords with Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows (or Power Stakes if you're feeling frisky/suicidal).

Hierophant: Psyker? Check!

Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows: Assault 2 with 24" range wounding Psykers on a 2+ with no armor save allowed? Check!

Can be taken on multiple cheap models? Check!

If you can get within the 24" needed, multiple Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows seem to be the BEST way to deal with the beast. About the only downsides are the short range (for Apoc anyway) and that they are Combi so only one use per. But for the points it is a steal with so few needed to take down so many. Oh and they still get their Invul save, but with its older (arguable) 6++ , should be no problem still.

Edited for clarity.

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned this yet:

Multiple WH Inq. Lords with Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows (or Power Stakes if you're feeling frisky/suicidal).

Hierophant: Psyker? Check!

Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows: Assault 2 with 24" range wounding Psykers on a 2+ with no armor save allowed? Check!

Can be taken on multiple cheap models? Check!

If you can get within the 24" needed, multiple Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows seem to be the BEST way to deal with the beast. About the only downsides are the short range (for Apoc anyway) and that they are Combi so only one use per. But for the points it is a steal with so few needed to take down so many. Oh and they still get their Invul save, but with its older (arguable) 6++ , should be no problem still.

Edited for clarity.

Poison weapons only wound on 6's ... so you need about 80

Agonisers anyone?

Tri wrote:

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned this yet:

Multiple WH Inq. Lords with Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows (or Power Stakes if you're feeling frisky/suicidal).

Hierophant: Psyker? Check!

Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows: Assault 2 with 24" range wounding Psykers on a 2+ with no armor save allowed? Check!

Can be taken on multiple cheap models? Check!

If you can get within the 24" needed, multiple Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows seem to be the BEST way to deal with the beast. About the only downsides are the short range (for Apoc anyway) and that they are Combi so only one use per. But for the points it is a steal with so few needed to take down so many. Oh and they still get their Invul save, but with its older (arguable) 6++ , should be no problem still.

Edited for clarity.

Poison weapons only wound on 6's ... so you need about 80

Not poison weapon, special rule

Tri wrote:

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned this yet:

Multiple WH Inq. Lords with Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows (or Power Stakes if you're feeling frisky/suicidal).

Hierophant: Psyker? Check!

Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows: Assault 2 with 24" range wounding Psykers on a 2+ with no armor save allowed? Check!

Can be taken on multiple cheap models? Check!

If you can get within the 24" needed, multiple Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows seem to be the BEST way to deal with the beast. About the only downsides are the short range (for Apoc anyway) and that they are Combi so only one use per. But for the points it is a steal with so few needed to take down so many. Oh and they still get their Invul save, but with its older (arguable) 6++ , should be no problem still.

Edited for clarity.

Poison weapons only wound on 6's ... so you need about 80

Not poison weapons. Anti-Psyker weapon. Emphasis mine.

stakes? crossbows? Sounds like they belong to Inquisitor Lord Van Helsing.

Dammit, now that's another one for my "to convert" list.

Grey Templar wrote:6s wound and ignore armor.


thats about it though.

you would need lots of rends to kill it.

Now I want to take 1200 points worth of Penal Legion troopers into hand to hand with it.

That's 15 squads. An average of 5 of them will have knife fighter. If they get the charge. 150 rending attacks!!! (Minus 50 for lash whips)

It's an awful idea, but it would be so much fun to watch.

Except they would all die if they didn't kill it outright.....

ChrisWWII wrote:Except they would all die if they didn't kill it outright.....

So? That'd be fun to watch too.



I need to start working on my conversions if I'm going to get 150 of these guys put together by the next Apoc. game.

Mathhammer time!

For Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows!

Using the standard BS 4 for Inq/Inq Lords shooting with the Hierophant not getting cover and with the 6++:

To hit (2/3) * To wound (5/6) * Failed Invul Save (5/6) = 25/54 = .463 unsaved wounds.

Being Assault 2, you would need just over 10, so 11 Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows. Buying just the Inquisitors and weapons would be just over 300 points at minimum and just over 600 if you went with Inq Lords (not counting required retinue). Getting them there is another problem.

Now using the BS 5 of Inq/Inq Lords with a Sage (not counting re-roll) in the same situation:

To hit (5/6) * To wound (5/6) * Failed Invul Save (5/6) = 125/216 = .579 unsaved wounds.

Again being Assault 2 weapons, you would need just over 8, so 9 Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows to take it down in one round of shooting. Again, just over 300 points for Inquisitor, weapon and Sage, or just over 500 points with Inq Lords, weapon and Sage (other retinue not included).

So for about 1/4 the cost of the Bio-Titan, it could be killed with Inquisitors with Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows.

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Mathhammer time!

For Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows!

Using the standard BS 4 for Inq/Inq Lords shooting with the Hierophant not getting cover and with the 6++:

To hit (2/3) * To wound (5/6) * Failed Invul Save (5/6) = 25/54 = .463 unsaved wounds.

Being Assault 2, you would need just over 10, so 11 Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows. Buying just the Inquisitors and weapons would be just over 300 points at minimum and just over 600 if you went with Inq Lords (not counting required retinue). Getting them there is another problem.

Now using the BS 5 of Inq/Inq Lords with a Sage (not counting re-roll) in the same situation:

To hit (5/6) * To wound (5/6) * Failed Invul Save (5/6) = 125/216 = .579 unsaved wounds.

Again being Assault 2 weapons, you would need just over 8, so 9 Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows to take it down in one round of shooting. Again, just over 300 points for Inquisitor, weapon and Sage, or just over 500 points with Inq Lords, weapon and Sage (other retinue not included).

So for about 1/4 the cost of the Bio-Titan, it could be killed with Inquisitors with Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows.

Of course this would be much more costly if the 3++ save is in play.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Of course this would be much more costly if the 3++ save is in play.

Without showing my work, just over 800 points with the 3++ in play for Inquisitors and weapon, with the need for 27 Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows. With Sages, comes to needing 22 Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows again coming out at just around 800 points. Too lazy to do maths for Inq Lord, just firgure on being more expensive, also too lazy to work in the re-rolls for Sage(s). Still not bad for one of the nastiest non-vehicle units to be taken down by 2/3 the point cost for said nasty creature.

Edit: And that's with the new (debatable) 3++.

So what we've learnt from this thread is that the best way to take down the biggest, baddest, son of a dominatrix the world of 40K has ever seen...

... is with a Crossbow?

I'm pretty sure, although I don't have my copy of Apocalypse here to check, that Gargantuan creatures are wounded on a 6+ by anything that wounds on a fixed value. I don't think it's limited to Poison, merely that Poison is an example. So that would make crossbows pretty useless.

Just Dave wrote:So what we've learnt from this thread is that the best way to take down the biggest, baddest, son of a dominatrix the world of 40K has ever seen...

... is with a Crossbow?

Er...more or less, yes. But its not just a crossbow, its a Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbow! So even after using the Stake Crossbow, you have a perfectly good bolter!

Chrysis wrote:I'm pretty sure, although I don't have my copy of Apocalypse here to check, that Gargantuan creatures are wounded on a 6+ by anything that wounds on a fixed value. I don't think it's limited to Poison, merely that Poison is an example. So that would make crossbows pretty useless.

The rule in the Apoc book says "all sniper and poisoned weapons wound on a 6", so if something else wounded on a fixed value but lacked either the poison or sniper rule, it would still wound at that fixed value.

Chrysis wrote:I'm pretty sure, although I don't have my copy of Apocalypse here to check, that Gargantuan creatures are wounded on a 6+ by anything that wounds on a fixed value. I don't think it's limited to Poison, merely that Poison is an example. So that would make crossbows pretty useless.

That would be a negative. The relevant rules are in the Apocalypse rule book on page 90 under main heading 'Gargantuan Creatures' under subheading of 'Special Rules', 5th paragraph, first (only) sentence, "All sniper and poisoned weapons wound gargantuan creatures only on a roll of 6." Whether it is an oversight that ALL weapons that wound on a fixed value were left out, or more likely the authors just didn't think of an almost never used piece of war gear from a 3rd edition (yet still current) codex.

Either way, Combi Bolter-Stake Crossbows work just fine against psyker gargantuan creatures as that weapon is neither type sniper nor poisoned.

That clears that up then. Looks like pointy pieces of wood are one of the best ways to kill a Hierophant. I suspect it probably was an oversight, much like the Heirophant RAW being immune to it's own psychic powers, but it's very clear exactly what it does.

It would be nice if they'd errata some of the Apoc stuff to bring it into line with 5th and the new codexes. There are a number of things they broke that it'd be nice to have an official line on clearing up. Specifically I'm thinking of the interaction between Flyers, Skimmer Moving Fast, and Eldar Titan Holo-fields.

Ya it would have been nice if they had FAQed some of this into Apoc: Reload.

Marneus with a toothpick always works.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Also, could Rending weapons be theoretically effective?

It is if you get enough of it. My ideal way would be charging it with a bunch of deamonettes in with skarbrand nearby, if there are 4 squads (even at low numbers) then it's losing half it's attacks and evry 5 or 6 daemonettes would be a wound, so at 14 points each (plus 300 for skarbrand) it's rather cost effective. Eitheer that or send it's equal cost in bloodthirsters (5 of them could do 2/3's of it's wounds. A problem with almost all of these types of tacticcs is the setup required (and for them to move and let you pull it off).

The problem with the rending is the fact that they can either break combat and shoot you, destroy something else, or let the 100 following guants eat you. It's real power isn't in killing (unless it get's a titan), it's in distracting you from the part of their army that will win them the game.

I think it's obvious, but Broadsies would kill it dead. You could get 17 of them for the same cost. They would likely kill it dead in one round of shooting with some Marker light support.

I think that it's pretty darn sweet, but I would rather have two of those smaller beasties.

Rending is a good idea I must say as well.

What is it that rends on 5s and 6s? An Eldar unit, I think. That sounds like it might have a good chance compared to most things in the same price range.

Railguns are probably pretty good. If you took a mix of broadsides and the vehicle mounted railguns, that would give blast templates to help with the rest of the 'nids.