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I still say a Vortex Deathstrike Missile at long range followed up by a couple turns of just pounding away with lascannons and other nasty things, with a Titanhammer Squad to finish it off should kill it just fine.

Of course, this means you'll be shooting everything you've got at the Hierophant, which is probably exactly what the Nid player wants.

As far as Nemesis Force Weapons go, have fun trying to wound T9 with a S4 weapon. In addition, Gargantuan creatures are IMMUNE to ALL psychic powers, including force weapon psychic tests.

Also to be noted: you can't 'tie up' a gargantuan creature with anything short of a titan or another gargantuan creature. All other types of models automatically break 1" at the end of combat resolution, regardless of who won combat. CC is not the way to go vs the hierophant.

Vortex grenades and Lukas the trickster are your only high-chance ways to pop this bug, or bear down on S-D weaponry from a baneblade variant or warlord titan. Alternatively, if you have 4 or 5 terminus ultra pattern landraiders (with 5 lascannons on each one) i have seen them take down a hierophant in as little as two turns.

NFWs are Str6.

tetrisphreak wrote: In addition, Gargantuan creatures are IMMUNE to ALL psychic powers, including force weapon psychic tests.

this also effects warp shield(?) so no inv for -phant! also it don't get updated warp shield as it only affects zoanthropes

ChrisWWII wrote:I still say a Vortex Deathstrike Missile at long range followed up by a couple turns of just pounding away with lascannons and other nasty things, with a Titanhammer Squad to finish it off should kill it just fine.

Of course, this means you'll be shooting everything you've got at the Hierophant, which is probably exactly what the Nid player wants.

Ya exactly, I'm not sure how many other Super-Heavies will be there, but I would be surprised if I didn't see a Stompa or 2 (this is gonna be a team game, Imperium vs Xenos most likely)...

It also depends if the player is using the revised Heirophant bio-morphs from the latest nid dex or the ones it had when the apoc book came out.

(I don't know if this has been faq'd)

New books says Warp Feild is 3++ and lash whips make you strike at I1

Devastator wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote: In addition, Gargantuan creatures are IMMUNE to ALL psychic powers, including force weapon psychic tests.

this also effects warp shield(?) so no inv for -phant! also it don't get updated warp shield as it only affects zoanthropes

That is correct. The Warp Shield psychic power doesn't apply to the Hierophant. Edited - No such save exists on the statline.

As to the NFW being S6, i was unaware of that fact. Sorry. However the fact remains that gargantuans are immune to psychic powers.

VikingScott wrote:New books says Warp Feild is 3++

it also says it gives zoanthrope 3++
is the phant zoanthrope?

tetrisphreak wrote:As far as Nemesis Force Weapons go, have fun trying to wound T9 with a S4 weapon. In addition, Gargantuan creatures are IMMUNE to ALL psychic powers, including force weapon psychic tests.

I wasn't aware of this, so I just looked it up. Gargantuans actually take d3 wounds from anything that would cause ID of any sort. So it's not immune to the force weapon, but it modifies it. Also the S6 thing, but that was mentioned already.

the Test for a Force Weapon is cast on the Wielder of the FW, NOT the creature getting killed.


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ElCheezus wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:As far as Nemesis Force Weapons go, have fun trying to wound T9 with a S4 weapon. In addition, Gargantuan creatures are IMMUNE to ALL psychic powers, including force weapon psychic tests.

I wasn't aware of this, so I just looked it up. Gargantuans actually take d3 wounds from anything that would cause ID of any sort. So it's not immune to the force weapon, but it modifies it. Also the S6 thing, but that was mentioned already.

Which can't save the Biotitan as DH force weapons don't cause ID. they remove all your wounds

Grey Templar wrote:the Test for a Force Weapon is cast on the Wielder of the FW, NOT the creature getting killed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ElCheezus wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:As far as Nemesis Force Weapons go, have fun trying to wound T9 with a S4 weapon. In addition, Gargantuan creatures are IMMUNE to ALL psychic powers, including force weapon psychic tests.

I wasn't aware of this, so I just looked it up. Gargantuans actually take d3 wounds from anything that would cause ID of any sort. So it's not immune to the force weapon, but it modifies it. Also the S6 thing, but that was mentioned already.

Which can't save the Biotitan as DH force weapons don't cause ID. they remove all your wounds

Now you're getting rules-lawyery in the most casual and fun variety of 40k. Also, the Apoc book mentions "anything that would normally kill a model automatically" being converted to d3. I think "removing all wounds" plainly counts as that.

Plus, the things costs 1200 some points. I think its fair to say that anything that doesn't actually take multiple rounds of serious effort is probably a cheap way of killing it.

Agreed. Like i said, with the new rules for warp shield, the best the 'phant can do is a 5++ cover save from a venomthrope, and S-D weapons ignore cover. Alternatively laying down lascannon fire from across the table for a couple of turns should yield decent results, considering the return fire from the beast will only hit on 4's (missing half it's shots) and then if you're in cover you can throw a 4+ cover save on any wounds it causes, all while laying down suppressive laser fire until it's a smoking corpse.

If you're looking for cheap killy death just suicide a lukas the trickster with some blood claws in a drop pod, and hope he takes the bait.

Devastator wrote:

VikingScott wrote:New books says Warp Feild is 3++

it also says it gives zoanthrope 3++
is the phant zoanthrope?

Now your being pedantic. And irritating.

Read throught your posts on this thread and decide if there actually helpful because I'm having trouble justifying them.

Welcome to my ignore list. Goodbye

VikingScott wrote:Now your being pedantic. And irritating.

so using real rules is irritating for you?

A 3++ on a T9 ten-wound creature would be beyond ridiculous. Again, we're trying to have a fun game. When even Thunderhammers wound on 5+, this thing is going to take a while to kill as-is. I, for one, think it makes perfect sense to limit the 3++ Warp Field to Zoanthropes.

Devastator wrote:

VikingScott wrote:Now your being pedantic. And irritating.

Read throught your posts on this thread and decide if there actually helpful because I'm having trouble justifying them.

Welcome to my ignore list. Goodbye

so using real rules is irritating for you?

he can't see this unless some one reposts it for you ... to be frank I don't agree with using the ignore function as that's not a debate (more la la la i'm not listening)

... in this case we have a monster made to be used with the last rule book now given a massive boost by the new. Since Apoc is more about an epic battle; debating if you give it all the new toys is valid ... I'm not sure that a 3++ is fair for its points see but that's me.

Grey Knight Terminators with a grand master will kill it. Also, orbital strikes. They are in the DH or WH book. There is no limit to what you can bring in an APOC game. So bring 10 lance strikes.

Happygrunt wrote:Grey Knight Terminators with a grand master will kill it. Also, orbital strikes. They are in the DH or WH book. There is no limit to what you can bring in an APOC game. So bring 10 lance strikes.

We've discussed the GK force weapons already. It's kinda ridiculous to expect your 145 point model take out a 1200+ point one the first time it connects with one hit. Also, it's covered in the Apoc rules.

As for lance strikes, well, they scatter a lot and have to be focused on a piece of terrain. Gargantuans move 12", so they'll clear any terrain even if they got caught by to begin with.

Sniper Rifles anyone?

The Gargantuan Creature Special rule says that it's immune to psychic powers that do NOT have a Strength value. So yes, you can't take force weapon tests against them, but you can hurt them with psychic shooting attacks.

At the risk of quoting too much from a GW product: "All gargantuan creatures are immune to the Instant Death rule. In addition, because they are so powerful, they are not affected by any attack that would normally kill a model automatically (like a Force Weapon, an attack that kills as a result of a failed Characteristic test, etc.). Such attacks cause D3 wounds instead." p 91 Apocalypse

So Force Weapons are allowed to affect it, but they don't kill it. They inflict D3 wounds, like I've said three times now.

Also, re: sniper rifles, poisoned weapons and sniper rifles wound on 6 instead of 4+, also per the rules for gargantuan creatures. Again p 91.

He is correct, so the massed Dark Eldar weaponry plan won't work.

I would still argue that force weapons can not do more than inflict one standard wound on the Biotitan. The same page also says that it is immune to all psychic powers that do not have a strength value. Causing instant death does not have a strength value, therefore force weapons can not inflict d3 wounds. They only cause the standard 1 wound that any other weapon would inflict.

The parenthetical explanation in there that mentions force weapons and characteristic tests is in the book, it's not my words. So they specifically mentioned a force weapon's result against a gargantuan. If that weren't there, I'd agree with you.

Vindicare assasins?

take 3, maby four

maby even 6...http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180095_Imperial_Guard_Datasheet_-_Officio_Assassinorum_Execution_Force.pdf

Land Raider Terminus Ultra. Seriously, there's nothing it can't do.

ElCheezus wrote:The parenthetical explanation in there that mentions force weapons and characteristic tests is in the book, it's not my words. So they specifically mentioned a force weapon's result against a gargantuan. If that weren't there, I'd agree with you.

Hmm, well yes, I guess the fact that they mention it DOES mean that the Force Weapon test can be taken...I'm guessing force weapons are an exception to the 'unaffected by psychic' powers rule, then.

Linebreaker Formation. 10 Vindicators open fire, it's gonna die.

Waricck wrote:Land Raider Terminus Ultra. Seriously, there's nothing it can't do.

can't do green tides

Can't do D-weapons
Can't do multiple deff-rollas
Can't do MC's
Can't do vortex grenades
Can't do lance weapons
The list goes on.

ElCheezus wrote:Plus, the things costs 1200 some points. I think its fair to say that anything that doesn't actually take multiple rounds of serious effort is probably a cheap way of killing it.

Exactly, as much as the Hierophant freaks me out, I'm seriously looking forward to fighting it. If the guy who owns it doesn't show up, I'm gonna be sad.

Also, could Rending weapons be theoretically effective?