Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Eldar Pathfinders.

Rolls for 6 to hit are Ap1. 5s and 6s to wound will rend.

Of course, I'm guessing Pathfinders still have the Sniper special rule? In which case, only a roll of 6 will wound a gargantuan creature. That 6 will of course, rend and be AP1, but it has to be a 6.

O'shovah wrote:The problem with the rending is the fact that they can either break combat and shoot you, destroy something else, or let the 100 following guants eat you. It's real power isn't in killing (unless it get's a titan), it's in distracting you from the part of their army that will win them the game.

Ya that's what I've been thinking, and it will be even worse if a Stompa or 2 show up at the Apoc game too. I'm just hoping that we can kill or severely wound it within 2 turns without it killing my transports as they secure objectives.

ChrisWWII wrote:Of course, I'm guessing Pathfinders still have the Sniper special rule? In which case, only a roll of 6 will wound a gargantuan creature. That 6 will of course, rend and be AP1, but it has to be a 6.

If it's a Pathfinder special rule on top of the Sniper rule, then it should still work. We're looking at the Rending part instead of the "snipers wound on 4+" part.

Was there also a CC unit that had the same thing going on, rending on 5s?

Pathfinder's have their own rule that they rend on 5+ rather then on 6s.

pathfinder rule doesn't do anything
on a hit roll of 5-6 they get AP 1
.... then roll to wound using sniper


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ElCheezus wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:Of course, I'm guessing Pathfinders still have the Sniper special rule? In which case, only a roll of 6 will wound a gargantuan creature. That 6 will of course, rend and be AP1, but it has to be a 6.

If it's a Pathfinder special rule on top of the Sniper rule, then it should still work. We're looking at the Rending part instead of the "snipers wound on 4+" part.

Was there also a CC unit that had the same thing going on, rending on 5s?

daemons skull taker (can't remember the real name) ?

Hmmm, ok then. I'mn guessing that rule overules the Gargantuan Creature's rule as it's more specific.

Epicwargamer wrote:^Pic^

.... on the other hand you're now facing 3 Hierophant, as he costs 4000pts

Epicwargamer wrote:[IMG]^^^^^^^^[IMG]

Look in the background, they have the tower of orthanc

Where is this store? I need to marvel at it in reality.

I'm amazed that no one i saw posted....


dark eldar volume of poison fire weapons.

eldar pathfinder snipers getting ap 1 of a 5+ to hit and an ap2 on a 6 to wound.

so in theory as it costs 800 points that would be 33 eldar pathfinders.

22 hits of which 7 are ap 1

so 15 wounds from regular shots 2 are ap 2 + 3 wounds at ap 1, netting 13 armor saves at 2+ + 5 inv saves at 3+

so ive taken 3-4 wounds turn one at 36". his shots back are almost worthless 10 shots at bs 3 with a 2+ cover save maybe he kills 2-3 guys.

Posion weapons wound on a 6+ with Gargantuan Creatures, so Dark Eldar mass poisoned spam won't work.

Eldar Pathfinders sound like the best way to kill it outside of titan class weaponary. Although we've forgotten that the OP plays Space WOlves, so all this talk of Eldar snipers is entirerly pointless.

haha well no worries, it's still interesting seeing how it can be done.

I actually faced a Heirophant at an Apoc game three months ago...it was team Apoc and I played Daemons and my partner played CSM. He took the vortex grenade, which wounded the Heirophant. We attacked it with Abaddon, a Bloodthirster and Daemon Prince, finally killing it.

But the most beautiful thing was using a daemon asset I took control of it for one of its shooting phases and used the big guns against it's own troops. That was hilarious.

But to get to the point: we contacted Gamesworkshop about it's warpfield and the zoanthrope question...and the answer is neither: it doesn't get the Zoanthrope field, and it doesn't lose the field it currently has. It keeps the field it has as written in the Apoc book. So you'll need to know that for your planning. The new codex doesn't address the heirophant's field...so it keeps it. At least that's what GW ruled, and we went with that during my tournie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tetrisphreak wrote:

Devastator wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote: In addition, Gargantuan creatures are IMMUNE to ALL psychic powers, including force weapon psychic tests.

this also effects warp shield(?) so no inv for -phant! also it don't get updated warp shield as it only affects zoanthropes

That is correct. The Warp Shield psychic power doesn't apply to the Hierophant. Edited - No such save exists on the statline.

As to the NFW being S6, i was unaware of that fact. Sorry. However the fact remains that gargantuans are immune to psychic powers.

As stated above...incorrect. Heirophant gets save as written in APoc book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Devastator wrote:

VikingScott wrote:New books says Warp Feild is 3++

it also says it gives zoanthrope 3++
is the phant zoanthrope?

Not a zoanthrope...but just because their saves are labeled the same thing doesn't mean they are the same power. That's what GW said...the Heirophant gets the APOC version as written.

Shenra wrote:I actually faced a Heirophant at an Apoc game three months ago...it was team Apoc and I played Daemons and my partner played CSM. He took the vortex grenade, which wounded the Heirophant. We attacked it with Abaddon, a Bloodthirster and Daemon Prince, finally killing it.

But the most beautiful thing was using a daemon asset I took control of it for one of its shooting phases and used the big guns against it's own troops. That was hilarious.

But to get to the point: we contacted Gamesworkshop about it's warpfield and the zoanthrope question...and the answer is neither: it doesn't get the Zoanthrope field, and it doesn't lose the field it currently has. It keeps the field it has as written in the Apoc book. So you'll need to know that for your planning. The new codex doesn't address the heirophant's field...so it keeps it. At least that's what GW ruled, and we went with that during my tournie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tetrisphreak wrote:

Devastator wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote: In addition, Gargantuan creatures are IMMUNE to ALL psychic powers, including force weapon psychic tests.

this also effects warp shield(?) so no inv for -phant! also it don't get updated warp shield as it only affects zoanthropes

That is correct. The Warp Shield psychic power doesn't apply to the Hierophant. Edited - No such save exists on the statline.

As to the NFW being S6, i was unaware of that fact. Sorry. However the fact remains that gargantuans are immune to psychic powers.

As stated above...incorrect. Heirophant gets save as written in APoc book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Devastator wrote:

VikingScott wrote:New books says Warp Feild is 3++

it also says it gives zoanthrope 3++
is the phant zoanthrope?

Not a zoanthrope...but just because their saves are labeled the same thing doesn't mean they are the same power. That's what GW said...the Heirophant gets the APOC version as written.

Where is Warp Field written? In the rules it just says "the Hierophant is a psyker that has the Warp Field power", but doesn't specify what this does. I'm assuming it gets the 4th ed. 2+/6++ ruling?

10 Death Company with a Chaplain do it easily. I diced it out a few times and they always did 5-10 wounds extra. This is assuming they get the charge though.

I am always amused that it is ok for the opponent to have rules that do nothing. Especially if they are Tyranids.

It's not just eternal warrior, it's immune to psychic powers that don't have a strength value and force weapons

Spellbound wrote:It's not just eternal warrior, it's immune to psychic powers that don't have a strength value and force weapons

This has been covered already. Force Weapons do affect gargantuans, and it's specifically mentioned in the rules for them what they do instead of ID.

Just think of it like this...the psychic power doesn't effect the gargantuan creature...it affects the weapon, making it a force weapon.

Shenra wrote:Just think of it like this...the psychic power doesn't effect the gargantuan creature...it affects the weapon, making it a force weapon.

Even though it specifically mentions Force Weapons in the rule

I think we should just switch are thought process a bit. Right now were basically trying to find out a way to kill the thing in one turn. What we should be finding is just how to kill it in general. I personally would look to your formations you can pose against it as a SM, such as someone mention earlier, the vindicator formation.

Spellbound wrote:It's not just eternal warrior, it's immune to psychic powers that don't have a strength value and force weapons

Read the thread, we've debated this point already. The Apoc Rulebook literally says, in its rules about instant death as applies to gargantuan creatures that force weapons can attempt to inflict instant death, and if they are succesful, they take d3 wounds instead of 1.

Yeah, I'm un-subscribing from this thread as it seems to be the same rules questions over and over again, rather than actually seeing what could take it down...

Epicwargamer wrote:

Does that thing come with a swimming pool on top?

Just Dave wrote:Yeah, I'm un-subscribing from this thread as it seems to be the same rules questions over and over again, rather than actually seeing what could take it down...

Yeah... game's tomorrow morning, I'll post here to let you guys know how it goes down (unless the guy with the Hierophant doesn't show up, in which case I'll be very sad... )

Just for statistical reference, I would also ask you post if the (or any) invuln save is allowed.

It is a constant reference for us in regard to debatable rules.

Most every I know that has "debatable rules" agrees that if a rule is listed for a model it should be included. This is one that is more contentious than most, however---being that it is Tyranid and useful--most say no.
(No one says that "Warp Field" does not exist. They just say that a Hierophant cannot use it despite it being listed because it changed catagories from 4e to 5e, from a psychic power to a power. The lesser arguemnt is that it specifices Zoanthrope, and not the units that can use it--even if the other unit[s!] has the ability listed.)

Take lots of Pics? I want to see this battle...

kirsanth wrote:Just for statistical reference, I would also ask you post if the (or any) invuln save is allowed.

It is a constant reference for us in regard to debatable rules.

Most every I know that has "debatable rules" agrees that if a rule is listed for a model it should be included. This is one that is more contentious than most, however---being that it is Tyranid and useful--most say no.
(No one says that "Warp Field" does not exist. They just say that a Hierophant cannot use it despite it being listed because it changed catagories from 4e to 5e, from a psychic power to a power. The lesser arguemnt is that it specifices Zoanthrope, and not the units that can use it--even if the other unit[s!] has the ability listed.)

It's like the argument that the Doom of Malanti can't use Zoanthrope powers because it's not a Zoanthrope. GW FAQed it, so I would assume the Hierophant follows the same logic.

FM Ninja 048 wrote:Take lots of Pics? I want to see this battle...

Will do! I got a new camera this week and I've been dying to try it out!