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LucasLAD wrote:

CajunMan550 wrote:Do a 30 mandrake list with the mandrake SC then w/e else you crack some skulls with that list and I will personally come down and shake ur hand.

You say that but a mandrake has a 5++ save and with the way he was making flicker field saves in our game I wouldn't put it past him to decimate.

Another jab at my arrogance, he said, "Seriously man, you NEED to shoot your vinicator HERE," and pointed to his baron/BM unit. I still opted to blast his piled up raiders, then scattered horribly. It was bad.

Bah, we had fun. You look like one of my buddies named Cody who was in the same company as me when I was a cadet at West Point, and I liked him a lot, which meant you were ok in my book - and you being cool besides all that didn't hurt.

Personally I just kinda ended up in your shoes, Found a sweet list that is very hard to deal with, in the past two months with this fantasy list it's 18-0-2. My local tourney this past weekend, I ran something very different and it's well was lack luster snaged me 5th out of 12 though.

However a big tourney next week is coming, so the nasty list will return the a few of our crew will be there, and I've already apologized in advance of bringing the big nasty out. But they understand

MY advice is try something completely different. for example I thought that taking a Bloodthirster in a 2k fantasy list would limit performance of the over all force. So I ran it for friendly games, and it wasn't so good.

Dashofpepper wrote:

LucasLAD wrote:

CajunMan550 wrote:Do a 30 mandrake list with the mandrake SC then w/e else you crack some skulls with that list and I will personally come down and shake ur hand.

You say that but a mandrake has a 5++ save and with the way he was making flicker field saves in our game I wouldn't put it past him to decimate.

Another jab at my arrogance, he said, "Seriously man, you NEED to shoot your vinicator HERE," and pointed to his baron/BM unit. I still opted to blast his piled up raiders, then scattered horribly. It was bad.

Bah, we had fun. You look like one of my buddies named Cody who was in the same company as me when I was a cadet at West Point, and I liked him a lot, which meant you were ok in my book - and you being cool besides all that didn't hurt.

Reciprocated

Dashofpepper wrote:
1. The first time I go to a store for a tournament, I'm going to bring my A-game and an A-list, and do my best.
2. In friendly games at the store, I'm not going to use a tournament list - I'll be changing things out and running suboptimal units.
3. At subsequent tournaments at a store, if I cleaned up the last time, I'm going to either bring different army, or a completely different list. For example, the next tournament I go to at Little Wars, if I have access to my stuff and can repair it all in time, I'll bring Orks instead of Dark Eldar - and depending on the state of my Necrons, I'd like to field them in tournaments too.

I dunno if that's always the best approach.

If you're going to a one-off tournament somewhere, sure, bring your A-game, smash heads, whatever.

But, if you're going to your first game/tournament at a place that you intend to frequent as a regular, you might want to use that first trip to scout out what's typical at that store and play accordingly, bring a list that might not be as tough, and play loose if the people there aren't highly competitive. That way, their first impression of you isn't negative. If you lose that first time, bring it up subsequently. First impressions are important, and if you want to become a regular at a place, the best way to do that is not to smash all the locals in the face the first time you show up.

It's much easier to maintain a rep of being a friendly guy who sometimes plays hard, than it is to lose a rep of being a WAAC jerk.

I've read through all the suggesions and there is a lot of stuff I can take for myself too. I should stop using my tourny SM list in friendly games too. I was doing it to practice at first, but then I liked the list so much I never wanted to change it. After 6 months of it being undefeated (including a tourny) I wasn't getting friendly games so easily. I'm wondering if my D.eldar will go that way too, so far they havn't lost at the store yet - and there is a RT next month. I might have to tone down the list for store play after that RT if things continue to go that way. I've had the army for less than a month, so I'm only going to get better with it.

I think Dash's plan is good, but Redbeard has a point. First impressions are important if you intend to make an establishment a fairly frequent visit.

One of these days I'm going to have to make my way to one of the events in the US so I can play against some of the great players that post here. I'd love to get a game in with some of you guys who post about seldom losing.

That is one of the great things about big tournaments. At my local store I generally lose maybe one game per league. At The Conflict this weekend I had a loss and two ties in my five games (though one of those Draws was mostly dice). Quality opposition is really fun to face.

At my FLGS I dont have competition unless a select few people show up (This holds true for me in just about every store in Jersey). Now obviously you having just moved there, and Louisiana being so large haven't figured this out yet. But, I bring 2 lists to every local RTT I go to and depending on if any of these other "skilled" players show up or not I'll bring my list based on that. If they do show up I'll play the best list I can, if they don't play something more easygoing.

There is no point beating people you know you can beat without trying, so why not make the most out of it. Note that these weaker lists don't have to be bad, just not the best. If you're as good as we both know you are you shouldn't have too much trouble winning regardless.

On a side note are you still planning on coming up for SVDM?

Hey Justin,

I know that Jacksonville didn't treat you that well and it seems that you still bear the scars of that encounter, but it sounds like you've found a great community to play in anyway.

We didn't get to play but the one time and while I was trounced (decidedly so...) I never once was intimidated or felt bad about that fact. When I was ahead, you graciously pointed that fact out to me and when the tide turned against me, all I heard was you begging for good rolls, never lording the results of those rolls over me. You gave great advice and were one of the most stellar players I've had the honor to encounter. All that said, I don't know what you're like at tourney - a completely different environment from one's living room.

If you're the same stellar player at a tourney then you don't have much to worry about, no matter the list you bring. However, the fact that you're concerned about consistently winning (and hedging other potential players away from the local arena) with the same list AND have taken it to an international forum for discussion shows that you have taken your potential actions into consideration. I have no doubt that you'll follow the advice provided by the individuals better qualified than myself and find that the community accepts you - top-tier list or no.

Oh, and just for the record, I was always interested in the 40k pointers-class-thing.

Gavin Thorne wrote:Hey Justin,

I know that Jacksonville didn't treat you that well and it seems that you still bear the scars of that encounter, but it sounds like you've found a great community to play in anyway.

We didn't get to play but the one time and while I was trounced (decidedly so...) I never once was intimidated or felt bad about that fact. When I was ahead, you graciously pointed that fact out to me and when the tide turned against me, all I heard was you begging for good rolls, never lording the results of those rolls over me. You gave great advice and were one of the most stellar players I've had the honor to encounter. All that said, I don't know what you're like at tourney - a completely different environment from one's living room.

If you're the same stellar player at a tourney then you don't have much to worry about, no matter the list you bring. However, the fact that you're concerned about consistently winning (and hedging other potential players away from the local arena) with the same list AND have taken it to an international forum for discussion shows that you have taken your potential actions into consideration. I have no doubt that you'll follow the advice provided by the individuals better qualified than myself and find that the community accepts you - top-tier list or no.

Oh, and just for the record, I was always interested in the 40k pointers-class-thing.

Gavin, it was great having you over to game too - although you caught us near the end of our duration there. I never had issues in Jacksonville at tournaments, it was always *after* the fact when the locals would start screaming that it wasn't fair that I was using my army in the tournaments, etc.

At large: Aside from a few weirdos with no common sense, I don't think I'll ever be accused of being a WAAC gamer. I'm easy-going, ready to laugh, have a self-depreciating sense of humour, congratulate my opponents on good rolls....the things that you generally associate with good sportsmanship. I don't run into issues with sportsmanship at tournaments; but I am *VERY* wary of scaring people away from playing me. This past weekend for example - my first round opponent (reserve, deep-striking tyranids *wince*) was going to drop out of the tournament because of how badly his list did against me - I did my best to convince him to stay in the tournament and he did; ending up 1-1-1.

The weekend before that at another store I was visiting for the first time, I faced off against the store champ, self-titled "Grand Daddy Ork" who told me that he had never lost a game - he conceded our game on turn3, and I was starting to feel ashamed. I like everyone I've met, am as friendly by nature, but don't want people not wanting to play against me because it would be unfun - like I envision being Necrons and facing off against triple vendetta / manticore / leman russ spam would be.

I disagree with Redbeard that going to my first tournament somewhere and losing is going to make a good first impression - I think that will make no impression. I think a good first impression is about how I interact with the people there my first time - only three of them are going to get to play me, and if there's 16-22 people there my list is going to be less relevant than my interaction with everyone.

I would be very disappointed if I entered a tournament at a new place, brought a suboptimal list, and ended up playing against an alpha player and getting stomped because I simply didn't bring the tools to get the job done. I'd feel less bad coming around to a tournament and getting beaten on because someone stepped up their game since the last time, and I had stepped down a bit to close the playing field.

Yermom: Not coming to the SVDM this year. Too far to travel, too soon after moving and starting a new job. Wife suggested I fly alone and go anyway, but I'm uncomfortable doing it this soon.

Dashofpepper wrote:
I disagree with Redbeard that going to my first tournament somewhere and losing is going to make a good first impression - I think that will make no impression. I think a good first impression is about how I interact with the people there my first time - only three of them are going to get to play me, and if there's 16-22 people there my list is going to be less relevant than my interaction with everyone.

I would be very disappointed if I entered a tournament at a new place, brought a suboptimal list, and ended up playing against an alpha player and getting stomped because I simply didn't bring the tools to get the job done. I'd feel less bad coming around to a tournament and getting beaten on because someone stepped up their game since the last time, and I had stepped down a bit to close the playing field.

Redbeard said you should play loose, which I took to mean that you should play in a highly relaxed manner...which is always good advice.

Well man if you ever want to unleash your hyper competitive in friendly games if you can ever make it up to northern minnesota there will be a game for you.

Our nice friendly games are some of the most competitive and hard lists i have ever played against.

Also Gavin, you're referring to one game against Dash- I think the thread is talking about what to do for repeated games against the same players.

I do think Redbeard makes a good point about first impressions, but even if you decide to go all-in at your first tourney there, the tips you've been picking up in this thread for subsequent games will really help.

yakface wrote:
Redbeard said you should play loose, which I took to mean that you should play in a highly relaxed manner...which is always good advice.

Bingo...

It's not playing to lose, consider it recon. If you're not making a trip to a store for a one-shot tournament, but, rather, you're considering the possibility of being a regular at the place, it is only respectful to take it easy that first trip and see how they do things - what sort of unwritten rules exist in the place and so on. You show up looking to beat everyone in the place the first time you go there and you're not going to earn any respect, they're going to dislike you because you're changing their status quo.

Different places have different ways of doing things. They'll have unwritten rules, all groups do. And the way to make friends and set yourself up for a long-term FLGS experience is not to stomp on whoever their alpha player is the first time you show up. Don't play to lose, but don't necessarily play to crush either. Play for the sake of playing the game, and meeting the locals. You might lose that game, but you're going to be welcomed far more if you seem like you're playing to have fun, rather than playing to show off your powergame.

@dash nothing would make me angrier then knowing someone wasnt bringing his best to a game both in terms of list and gameplay.

I love this game and I love winning but I will never get upset over a loss and I would never shy away from playing someone who was known to be a good player because even if I get kurb stomped I will learn something and It will make me a better player.

goood to see you found a FLGS to play in again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

puma713 wrote:Not sure it adds much to the thread, but I really enjoy Ailaros' games and his batreps. If you haven't followed the Blood Conquers series, you should give them a read.

Where are they found?

Ailaros has posted them in Battle Reports and on his website.

Mannahnin wrote:Ailaros has posted them in Battle Reports and on his website.

Link pretty please with sugar on top?

I'd probably be a little annoyed if someone I played against regularly always used the same list. Over time, people will feel that, since you don't change the list, then it's the list that's winning. Which means that if people don't own the 'optimal' models then they can't win.

I'd suggest theming your force to things that are less optimal - it will level the playing field a bit, and be more interesting for YOU, since you'll be atemping to win with a crazy list.

Jubear wrote:nothing would make me angrier then knowing someone wasnt bringing his best to a game both in terms of list and gameplay.

I didn't think people will be annoyed at an opponent for bringing something less than optimal - I play many armies that are themed - you're still building the best list you can, but you've just added extra restrictions to change things up a bit.

For example, my White Scars are the best White Scars army I can build, but obviously taking into account that there are no Terminators, Dreadnoughts, Thunderfire cannons and mostly everything else is on bikes. Would you rather never ever play a White Scar army, just the 'best' Marine list?

carmachu wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Ailaros has posted them in Battle Reports and on his website.

Link pretty please with sugar on top?

Here's the most recent installment. There's a link in the first sentence to the rest of the series.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/340454.page

Thanks!

IMO, keep playing like you do, but play nicely. The only way these players will get better is through adversity. Just make sure you show them proper tactics & organization in a polite manner. Nobody likes to be tfg

Redbeard wrote:
Bingo...

It's not playing to lose, consider it recon. If you're not making a trip to a store for a one-shot tournament, but, rather, you're considering the possibility of being a regular at the place, it is only respectful to take it easy that first trip and see how they do things - what sort of unwritten rules exist in the place and so on. You show up looking to beat everyone in the place the first time you go there and you're not going to earn any respect, they're going to dislike you because you're changing their status quo.

Different places have different ways of doing things. They'll have unwritten rules, all groups do. And the way to make friends and set yourself up for a long-term FLGS experience is not to stomp on whoever their alpha player is the first time you show up. Don't play to lose, but don't necessarily play to crush either. Play for the sake of playing the game, and meeting the locals. You might lose that game, but you're going to be welcomed far more if you seem like you're playing to have fun, rather than playing to show off your powergame.

I made the mistake of coming to play at a store with the intent of crushing. Makes the locals hate you like poison. Now with unfamiliar crowds, I will use an army not quite optimized but at the same time something to hold its own against someone good. Perception is everything and I am not perfect but I have learned from my mistakes when playing at unfamiliar venues.

Dash, you moved to my hometown, so grats (I think). I got into 40k after we moved to NY so I can't speak for the community, but it's good to hear you've got a positive thing going.

Now that I'm down south too (Tejas) I'd better see you at some events (when I can be bothered to unpack my minis and finish a new army).

Chumbalaya wrote:Dash, you moved to my hometown, so grats (I think). I got into 40k after we moved to NY so I can't speak for the community, but it's good to hear you've got a positive thing going.

Now that I'm down south too (Tejas) I'd better see you at some events (when I can be bothered to unpack my minis and finish a new army).

Where at? I'm going to the Dragon's Lair in Bossier City (Shreveport) this weekend for an RTT for the first time. Its like two hours from Dallas or something, you going to come? Its 2.5 hours for me. I'll get to meet Dakka's Zachwho there.

I'm also headed to BOLScon this year now that it is in reasonable driving distance.

In other news....I went back to the store where I played in my first RTT at on Saturday to try getting in some friendly gaming to prep for the RTT at the Dragon's Lair - a number of folks came up to me wanting to know if I was the guy who got a flawless sweet at the last RTT and wanting to take a shot at me. No hostility, much friendliness, it was great! =D

DFW area, Frisco to be precise.

Shreveport's closer to 4 hours away, but it wouldn't matter since my stuff is still mostly in boxes strewn about the house. Anything in a month or so on and I'd be game. I can even stay at my grandparents' the night before so I won't have to drive at 5am

Warning: This is not a flame in any sense of the word as I never had a problem with Justin in North Carolina but lessons I've seen over and over again from players including Dash.

Yes, people do get frustrated at a list they cannot beat and utterly decimates them. Toning down a list for friendly games or friendly leagues isn't the worst thing in the world if it's still strong enough to win, but not so utterly demoralizing that it discourages players from wanting to sit back down at a table. If the point is for people to learn or have fun in friendly games, crushing them within the first two rounds doesn't tend to teach them anything and, let's face it, too many wargame players aren't humble enough at that point to sit down and talk shop after the game. The suggestions of changing your list from time to time are excellent as well. Nothing seems to wear players out like losing badly to the same list week in and week out. And no, it's not your fault you ran the same list over and over again and they never figured out a counter to it. That type of play does sit squarely on their shoulders but this is about what you can do to have a more positive experience. A lot of the drama in Raleigh wasn't based on your army but that their anger at other issues was directed at it. So here are a list of changes that you were guilty of as a general heads up.

One, do not insult your opponents army before you play it. You did that to me at the 'Ard Boyz we met at and while I addressed it immediately, not everyone is going to take it well and let it slide off their "backs". By the way, I am glad we played because it allowed me to tweak my list so much that at Round 2, I smashed (and yes, you were robbed in game one of Round 2 that year). And we still had fun that day together and got along the rest of the time I knew you.

Two, having fun is just as important as being a Rules Lawyer. No one likes someone looking for technicalities at every turn. You know the rules. You know the rules well. But trying to make hyper technical distinctions that work for your sole advantage in one turn, then your opponents sole disadvantage in the following, is not something worth having a shouting match during a tournament over. This is especially true if he has clearly already lost the game . . . just let it slide or suggest a dice-off. If your opponent wants to yell . . . let them. It just means you are winning but keep your cool as when you are the new guy, he/she has friends in the store. Yelling back and throwing insults at each other does nothing to endear either of you to the rest of the store's patrons.

Three, don't get involved in flaming wars on the forums or in the store. Let people say what they will and then respond without using insults. Yes, some of the stuff said to you was, simply put, wrong (and don't get me started on Jack and Rob's comments). But the stuff said back was equally wrong at times. Also, don't flame the store itself for breaking their rules and being asked to leave. That's a no brainer.

Four, don't be vindictive. Showing up to a second 'Ard Boyz (one was held on a Saturday and then one on a Sunday that weekend for some reason) with the sole intention to deny someone in the store an opportunity to attend the second round is petty and burned a lot of bridges from people that were on the fence about the situation. I understood it (I would not have done that myself) but a lot of people didn't.


The point of this isn't to embarrass you, or flame you or insult you. I know you and got along with you. If someone addressed something you did wrong with respect, everything was cool. You are a fantastic army builder and tactician on the battlefield. Heck, Dash builds one of the hardest, meanest Ork lists out there guys so learn to fear them . . . even if they are pink with sparkles . The point I am trying to stress is that this is a game and ultimately games are designed for us to both have fun, even if the game is competitive in it's very nature. If you can't have fun with someone or they can't have fun with you, then walk away from that solo game, the store or possibly the game system itself (even though I think GW should make indestructible pre-painted mini's for the wee ones so we can all indoctrinate our children into the hobby and no one should ever, EVER quit the game). Be calm and don't lose your temper. Be gracious in both victory and defeat. Be patient with those less talented or less knowledgeable than yourself. If you can master those, I've found that it doesn't matter if you win every game. People will still want to play you if they enjoy the rest of the game and their time both at the table and away from the table as it relates to 40k (forums, shop talk in the store, etc . .). Basically you are a good guy, but I think you need to see how the way you play the game, is just as important as any army list in why you've had trouble in two separate regions.