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Alastergrimm wrote:I was wondering what the worst thing a person has done to you in a tournament. I will go first

I had a player come out of the bathroom at a tournament and pick up one of my best painted models and said as he brought it up to look at the model and said, "Ah, man...this hand still smells like crap." I then when remove that model from the table and wrap it up with a tissue and replace it with a Count's as, before going to my next match.

I believe you got trolled. (in a friendly game I could see saying that as a bad joke, but I would never do it)

It wasn't a tourney but we were playing a game and my necron destro lord had killed his land raider ( or as he said a guy with a pointy stick *cough warsythe) and he then proceded to knock over the majority of the models on the field and said "and chuck norris came the end". He acctualy could have won but he licked his landraider too much. lol

The problem was....it smell like crap from a distance afterwords.... I had to strip down the model and repaint it to get rid of the smell.

Also in regards to the Tyrannofex, It sucks, but it is legal to have a model be any shape as long as it has the right gear as long as there is no offical model for it.

Polonius wrote:Stupid question: couldn't vehicles tank shock through infantry in that sort of scenario?

I'm pretty sure they could, actually.

Rulebook FAQ wrote:Q: Can a vehicle that is moving on from reserves perform
a tank shock? (p68)
A: Yes it can, declare the distance it is going to move
along with its direction and move the tank onto the board
that many inches, measuring from the board edge as for a
normal from reserve. The tank shock is performed as
usual. However, if the tank is forced to stop for any reason
before the entire vehicle is on the board then the vehicle,
and any embarked units, count as destroyed and are
removed from play.

Monster Rain wrote:

Polonius wrote:Stupid question: couldn't vehicles tank shock through infantry in that sort of scenario?

I'm pretty sure they could, actually.

Rulebook FAQ wrote:Q: Can a vehicle that is moving on from reserves perform
a tank shock? (p68)
A: Yes it can, declare the distance it is going to move
along with its direction and move the tank onto the board
that many inches, measuring from the board edge as for a
normal from reserve. The tank shock is performed as
usual. However, if the tank is forced to stop for any reason
before the entire vehicle is on the board then the vehicle,
and any embarked units, count as destroyed and are
removed from play.

If you can tank shock completely onto the board before making contact with the enemy unit / vehicle, then you may indeed tank shock off the table.

However, when you perform a ramming attack, you stop 1" away from the enemy vehicle to resolve it. In effect, you're stopping 1" from the board edge, off the board - at which point the part about "being forced to stop for ANY REASON" before the ENTIRE VEHICLE is on the board comes into play.

So if you're in a 6" rhino, and an enemy vehicle or unit is 7" away from the board edge, you can tank shock into it, because you'll be completely on the table before having to stop for any reason.

Dashofpepper wrote:However, when you perform a ramming attack, you stop 1" away from the enemy vehicle to resolve it.

The picture in the diagram has the Rhino touching the Trukk when demonstrating a ram, so I'm not sure that this is correct.

Dashofpepper wrote:In effect, you're stopping 1" from the board edge, off the board - at which point the part about "being forced to stop for ANY REASON" before the ENTIRE VEHICLE is on the board comes into play.

Yes, you could be stopped for a lot of reasons when ramming. The most common I would think would be not exploding the rammed vehicle with the ram. The fact remains that if someone tries to block your deployment zone with infantry you can drive through them with your vehicles.

Also, if someone has their raiders 7 inches off the table edge you can just drive in sideways.

MVBrandt wrote:If I remember Yermom's story correctly, he lined the board edges of Yermom's side with Kommandos ... in a Dawn of War mission.

Although you can infiltrate in Dawn of War, you cannot infiltrate units that aren't from the two troop and 1 hq restrictions, so ... if that's the proper remembrance ... and he infiltrated 3 kommando units to line Yermom's board edge, while lining his own with shoota boyz ... then yes, he was totally illegal in what he did / cheated.


From the DOW Mission - "Troops and HQ units that can infiltrate, can do so, as long as at the end of deployment the player still has a maximum of one HQ and two Troops units on the table."

He only ever takes the one unit of Kommandos that I have seen, and never shoota boyz so this might not be the same instance. Although I do not see how this same thing happened at two different Ard Boyz finals. I will call him later today to check and see if this is the same game. Did the finals game happen at Mikhails store?

Kaotik,

I don't know all the details. What I do know is that somehow his opponent was able to line Yermom's deployment zone with models, causing an insta-loss.

This isn't legal in any way at all ... you'd require enough infiltrating troops in just 2 units to completely line the long board edge, and that doesn't exist ... certainly not in an Ork army.

I get where you're going with the comedy part when you first brought it up, too - when I FIRST heard about it in passing, I thought "wow that really sucks but ... tee hee." Then, I thought about it and was like "Wait, wait, wait, how was that legal?" The response was "3 x 15 Kommandoz" ... and then I pondered it a sec after initially going "ohhhhhh" ... and then realized, THAT'S still illegal.

Not to say your buddy cheated him, of course ... he simply may not know the game rules all that well, or didn't at the time, and misread the allowance of infiltration to include any units that can infiltrate.

I think mine was at the NOVA this past year, which had the best games I've ever played, and also one which was the worst. Note: I believe this was the only occurrence at the NOVA of issues, so it no way reflects the overall feeling of the event.

I set up to play against a Tyranid player round 2, who began semi normal, if a bit overally cocky/sarcastic, even for my taste. As the game went on and he was beginning to lose, he began to argue every rule and LOS check that we came to. When my dice rolled well, he'd throw a fit and cuss and stomp around. When asked a question I'd just get a snide remark.

Conversations like: Alright, my russ is firing at the hive guard
"you don't have LOS"
(i check it, I can see two of the models) I can see two models, come over and look from my side
"FINE WHATEVER I DONT CARE, IM NOT CHECKING, JUST TAKE IT"

As the game wore on the statements got nastier and nastier with inclusions of "whatever I dont give a shXX, you've done this all game".

It got bad enough that a friend that had attended with me who stopped by went and got a judge to come watch the game after seeing how frustrated I was getting. I tried to let it roll off and just responded to the previous statements with "okay. lets move on." but it nearly came to a head at the end..my Vendetta moved to tank shock a gaunt unit. At this point, the guy began flipping out and yelling about how I couldn't. I asked him to calm down and just let me look it up. At this point the judge stepped in, and decided to handle it and look it up for us, immediately the guy got even more frustrated and snapped at the judge, at which point the Judge informed him "You need to calm down and let me look this up".

It was deemed I couldn't do it (my mistake, the vendetta isn't a tank) so I just moved close (12 inches) and disembarked. I was close enough to contest the objective, and win the game.

Upon tallying objectives the guy flipped and claimed I'd cheated and moved the unit closer, and that there was no way I could of contested. I informed him I hadnt, and that if I wanted to I still had the run move I didnt even use. He then went on a tirade about how I was no fun to play, Id been pulling crap all game, etc etc. During his final tirade, I started to say "You know what, you've...(and then caught myself) and said "nevermind..it's not worth it, lets just tally this up and be done with it." He refused to score the game and just kept saying "whatever, take max points, I dont give an f'ing shXX".

The judge stepped in, the guy ragequit the event, and that was that. I requested not to get max points, because I didn't deserve them (it had been a close game), and tallied up my real score with the judge.

However, I missed ren. man (got 4th) by .07 points, and I hate to think it, but my sportsmanship score (max for my other games I believe, my opponents told me they had a good time and showed me what they filled out) could have bumped me all the way to 1st. Apparently this guy, from what the people in the area after the guy left told me, has a reputation of acting like this if he isn't winning.

C'est la vie, TFG's are everywhere, and I still had a good time despite it. But I've never been more flabberghasted.

@MVB

There is always the possibility of mistakes being made by TO's/Players, but Alex (kartofelkopf on here) is spot on with the rules the vast majority of the time. I cannot see him trying to deploy over what was allowed in DoW, but stranger things have happened. I remember it being described to us after he got back, but like you, I do not remember many details. However I do not remember any of our group calling him on it being illegal at the time, and most of us are pretty good on the rules ourselves. You are 100% correct though that if it went down as you stated it was not legal.

Since the guy in question is a friend of mine, and the main person from our group that travels around to tourneys with me, I will ask him about it when we talk next. Not out of any need to prove either party wrong, it's just got my curiousity piqued. Actually surprised he has not read this thread and commented himself as he checks dakka pretty regular.

At astro last year, despite it being a great event, I had a bad experience with a guy I know outside the game. We don't generally get along for various reasons, although because we are sometimes in the same social group we are at least civil. So playing a game together in a tourny shouldn't have been bad.

Last round of astro, I'm 4-1 after losing my first game to the guy who often wins, who is 4-0-1 (he had given up a draw) going into the last round. I know that I still have a chance to win this thing, if the last game doesn't go well for the guy who beat me in round 5.

I'm up against a pretty bad ork list, so I'm happy about my chance. Straight up Victory point game starts off, I get first turn, even better. I shoot down a bunch of stuff, move my LR up a bit figuring he has nothing that can really threaten it first turn. On his turn, he shoots his tankbustas at it, claiming they have tankhunters. I knew something was wrong about this, and asked him if he was sure they had it. He looked annoyed at me and said they did. I didn't want to cause a problem and figured I was wrong about it. Huge mistake.

He unloads 10 shots, and gets like 8 hits. Then he proceeds to get 4 sixes and 2 fives on the penetration roll. Since he was playing his tankbusatas as tank hunters, he is shooting S9 at me and gets 4 pens and 2 glances. LR blows up. Now my terminators have to walk across the battlefield. Over the course of the game the tankbustas destroy a vehicle a turn, and he gets very lucky on KFF saves.

The end result is that I had to play extremely offensively since he had such a huge VP lead by destroying the LR. Thing is, the Tankbustas are not tank hunters, so the LR should have been immobilized and thats it. The rest of the turns of shooting wouldn't have been as bad either, since S8 doesn't have the same penetrating power as S9.

My fault for not making an issue out of his "incorrect" usage of the tankbustas, but I felt really cheated. I could have afforded a shooting attrition war if he wasn't playing the tankbustas like that. I had a good chance for best general that this guy basically cheated me out of.

Needless to say we don't get along at all now, since I called him on it after the event when I was going over the games with an ork player friend.

yermom wrote:I was cheated at an ard boy'z tournament a year ago. The guy effectively auto tabled me, it was illegal but the judges ruled in his favor.

Okay.
*This* is something I'll beg to see the details of. : )

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:

yermom wrote:I was cheated at an ard boy'z tournament a year ago. The guy effectively auto tabled me, it was illegal but the judges ruled in his favor.

Okay.
*This* is something I'll beg to see the details of. : )

Eric

Check MVB's posts above. To paraphrase, this was (POTENTIALLY, (as his report is 2nd or 3rd hand) a misunderstanding) involving how Dawn of War and Infiltrators work to block off a table edge and prevent someone from coming on the board.

pretre wrote:I would hope a TO would take a little more time to think about a question that had a chance to end a game before it started. Pretty lame.

At my next 'AB, I'm just going to ask a ridiculously favorable rules question of the TO for each game. Can't hurt, right?

That's an effective strategy for a lot of games. Off topic, but if it's half-way believable, you should start off every Scrabble game that you go first by dropping a fake 7 letter word. If they challenge and you lose, you go second instead of first (which is often more advantageous). If they challenge and lose or don't challenge, you get 50 bonus bonus points and a double word score

MVBrandt wrote:Yermom is a really cool guy, and the TO was called over and said the guy could do it (incorrectly reading the rule and not really getting the question from what I understand).

Yermom was also playing a Tyranid army, all foot, so could not tank shock a damned thing ... or fly over.

He'd also declared everything was coming on Turn 1.

He just autolost as soon as the game started.


Caveat - I wasn't there; maybe some weird rule allowed the guy to put 2 troops units on Yermom's board side, but, I doubt it.

Hey, that Ork player was me.

He won the roll for first turn, and deferred to me.

I set up my boyz (60 of them) along one half of board edge, with rest ready to move up.

Snikrot and kommandos started in reserve (as they have to-- DOW or no).

Snikrot came in second turn, and I was able to line the far edge of table, and boys on my side had moved and run twice to get to meet the kommandos up his edge.

He had less than 3" to come in on the left side, and was only able to put a partial genestealer unit, and only one of his units came in on other side.

The reason we had to call the TO over was because the table had slightly rounded corners and he was arguing that he should be able to come in on those corners because I hadn't lined them as if they extended out another 1".
---------------

After he conceded, I offered to redeploy and play a real game, but he (rudely) declined, and I was stuck in Philadelphia for 2 hours with nothing to do.

While I know that can be a rough go, no reason to go online and disparage others. And MVBrandt-- very disappointed in you for passing along faulty accounts secondhand. Not the sort of e-drama I'd expect from you.

Why did Snikrot come on before the 'nids got to walk on on turn one in the Dawn of War deployment?

Did he keep everything in actual "reserves?"

kartofelkopf wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:Yermom is a really cool guy, and the TO was called over and said the guy could do it (incorrectly reading the rule and not really getting the question from what I understand).

Yermom was also playing a Tyranid army, all foot, so could not tank shock a damned thing ... or fly over.

He'd also declared everything was coming on Turn 1.

He just autolost as soon as the game started.


Caveat - I wasn't there; maybe some weird rule allowed the guy to put 2 troops units on Yermom's board side, but, I doubt it.

Hey, that Ork player was me.

He won the roll for first turn, and deferred to me.

I set up my boyz (60 of them) along one half of board edge, with rest ready to move up.

Snikrot and kommandos started in reserve (as they have to-- DOW or no).

Snikrot came in second turn, and I was able to line the far edge of table, and boys on my side had moved and run twice to get to meet the kommandos up his edge.

He had less than 3" to come in on the left side, and was only able to put a partial genestealer unit, and only one of his units came in on other side.

The reason we had to call the TO over was because the table had slightly rounded corners and he was arguing that he should be able to come in on those corners because I hadn't lined them as if they extended out another 1".
---------------

After he conceded, I offered to redeploy and play a real game, but he (rudely) declined, and I was stuck in Philadelphia for 2 hours with nothing to do.

While I know that can be a rough go, no reason to go online and disparage others. And MVBrandt-- very disappointed in you for passing along faulty accounts secondhand. Not the sort of e-drama I'd expect from you.

No need to make more if it than it is, I think everyone was being pretty respectful and thinking it was a misplay of the rules, not a slight against you at all.

That being said, just a mechanics question (no implications!!!). Your boys units would move 6 inches, run, move 6 inches, run by the time he potentially came in (if he used reserves, instead of just walking on on turn 1). In order to block him, you'd ahve to have 11/12 inches possible with all of the boys, and this is if there wasnt any terrain to cause terrain checks. Any less than that and you'd be 2 inches from his edge, making him able to come in in his 1 inch section. Was this the case? If so it seems you two were just in an unlikely quandry here.

pretre wrote:Check MVB's posts above. To paraphrase, this was (POTENTIALLY, (as his report is 2nd or 3rd hand) a misunderstanding) involving how Dawn of War and Infiltrators work to block off a table edge and prevent someone from coming on the board.

All I see is a bunch of people saying what it could've been.
I'd like to see his description of events.
Also, that was back on page 1 when I responded. I hadn't read through to page 5.


That said...

Worst thing that ever happened to me was playing my CSM against DE in a tourney a couple years ago.
With one exception, which I did and still do write off as a rules interpretation issue, there were no problems with cheating or anything.
In the end, I eeked out a tie, which was all about how well I played and not about the lists. He had a very tough list.

The problem was the guy. He was your typical TFG the whole game. It's obvious he wanted to win and, when he wasn't, he turned into a d*ck.
Despite the tie and the 0 he gave me on sportsmanship (I'd decided to stop taking his attitude and called him on it, even giving it right back to him when it still didn't stop), when all my other games had maxed sportsmanship, I won the tourney.

I couldn't make the next tourney at the store, but two of my buddies did. He ended up playing both of them and, when he found out we played in the same group, he tried to dog my reputation the whole game (both games). Said I tried to cheat on my moves, lied about die rolls, etc.

Fortunately, I've never seen him at the shop again.

Eric

Monster Rain wrote:Why did Snikrot come on before the 'nids got to walk on on turn one in the Dawn of War deployment?

Did he keep everything in actual "reserves?"

Yeah, this.

The explanation seems less likely than the second hand account. I seems crazy that Yermom would put everything in real reserves on DoW. Especially after he sees you line up at the 24" line. Add to that the math below for run rolls (5 and 6) and no difficult terrain between you and the board edge and that's just a crazy set of circumstances coming together.

Fantasy references below, but still bad!

I was playing in a tournament and my shades did 3 wounds to a nurgling base. He said they had 4 wounds and thus 1 left.

I asked him if he wouldn't mind looking it up, because I was pretty sure they have 3.

He looked it up, stared directly at the profile without showing me and confirmed they had 4. (For those of you wondering, they actually have 3)...

It wasn't a huge deal in the game, but I was pretty surprised that he blatantly cheated me right to my face.

Later that game he also tried to tell me that mindrazor doesn't affect armor saves (which it does).

The funny part of this whole thing is I gave him max sports, because I don't ding people, but he gave me a zero, despite HIM cheating.



I play a lot of tournaments and, in general, I'd say the best approach to people doing shady gak is to not let them get away with it. If you are on the ball, call them on their over-measuring, get judges if they are slow playing and are very proactive, it generally helps mitigate the total level of cheating. At the end of the day, an angry nerd will be an angry nerd.

kartofelkopf wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:Yermom is a really cool guy, and the TO was called over and said the guy could do it (incorrectly reading the rule and not really getting the question from what I understand).

Yermom was also playing a Tyranid army, all foot, so could not tank shock a damned thing ... or fly over.

He'd also declared everything was coming on Turn 1.

He just autolost as soon as the game started.


Caveat - I wasn't there; maybe some weird rule allowed the guy to put 2 troops units on Yermom's board side, but, I doubt it.

Hey, that Ork player was me.

He won the roll for first turn, and deferred to me.

I set up my boyz (60 of them) along one half of board edge, with rest ready to move up.

Snikrot and kommandos started in reserve (as they have to-- DOW or no).

Snikrot came in second turn, and I was able to line the far edge of table, and boys on my side had moved and run twice to get to meet the kommandos up his edge.

He had less than 3" to come in on the left side, and was only able to put a partial genestealer unit, and only one of his units came in on other side.

The reason we had to call the TO over was because the table had slightly rounded corners and he was arguing that he should be able to come in on those corners because I hadn't lined them as if they extended out another 1".
---------------

After he conceded, I offered to redeploy and play a real game, but he (rudely) declined, and I was stuck in Philadelphia for 2 hours with nothing to do.

While I know that can be a rough go, no reason to go online and disparage others. And MVBrandt-- very disappointed in you for passing along faulty accounts secondhand. Not the sort of e-drama I'd expect from you.

Hey, I didn't think I was starting e-drama ... totally my bad. Like I said, it could have easily been a misunderstanding; also, like I repeatedly said, I wasn't there, just what I'd heard. I'm glad you've come on to clear it up! It seems weird that he would reserve his whole Tyranid army in Dawn of War ... if that's what happened, you got him good 'n proppa!

The net's toneless; I didn't know who was involved, and tried to make a point of that ... sucks that it was misinterpreted - apologies.

No need to make more if it than it is, I think everyone was being pretty respectful and thinking it was a misplay of the rules, not a slight against you at all.

That being said, just a mechanics question (no implications!!!). Your boys units would move 6 inches, run, move 6 inches, run by the time he potentially came in (if he used reserves, instead of just walking on on turn 1). In order to block him, you'd ahve to have 11/12 inches possible with all of the boys, and this is if there wasnt any terrain to cause terrain checks. Any less than that and you'd be 2 inches from his edge, making him able to come in in his 1 inch section. Was this the case? If so it seems you two were just in an unlikely quandry here.

The whole schtick of his list was the outflank-- I believe it was 6x genestealers coming in, and 3 of them came on blocked side. Orks start at 24", get 2 turns of movement/run, and then kommandos come in also.

It wasn't that it was an auto-lose, it was that he ragequit over losing those units.

His account regarding "3x kommandos" -absolutely inaccurate. I was running 2x lootas, and I don't even have sufficient kommandos to run 3 units of 'em.
-------

I think saying you were cheated in a tourney is a bit more than calling it a "misplay."

kartofelkopf wrote:
The whole schtick of his list was the outflank-- I believe it was 6x genestealers coming in, and 3 of them came on blocked side. Orks start at 24", get 2 turns of movement/run, and then kommandos come in also.

Now that makes a lot more sense. Outflank blocking is significantly easier to pull off. I can see you doing that. Consider my curiosity appeased.

Speaking of Genestealers:

I was running a Necron force, heavy on the infantry, deployed waaay back near my edge.

My opponent took 6 units of stealers as his troops (120 of them) and infiltrated them all 18 inches from my gunline (pretty clear terrain- planet billiard ball ) then proceeded to roll 6's for all there run moves, one after another. 6 6's in a row !

Needless to say i lost the game on turn 1 (crons suck in assault and phased out) but he was utterly shocked, as was I. No loaded dice involved. I play the guy often, and his luck is generally average at best.

We ended up spending more time on setup than the game, then put our armies in the trays and wathced the other games for the hour and 45 left on the 2 hour match.

To be fair i would probably have got reamed on turn 2 if he hadn't made all his 6's, but i would at least have got to gun some of them down first

Ya it is also a known TACTIC, and something outflank armies have to watch out for. A pretty far stretch from "Got cheated in the Ard'Boyz finals" if you ask me. I play Kart quite often, losing more than winning and trust me he knows the rules. He is the one guy in the store I will ask for rules questions and not double check even if it sounds off from what I remember. Is why I found it VERY unlikely he would make a mistake like over deploying units in DoW.

@Kart- I immediately remembered the outflank part once you said the thing about the 1" at the corners. One word, HUGE difference. Me personally, I would have taken a crap in your car at some point if you did that to me at a tourney. But that is a friend thing.

@MVP- you pretty much maintained a neutral stance throughout. Probably a little misplaced anger there about someone claiming he cheated them out of the last round of a major tourney.

Ascalam wrote:Speaking of Genestealers:

I was running a Necron force, heavy on the infantry, deployed waaay back near my edge.

My opponent took 6 units of stealers as his troops (120 of them) and infiltrated them all 18 inches from my gunline (pretty clear terrain- planet billiard ball ) then proceeded to roll 6's for all there run moves, one after another. 6 6's in a row !

Needless to say i lost the game on turn 1 (crons suck in assault and phased out) but he was utterly shocked, as was I. No loaded dice involved. I play the guy often, and his luck is generally average at best.

We ended up spending more time on setup than the game, then put our armies in the trays and wathced the other games for the hour and 45 left on the 2 hour match.

To be fair i would probably have got reamed on turn 2 if he hadn't made all his 6's, but i would at least have got to gun some of them down first

Doesn't work, Infiltrate says you must be deployed MORE than 18" away.

pg 75 of the BRB says they can be deployed 12" away from an enemy unit as long as they are out of LOS, but can be deployed 18" away even if they are in full LOS.

Ascalam is completely correct. He can easily deployed 18.0000001 inches away from the nearest enemy model.

Ascalam is incorrect. The Infiltrate rules clearly state MORE than 12" and MORE than 18". If you hide your unit out of LOS you can certainly get a turn 1 charge with Fleet, but if they're in LOS Stealers can't do it.

More than 18" away doesn't mean he has to be 19" away. If we were to draw a line on a board that represents me being 18" away, and I stand right behind that line, I am still 'more than' 18" away. I'm just 18.01 inches away, and in a standard game of 40k, that .01 inch is easily part of the margine of error.

ChrisWWII wrote:More than 18" away doesn't mean he has to be 19" away. If we were to draw a line on a board that represents me being 18" away, and I stand right behind that line, I am still 'more than' 18" away. I'm just 18.01 inches away, and in a standard game of 40k, that .01 inch is easily part of the margine of error.

Except in a first turn situation, I, as your opponent, know there is no way you can charge me.

6"move + 6"fleet + 6"charge = 18 not 18.00001

Big difference.

Over the course of a game, .0001 isn't as big a deal and probably is lost, but first turn is super important. Just like your bolters will not be shooting at me in pitched battle turn one, don't even bother measuring.