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DorianGray wrote:Wow,

At the end of the day it doesn't change the fact that Space Marines and Spiky Space Marines are:

-Forgiving
-Easy to Paint
-Cheap
-Overpowered (Blood Angels & Space Wolves)
-Overplayed

But like I said there is always that one kid who started with Tau, paints extremely well and still owned playing a underpowered codex. This kid is awesome.

All the kids who chose to play Space Marines are not as virtuous as the kid above.

If "spikey" Space Marines are so forgiving, why are there Spawn?

WHERE IS YOUR GOD EMPEROR NOW?

First of all no one uses spawn or lesser Daemons.

2nd of all, I love it how space marine fanboys label me a troll when I post the obvious.

This is my opinion, if you don't like it that doesn't make me a troll.

Dorian Gray wrote:First of all no one uses spawn or lesser Daemons.

2nd of all, I love it how space marine fanboys label me a troll when I post the obvious.

This is my opinion, if you don't like it that doesn't make me a troll. Later a@@hole.

Incorrect again...I use over 30 Plaguebearers in my Death Guard,which is built around fluff...not WAAC (which incidentally one can do with ANY army).
Posting your opinion doesn't make you a troll...making broad inflammatory statements does.

Also, since when do Warriors of Chaos have Lesser daemons

DorianGray wrote:First of all no one uses spawn or lesser Daemons...

Except the guy that won the Philadelphia 'Ard Boyz Finals.

Skinnattittar wrote:

However, I do agree, I would like to see alternate starter sets than just Space Marines v. "Somebody." Space Marines were not my first army, nor a lot of other people's.

Space marines were my first army, and I think Skinnattittar (there must be a story behind that name..) is absolutely right. As far as the rest of the SM hate goes:

Yes, there is oversaturation of space marine armies, both in fluff and game terms.

That is just as annoying to me as a space marine player as it, obviously, is to you as a... something player.

Oversaturation does not mean that every single gamer who plays space marines is a power-gamer who's only joy comes from the screams of little children as he smashes their armies to bits.

Space Marines are WAYYY EASIER to paint then Eldar or horde armies. Most kids do not have the patience to buy & paint a lot of models (like hordes) and they prefer the most shinyest oohhh ahhh thing out there rather than "gay space elves" (I've been told me by a 11 year old kid) or regular guys (IG) who wants to be regular guys in a sci-fi game?

It's all a sign of immaturity. Kid + space marines = GW target market. I consider Chaos Space Marines to be the same sign of immaturity. Spiky SM FTW

Real men play Xenos. (or some non-SM faction)

IS ANYONE gonna deny that Dark Eldar or Tau simply takes way more skill than 3+ saves all around Space Marines? Kids can't handle it they want the Terminators man. Kids don't like playing with fragile glass-cannon armies that require skill and is unforgiving.

I just started playing 40k this year, and I do play Space Marines. I know it's childish to even respond to this, but I'm going to anyway. I'm not accusing, or inciting anything, these are simply my reasons.

1. I picked to play Space Marines because they were recommended to me by experienced players. They told me they had a wide range of tactics available, and were the best all-around army. I don't feel stupid or immature for taking their advice. Why would I choose something more difficult when my understanding of the game was already weak at best? Just to be different? I'd be pissed as hell if I spent $200.00 on an army I decided I hated playing as. With the Space Marines, there is flexibilty. (I'm not saying other factions lack this, but the Space Marines are among the most versatile.)

2. When it comes to scifi or fantasy movies, games and video games: I'm racist. I will pick the human race EVERY time, over ANY other alien race. In this case, I choose Space Marines over Imperial Guard because I think they look better. (That is not to say that I think the other factions don't look good.)

3. I think the Space Marine fluff is kind of engaging. I like all the different armies backstories, but the idea of representing a selfless holy warrior who will live and die in service to his kind is just more appealing to me than playing as a souless Necron. (But they ARE cool, I'd just rather be a hero than a villain.)

4. While I agree that Space Marines are the prime marketing material for the game, and that is is not uncommon for new players to choose them, I disagree when it comes to skill. I got my ass handed to me by Dark Eldar, even with my 3+ saves and my 2+ saves. Obviously, the army takes some measure of skill to play effectively.

5. More importantly, I see the Space Marines as a branching off point for other players. A new player can see the different army's play styles, and can modify his own Space Marine force to reflect something they thought was cool or effective. They also may change their faction entirely - which is good. Not only are they trying something new, they can always fall back on an army they are more comfortable with. And as far as I know (which is minimal) most people like the Space Marines in general, so moving on to a new race won't be so much as, "Ah man I just wasted so much money on Space Marines," but more like, "Now I have two cool forces to fight with."

That's really all I have to say. I'm sorry you hate us so.

I started guard as they were the closest thing to WW2 G.Is then I played orks (because they're green ) I admit I played marines when Black Reach came out, but I sold them to fund my Eldar army. On a different note, I wanna feed the troll as long as he doesnt bite my fingers.

Agree with TinyWhale. Fail troll is......actually, he HAS kept us going on for about 3 pages now, so....succesful troll is succesfull?

I don't haet SMs but I think there are too many SMs in the game.

There's too much emphasis on them in codex releases, models, and the number of players.

It's a consequence of there being so many newcomers. They usually go for SMs.

I don't think there is anything to be done about it.

I like SM as the main core army. It makes my army seem more unique and therfore harder for my oppenets to combat against.

I agree though SM have GW's poster boy for a while now especiallay lately with Blood Angels

DorianGrey, get back under your bridge.

DorianGray wrote:Sure some die-hard veterans play Space Marines (namely Space Wolves or Blood Angels) because they are WAAC gamers.

Do you ever think that maybe... JUST MAYBE some of these players play these armies because they like the fluff/style?

I just wish that factions like the Inquisition got more. They are so unique; yet look how long its taken them to get a codex update.

Mr Hyena wrote:I just wish that factions like the Inquisition got more. They are so unique; yet look how long its taken them to get a codex update.

What could they possibly give the Inquisition?

It's not a common faction. The Inquisition operates in such a way that it makes the Adeptus Astartes look common. Add to it that they're an investigative branch, not a predominantly combat branch and it makes for weirdness on the tabletop.

They're better as a storytelling element, not a gameplay element.

DorianGray wrote:Wow,

At the end of the day it doesn't change the fact that Space Marines and Spiky Space Marines are:

-Forgiving
-Easy to Paint
-Cheap
-Overpowered (Blood Angels & Space Wolves)
-Overplayed

But like I said there is always that one kid who started with Tau, paints extremely well and still owned playing a underpowered codex. This kid is awesome.

All the kids who chose to play Space Marines are not as virtuous as the kid above.

To be honest, I don't understand why people say they are easy to paint
You have to make the paint as smooth as possible for armour so it looks nice and for beginners thats not gonna work out, it will always be filled with brushmarks
I find ork skin or things with groves to be much easier, because you can do washes over them and make them look much better, even if you did a sketchy paint job

As for Space Marines?
I like them, I like how they're represented and I like what they do
I like the representation of something that fights until its dying breath for a cause they see worthy even if it is false
I chose CSM as my army because I love the chaos gods, how they make things unique and fun, while knowing when I finish them, I will have a force that is very flexible and I can fit my strategies around that fact

I don't understand whats wrong with an army being forgiving? Is there something inherently wrong with a army being able let you make less mistakes?

If you don't like that I enjoy collecting Space marines or using them , well buddy you can sod off as far as I'm concerned

Space marines dominate literature of 40k cause they're the easiest to understand.
Warrior knights that are like hercules, fight foes out of nightmares and don't run in terror.

They get written about cause they epitomise everything a normal person wants to be.
And some authors delight in showing the inner darkness of those perfect beings.

Also the writers are generally terrible and the so called challenge of writing something from an alien view point is insurmountable for them. Actual characterization and involving plot basically doesn't happen in the majority of the 'literature', so it's always Awesome McBadass Von Awesomeness destroying his enemies with the power of awesome.

It would be interesting to get an ork's perspective on things.

Eldar have been tried, but there's just so little interest in them compared to IG or space marines.

Chaos Space Marines make an interesting if twisted character study.

Necrons.......T800 anyone?

Tyranids.....we're into Alien territory here.

Tau: These could be interesting

ChrisWWII wrote:Agree with TinyWhale. Fail troll is......actually, he HAS kept us going on for about 3 pages now, so....succesful troll is succesfull?

Actually, I think that someone spouting nonsense and being shut down by actual facts is pretty helpful for the people reading the thread.

Hmm, you could have a point there Monster Rain! Though, I would think that anyone who agrees with Dorian here....well, I begin to fear they may be beyond redemption.

If we only save one soul, this will all be worth it.

Monster Rain wrote:If we only save one soul, this will all be worth it.

Of course, we're here to save souls, not bodies

Lawls, I haven't been shut down.

There are a lot of people sick of Space Marines then you think - Not just me.

People can only stand cheese Blood Angels and Space Wolves. (Not to mention WAAC SM players who jump from codex to codex using their ultra-marines as "count as" models)

People get a lot more satisfaction beating Space Marines then some underpowered helpless army like Necrons or Eldar.

DorianGray wrote:Lawls, I haven't been shut down.

I don't think you've made a single point that hasn't been demonstrably false.

DorianGray wrote:People get a lot more satisfaction beating Space Marines then some underpowered helpless army like Necrons or Eldar.

"Underpowered and helpless" Necrons, huh?

Since I started playing Necrons again I'm undefeated by WAAC-cheese Space Marines. I even have battle reports.

I don't mind SM that much...
Though i would like to see GW mix things up and place a different faction in the driving seat... Imperial Guard for instance. Though people would be sick of them quickly as well.

Whoever is in the spotlight is going to catch a lot of gak.

It's just human nature.

The main problem is that

"Power Armor 3+ save" armies are almost half of all the co dexes out there.

Think about it: BT, SW, DA, SM, BA, GK, CSM (Everything but GK and CSM are essentially for 1 faction!)

Compared to how many Xenos there are: Necrons, Eldar, DE, Tau, Orks, Tyranids.

Every "other" GW codex update is space marines.

Don't you SM players think we need to mix it up a little?

Most Necrons have a 3+ save. Everything but Scarabs and the C'Tan, IIRC.

What is stopping people from playing Xenos armies again?