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Personally I like that eeeeveryone plays space marines (they do, we know it, get OVER it)..


It makes my listbuilding assumptions that much easier for my Necrons and Orks.

Yeah, there are some steaming piles of gouda in SW and in BA, and as they're fresher than the other codecii they get noticed more. Nonetheless, you'd be amazed at how freaked out a marine player (who has only ever fought other marine players and maybe Evil Marines or Eldar) will get when you politely inform him that his much vaunted 2+ 3++ save deathstar thunderhammer/stormshield termies (that he's been taunting you as being unbreakable) are going to find their armour and invulnerable utterly invalid against the NIghtbringer, or that his uber-super-dooper HQ has been reduced to squighood...

We have our cheese too, but ours either costs more per slice or isn't particularly reliable.

Cheese is good, within reason, as it generally comes with Whine, and it's nice to turn the tables once in a while...

*edited for clarity, dyslexia and removal of caffiene-lack illogic*

DorianGray wrote:The main problem is that

"Power Armor 3+ save" armies are almost half of all the co dexes out there.

Think about it: BT, SW, DA, SM, BA, GK, CSM

Compared to how many Xenos there are: Necrons, Eldar, DE, Tau, Tyranids.

Every "other" GW codex update is space marines.

Don't you SM players think we need to mix it up a little?

I'm in favour of a combined marine codex, it would basically cut the number down to 3 at most.
This could also be a test run to see how well it works and whether they can apply it to other armies. It won't impact that much on SM because they already have such a massive following...

Monster Rain wrote:

What is stopping people from playing Xenos armies again?

Lack of support and promotion from GW compared to SM relatively. I have to say the new Dark Eldar release was awesomely done but I've yet to see any newcomers start with them or a lot of little kids play them. The Tyranid release was abysmal and half the codex still doesn't have models.

That said Blood Angels and Wolves got the shiniest most over-powered books.

The 40k universe is so rich and wide, so GW needs to stop excessive promoting SM over everything else.

If Space Marines didn't exist, we would have to invent them. Otherwise, who else we Xenos players could mock or whine about?

Heh. I don't know who you're playing but Tyranids aren't that bad.

And you can't just discount the Dark Eldar because their release makes a mockery of your entire argument. That was an amazing Xenos release, man. And Necrons are due out sometime in the relatively near future and judging by the rumors it's going to be great.

I know Dark Eldar was amazing. I said that. Also I'm not saying Tyranids Codex is bad but their release was (as in zero hype, not much promotion)

But face it, it was only because it was a pet project of Jervis and Jes that it got so much attention and models.

The rest of the year is back to Space Marines.

I'm not asking for much. 1 SM codex a year instead of 2-3 we get now. Give the 2 other slots to something NOT wearing power armor.

I do think Xeno codeci should get more hype and attention. They should also get a more hyped second wave.

DorianGray wrote:I know Dark Eldar was amazing. I said that. Also I'm not saying Tyranids Codex is bad but their release was (as in zero hype, not much promotion)

But face it, it was only because it was a pet project of Jervis and Jes that it got so much attention and models.

What are you basing these statements on, exactly?

DorianGray wrote:I know Dark Eldar was amazing. I said that. Also I'm not saying Tyranids Codex is bad but their release was (as in zero hype, not much promotion)

But face it, it was only because it was a pet project of Jervis and Jes that it got so much attention and models.

The rest of the year is back to Space Marines.

I'm not asking for much. 1 SM codex a year instead of 2-3 we get now. Give the 2 other slots to something NOT wearing power armor.

What "2 or 3 SM codices" a year? 2010 BA, 2009 SW, 2008 Vanilla Space Marines, OK in 2007 there were two codices, BA and DA, but BA was just a stripped down mini-codex, which caused no end of whining amongst the BA players how they're always screwed over by GW.

Monster Rain wrote:Whoever is in the spotlight is going to catch a lot of gak.

It's just human nature.

True.

It's just that Spase Marines have been in the spotlight for about 25 years.

They're the focus of the story though.

Isn't that to be expected?

Monster Rain wrote:They're the focus of the story though.

Isn't that to be expected?

"Oh crap, another Jedi Codex. When is LucasFilm going to redo the Trade Federation book?"

Backfire wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:They're the focus of the story though.

Isn't that to be expected?

"Oh crap, another Jedi Codex. When is LucasFilm going to redo the Trade Federation book?"

Thank you. Yes. Exactly this.

Backfire wrote:

"Oh crap, another Jedi Codex. When is LucasFilm going to redo the Trade Federation book?"

EXACTLY! This is BS man.

haha.

DorianGray wrote:I know Dark Eldar was amazing. I said that. Also I'm not saying Tyranids Codex is bad but their release was (as in zero hype, not much promotion)

You mean other than 2-3 issues of White Dwarf, "Trygonathon" competitions where people built the nastiest looking critter to date, etc?
Yeah. Clearly that's zero hype.

But face it, it was only because it was a pet project of Jervis and Jes that it got so much attention and models.

What did Jervis have to do with the Dark Eldar?

It was Phil Kelly and Jes Goodwin, Jervis really had nothing to do with it.

The rest of the year is back to Space Marines.

What "rest of the year"? We've got at least two more waves scheduled for Dark Eldar. That's far more attention than my Dark Angels got.
The Dark Eldar book got far more attention than my Dark Angels, or even my Imperial Guard did.

I'm really not seeing this SM love you're seeing.

I'm not asking for much. 1 SM codex a year instead of 2-3 we get now. Give the 2 other slots to something NOT wearing power armor.

So basically your argument is they have to be wearing power armour?

Interesting. Necrons and their 3+ want a word with you.

Also: please do a better job counting codex releases. "2-3 a year" would mean that, again, my Dark Angels would already have been fully updated with a brand spankin' new book.

That's clearly not the case, and to represent it otherwise is downright fallacious.

DorianGray wrote:

People get a lot more satisfaction beating Space Marines then some underpowered helpless army like Necrons or Eldar.

*coughs politely* mechdar */cough*

And are you really telling me that when you, supposedly, ream any and all necron and eldar armies -because they're underpowered and helpless... and how could you NOT ream something that is underpowered an helpless?- that you say to yourself "boy, I sure do wish that I had been playing against blood angels and won, because this hardly counts as a victory."?

I'd like you to know that necrons and eldar happen to be two of 3 armies that I have an insanely hard time dealing with using my GoI army. And necrons account for 1 of my three losses since the onset of 5th edition, and I've played them twice, barely scraping a win. I look forward to playing against these "under powered and helpless" armies. Because they, actually, are extremely challenging in the right hands. And while you might say that "yes, but any army is challenging in the right hands", and you'd be correct, but this means that even under the assumption that you are, in fact, correct and that these codecies are gimped, you can still make really great armies from them, given enough experience, and creativity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:

Backfire wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:They're the focus of the story though.
Isn't that to be expected?

"Oh crap, another Jedi Codex. When is LucasFilm going to redo the Trade Federation book?"

Thank you. Yes. Exactly this.

DorianGray wrote:

Backfire wrote:
"Oh crap, another Jedi Codex. When is LucasFilm going to redo the Trade Federation book?"

EXACTLY! This is BS man.
haha.

i think it's funny that both sides used this as evidence to prove their point..

Gonna quote myself from another thread:

Opinions are like people's arseholes, everybody has one and thinks that the other's stinks.

Lord PoPo wrote:i think it's funny that both sides used this as evidence to prove their point..

Yeah, but I'm right.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

Monster Rain wrote:

Lord PoPo wrote:i think it's funny that both sides used this as evidence to prove their point..

Yeah, but I'm right.

Well this only goes without saying, you are on my side after all

Then it's settled!

I love my Space Marines. I don't see them as over or underpowered, I see their story as depthy and heroic and all that it is intended to be. I like that they are a feature of the game because they are an important part of the most crucial battles of the Imperium. The battles in 40k games represent the climax of larger scale wars, that's why every army has some kind of hero or abomination of great power leading it, so seeing them show up on a lot of tables should be no surprise.

As a new player the SM's are the easiest to pick up and play right away.

And the marine chapters that get the most love sell very well. I play Imperial Fists and the fluff available for my chapter is about 2 pages in the codex, 1 page for Lysander, 1/2 a page for the color scheme, and a couple of sentences on the Devastators page and the Razorbacks page. And there is 1 picture of Lysander in the back.

And most of the other vanilla marines are the same. Most of the codex is for the greats smurfs of 40k the Ultramarines. Granted the IF do have soem successor chapters that get love, the BT's have their own book if I recall.

If any SM army needs to be fluffed back for a short while it's the Ultramarines. However they are super easy to paint. My ten year old daughter took the five marines from the AoBR paint set and had them done in about 5 hours and 3 Orcs too. So that right there is a big reason why marines sell and why Ultras are so popular. Because they can be built quick and easy, and painted just as quick. Kids and new players can jump right in.

The other races require more time, and in some cases a lot more time. I'm building a Tervigon lead 'Nid list and it requires upwards of 400 points in termagaunts. Do the math on how many units that is at 7 points a model (add the 2 basic upgrades adrenal glands and toxin sacs). 20 basic marines is just 60 points shy of that. 170 + 170 = 340. IG are similiar in the need to field much larger infantry squads or more mech's and again those take time to buy and build and paint.

Orcs are similiar in that you need swarms of them, and I don't know about the Tau or Elder, but it looks as if they could need some time as well.

Necrons are probably like SM's except their codex is so old. I mean just a metallic grey and a little bit of green (or whatever color you want a the light/power source to be, GW has it green however in it's pics) and your on your way with them. But again they are the last xeno race to get the update.

yeenoghu wrote:I love my Space Marines. I don't see them as over or underpowered, I see their story as depthy and heroic and all that it is intended to be. I like that they are a feature of the game because they are an important part of the most crucial battles of the Imperium. The battles in 40k games represent the climax of larger scale wars, that's why every army has some kind of hero or abomination of great power leading it, so seeing them show up on a lot of tables should be no surprise.

Agree.

This is why I play Marines. I still love my Eldar though too.

I just dislike how power armour make the cover aspect of the game almost invalid (atleast for small arms) and of course grey marines posing as whatever chapter they want.

Apart from those reasons I cant really knock someone for picking an easy to paint and cheap to collect army It just gets on my nerves that I could have built a 3500 point marine army for what ive sunk into my orks (who cant really be competive over 1750 points due to having to run garbage to make points)

DorianGray wrote:People who play unique Marine Armies like Ravenwing, or Deathwing or fluffy armies get a pass.

WAAC Space Wolves players who spam IMBA long fangs, Thunderwolves, and Blood Angels running Mephiston, lord of cheese don't. Note this also applies to IG running leafblower lists with 10 Chimeras, Vendettas, etc. (aka. a@@holes)

I wish 95% of kids didn't start 40k with Space Marines. They aren't cool , they're over-done, and being drawn to "THIS IS SPARTAAA" wearing power-armor is really immature.

You piss me off so much, I can't even begin. I bet you're just mad that people who actually make competitive lists destroyed your gakky-ass "fluffy" footdar army. There's nothing wrong with lists that are effective, and there's nothing wrong with marines.

Oh, space wolves and blood angels are not OP btw.

Space Marines are, by themselves, not the problem with 40k. It's the oversaturation of Space Marines. Space Marines get books for every conceivable minor tiny variation in battle doctrine or wargear. "zOMG these Red/Green/Grey/Black Space Marines uses unit X or Special Rule Y or Tactic Z way more than Blue Space Marines, THEY **NEED** THEIR OWN BOOK!" while other armies sit around and see this and think "well, our faction does stuff like that too, but we don't get special distinct books for it". Then of course the other SM armies want those same abilities because they can point to instances where they did it too. Between Blood Angels and C:SM, they share outright 80% of their units, weapons and wargear, and almost all the remainder is variations of common items/units.

The Space Marines are featured in absolutely everything 40k related, they are everywhere.The problem is, not only does this overshadow an strangle off access to other races, it takes away from what should be special about the Space Marines and makes them generic, it makes them average, it makes them common. I never look at Space Marines and think "that's a dangerous elite unit", I think "it's the average that everything else is centered around".

They end up being overhyped and oversaturated, they lose their appeal and become the default, the common standard. They're the thing that everyone has seen a billion times and no longer cares, but gets featured over and over to the point where people just don't want to see it anymore.



While the above attitude isn't necessarily universal, it's also by no means an opinion that's confined to a tiny hidden minority either.

Oh SHUT UP! Space Marines are the center of the game. They're awesome, and the company THAT MAKES THE GAME loves them. Deal, or go play something else. Either way, SHUT UP!

(by the way, I play everything except Orks and Dark Eldar - and yes, I love all the armies I play. I don't bitch about Space Marines because NO ONE IS TWISTING MY ARM to play them!)

Oh, and SHUT UP.

PLEASE DO NOT YELL AT OTHER POSTERS TO "SHUT UP". IT'S RUDE, A VIOLATION OF DAKKA RULES: <----then why are you yelling at me? *sniff* My widdle feewings are hurt now....

http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp

posting in a thread only to scream "shut up" is about as helpful, and contributes about as much to the discussion, as flapping your arms to pretend you're puff the magic dragon, and probably less mature.

Let's not drag maturity into it, or neither side of this travesty of a thread has a leg to stand on.

Except for those who agree with me, that is.