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If I remember correctly, gargantuan creatures have a rule that weapons with fixed roll to wound (2+,3+ etc.) always wound on 6's only. So Sliscus wouldn't make a difference.
Don't have Apoc book with me at the moment tho.

Actually no, that rule is sniper and poisoned weapons wound it in a 6+ only.

Had no idea that mere talk of a hierophant would warrant 3 pages of responses. So here's another one for you, my opponent plans on running Agg'garth the unbound. Do you think that the daemon could measure up to a hierophant?

i have killed about 5-6 hierophants, in the last 2 years... my army is tank heavy (over 20) but i find the best way to kill them are with things with ap2, i have killed a hirtophant in 1 turn with the following:

- 4 Vanquishers (st8 ap2) with las cannons (1 pask)
- Around 20 las cannon shots
- 3 Offico Assasian Snipers (their +2 wound special bullet)

Er, those +2 wound special bullets shouldn't work. Gargantuan creatures can only be wounded by snipers and poison on a 6. (Unless I'm misremembering the book again).

Don't officio assassinorum operatives also have a special rule to the effect of "no more than one can ever be fielded by the same side for any reason"?

I would think adjustments to poison or snipers should override the wound on 6 thing, due to being more specific than it. Both wound on four by default, it says that they all wound on a 6, and then something else says "this specific instance wounds on a 3+/2+/whatever".

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Don't officio assassinorum operatives also have a special rule to the effect of "no more than one can ever be fielded by the same side for any reason"?

Apocalypse doesn't overrule this?

I would think adjustments to poison or snipers should override the wound on 6 thing, due to being more specific than it. Both wound on four by default, it says that they all wound on a 6, and then something else says "this specific instance wounds on a 3+/2+/whatever".

Depends. If the Heirophant rule says "Weapons that auto-wound on a 2+ or 4+ become 6+" then yes. However, if it says "Poison and Sniper weapons that wound on 2+/4+ become 6+" then no, the Special Shot still works (I think), and witchblades would also work.

The rule specifically states 'All sniper weapons and poisoned weapons wound gargantuan creatures only on a roll of 6'.

You be cheating there, sir. The Exitus Rifle is a sniper type weapon, hellfire rounds to change your to wond roll, but the Gargantuan Creature rule overrides it. The rule states it changes your to wound toll from a 4+ to a 2+, but it is still a sniper weapon which the rule is a blanket resistance to.

-Loki- wrote:The rule specifically states 'All sniper weapons and poisoned weapons wound gargantuan creatures only on a roll of 6'.

You be cheating there, sir. The Exitus Rifle is a sniper type weapon, hellfire rounds to change your to wond roll, but the Gargantuan Creature rule overrides it. The rule states it changes your to wound toll from a 4+ to a 2+, but it is still a sniper weapon which the rule is a blanket resistance to.

Point. But do witchblades count as poisoned?

I'm probably wrong here, but, assuming that he could actually get close enough, could Old Zogwort turn it into a squig?

No, gargantuan creatures are immune to psychic powers that do not have a strength value.

Actually you can kill one without superheavies. In a recent Apoc team battle, we faced a heirophant. We had daemons and CSM. I took a daemon gift of slaanesh which allowed me to control any enemy unit for one of its shooting phases. My partner took a vortex grenade.

I took control of the heirophant and shot up its carnifex squads pretty good. My partner approached with abaddon. Then we assaulted it with abaddon, a bloodthirster and a daemon prince, after shooting it with everything we had and chucking a vortex grenade at it. It went down, and most of our army survived. It's not overpowered, because in apocalypse there are many overpowered answers.

Not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but An'ggrath will eat a Hierophant in assault. He's hitting on 3's, wounding on 3's, and he's got alot of attacks (theoretically infinite) from which the Hierophant will only get a 5+ save. He's also got a nice 4+ invulnerable against the Hierophant's attacks.

I know this because we have a Nid and Chaos player who duked it out in an Apoc game not too long ago. The Nid player confidently assaulted An'ggrath with his Hierophant. The Phant suffered 5 wounds, dealt two, and then died in the Chaos player's turn.

Darth Bob wrote:Not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but An'ggrath will eat a Hierophant in assault. He's hitting on 3's, wounding on 3's, and he's got alot of attacks (theoretically infinite) from which the Hierophant will only get a 5+ save. He's also got a nice 4+ invulnerable against the Hierophant's attacks.

I know this because we have a Nid and Chaos player who duked it out in an Apoc game not too long ago. The Nid player confidently assaulted An'ggrath with his Hierophant. The Phant suffered 5 wounds, dealt two, and then died in the Chaos player's turn.

That's the Tyranid player being stupid. It's nor hard to keep it out of reach of An'ggrath, unless he's got more than the normal flight movement (I haven't read his rules). If he's winged, he can move 12" and run D6". The Heirophant moves 12" and can fleet 2d6". The point about the hierophant being broken for its point cost isn't just its durability, but its mobility and damage output at range.

Again suggesting a Tally list, though bearing in mind the poisoned thing. Get Tally to 20 as per normal, then just shoot it as I'll have to use its 5+ Invul. saves against any wound dealt to it. I think a squad of 20 Plague marines could easily take it out. Or anything that's got Nurgle in its name.

Just out of curiosity why does everyone keep referring to a 5+ invul save. The hierophant has the warp field power, that's a Zoanthrope psychic ability that confers a 3+ invuln. There are no 5+ invuln saves in the tyrnaid codex I own, at least not in 5th edition. Countless forums agree on that fact and the apoc rule clearly state WARP FIELD. Furthermore An'ggrath the Unbound (who is totally friggin awsome) does indeed wound a hierophant on 3=, howevver you neglected to mention that the hierophant wounds him on a 2+ because the bio titan has a st. 10, and Aggy only has toughness 8. Furthermore, the bio titan always goes first, it has lash whip and that means anything that touches, with the exception of banhees I believe, goes at initiative one. That means the titan will unload it's 8 attacks if chargeed, nine if assuling, first no matter what. Aggy only has a 4+ invuln, and again the bio-titan has a 3+ invul. The bio titan regenerates, and has two more wounds, and gets two extra attacks via spore cloud and toxic miasma at the end of the roound. 20 lass cannons would be a formidable threat to it, but they only wound on 5's and the titan still gets it's three plus invuln save. I know hierophants can be killed, and I know that An'ggrath the Unbound is certainly a unit capable of the feat, but I son't believe that anything is going to take out a bio-titan easy. All the people I've talked to hate, and have centered all the fire power against it and still couldn't kill it in a prolonged game. This story comes from an experienced imperial guard player.

There is no consent, at least on Dakka, that you should use the new warp field power.

Further more to stop that nurgle power that allows them ignore armor save all you have to do is kill epidemius, he only has a tg. of 5 and 3 wounds, a hirophant can slaughter him in one round of shooting, it gets 16 shots at str 10 at 48 inches. Also epidemius power only ignores regular armor saves, not invuln saves, so the bio-titan still gets it 3+ invuln no matter what. My hieophant dosen't fear nurgle. Especially since poision and sniper attacks can only wound it on 6's. Now the las cannons I believe pose a mush more serious threat.

We are referring to a 5++ save because that's what it has. It was designed under 4th edition, with the 4th edition Warp Field psychic power, that conferred a 2+ 5++ save.

I believe someone in this thread said GW actually stated this. If you want to give it the 3++ warp field, at least offer to eat a few hundred more points, because it will make the thing almost unkillable by heavy weapons.

Ah, so that's what every body is talking about, I've never played 4th edition rules. Another nid player told me that in 4th ed thropes had a 2+ invuln save, when I checked the facts I can see that this was obviously wrong as well. Most of the folks who play around here all told me that the all use 3+ invuln save which is why the biotitan is so deadly. I've checked various sites to discover some older style plaers prefer the old rules, while others feel that it the new rules apply. I can't seem to find any consensus, and many people seem to run it both ways. An perplexing situation, especially since G.W. doesn't ever seem to answer any questions concerning Apoc rules. (I teird emailing a couple, lost cause.) I do hope that sometime in the near future perhaps they will release new Apoc books to help upgrade clypse to the fifth edition, but knowing GW they'll do it and then promptly release 6th edition anyway..


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Now I'm really curious, Iv'e only played 2nd ed and fith edition rules. Would any other apoc players now of fifth edition change overs that have caused similar difficulties with the rules similar to the issue posed by the hierophant?

The thing is, GW have apparently answered this question. It gets the 2+ 5++ warp field from 4th edition according to them.

Putting the 3++ save on it is a cheap shot. It makes it practically invulnerable. Well, unless the new Vindicare assassin shieldbreaker rules are correct, which permanently strip invulnerable saves. That would really hurt the Hierophants day.

Could you possibly tell me the official web site where they mentioned this. Everybody keeps saying that but there is no official confirmation and no one can actually tell me anything official. I'm not just interested in this question, but as a nid player I have some people tell me that without number is no longer legal, but if that is the case and the codex is valid over apoc and without number is no lobger legal then should I be using the 3++ save out of the current codex. It seems I opened my own can of worms here, and now I have way more questions then answerers. The most important thing is that everybody enjoy themselves, but to be honest a 1250 point model had better be pretty damn tough. With only a 2+ save and 5+ invuln I'm not going to pay 1250 for a model that could get killed in one turn. However i also don't want to field it if it's going to turn opponents away from table, and some folks I talk to tell me that since blood angle dreadnoughts now fly and dark eldar can shoot 4 shatter field missiles in one round annihilating half your hoard army a lot of players are telling me to use the 3++ because it makes the hierophant worth playing. If i could find that official faq it would settle a lot of issues.

I recently used the Heirophant with only a 3++ and it was tough to kill no doubt, but it was left on 5 wounds at the end of the game. I had admittedly kept it out of range of all the lascannons on the table. The damage was done by a few TH/SS termies and a vortex grenade.

If a 3++ is considered a cheap shot in your area just try it with a 4++. Though I consider the gargantuan creatures just help balance the playing field since all our MC's get IDed by any D-weapon just touching them.

Thanks Lukas83, that's about the best advice anyone has given me.

-Loki- wrote:The thing is, GW have apparently answered this question. It gets the 2+ 5++ warp field from 4th edition according to them.

Putting the 3++ save on it is a cheap shot. It makes it practically invulnerable. Well, unless the new Vindicare assassin shieldbreaker rules are correct, which permanently strip invulnerable saves. That would really hurt the Hierophants day.

GW has answered this question for many people who have called in and asked. No, it's not a FAQ or Errata, but hearing it from the source is just as good. And just because its called warp field, doesn't mean its the same warp field from another book. I know there are alot of examples of same or similarly named weapons or gear with different stats. The heirophant is not in the nid codex at all...so it doesn't really matter what the codex says or what edition its in...its only the apoc book.

And the Apoc Book has no description of what the Warp Field does, so RAW it does nothing.

Where is everyone getting this 5++ from? The 4th edition warp field power gave a 2+/6++

Heh, technically Warp Field specifically states that it gives the Zoanthropes 3++... a Hierophant isn't a Zoanthrope

The Imperial Armour Book gives the Hierophant a 5++ warpfield save, as Warpfield was an actual rule, not referencing a long-gone Codex psychic power.

Yeah, Forgeworld are like that. They overcost their stuff. While it is a big scary unit with potential, it's not gamebreaking.