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Kevin949 wrote:I should have clarified that I meant what I said when taking him with WRAITHS. A foot lord coupled with wraiths is just a terrible idea.

Ah. Well yeah I can't really disagree with that!

People were missing my point about my origional wraith post

You dont use them on thier own, or with other wraith's.

The idea is for them to act as a shield unit for a destroyer lord.
Give him shifter and destroyer body and your good to go.
Take the scythe too if you really want it. (more than worth it)

Meph can either bounce a few wounds off the wraiths or do the same to the lord, but unless he has amazing rolls, he wont kill the lord.
Who will in turn hit back ignoring his 2+ save and and FNP.

Failing that, twin lords, hell, throw in a C'tan if you really want him dead, they just lack the speed to get it done though.


Also, keep in mind that a Dlord and wraiths can turbo boost, so you should be attacking him on the 2nd turn at the latest.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Meph can either bounce a few wounds off the wraiths or do the same to the lord, but unless he has amazing rolls, he wont kill the lord.
Who will in turn hit back ignoring his 2+ save and and FNP.

Mephiston has a Strength 10 Force Weapon, if his power goes off.

The Lord would get beat down pretty hard by that.

Do force weapons always insta-kill?

Either way, a 4+ invul and T6 on the lord means he won't be outright killing him based on strength vs. toughness (for ID purposes) alone.

Yes. If he wounds you and rolls a successful psychic test (which he will...)

The Invulnerable might help, if you can roll well, but if he gets one wound through he can ID via his force weapon.

Same problem why nightbringer doesn't work against him.... If there wasn't for force weapon, nightbringer should be able to kill him (well not with ease:p).... But this way a non-eternal warrior god dies before even striking back

Yeah, the C'Tan were kind of our ace-in-the-hole against CC armies.

I guess that's all over.

Is WBB workable against Force Weapons? (with Res Orb in tow?)

Yes, only with an Orb. It's a power weapon normally, but ID doesn't do anything the power weapon effect didn't to begin with.

Everything that was said here is true, and Mephiston is a tough one for us and our C'tan masters. If your playing a shabby Blood Angel player then you can easily deal with him with Heavy Destroyers, but against tournament list that consists of heavy fire from Razors and missile launchers they can be easily wiped out. So really there are only 3 ways of dealing with the Lord Of Death and I have had good results so far.

One way is by making him run away using Nightmare Shroud, the Deceiver's fear attack (I forget what it's called), and tank shocking with the Monolith. This works best with Pariahs to reduce his LD to 7 and just watching him run away is pretty funny for someone carrying the title "Lord Of Death". Even better, you can have a wall of Scarabs behind him so when he fails he'll be trapped instantly killing him.

Another way is the traditional Necron way and just massive fire him to death. My list consists of 15 Destroyers, 8 Immortals, 20 Warriors, 1 Monolith, and Lord W/Veil + Solar Pulse. I like to use the Monolith as bait since most Mephiston players love to destroy the Monolith with him. If he succeeds or fails I just blast him with my whole army and he either dies on that round of shooting or the next. With all that fire he will go down, worst case scenario he'll destroy the Monolith and still be alive to assault one of your units on his next turn, depending how the games been going that might not be so bad since I can still shoot him and escape with Turbo boost or Veil. Finally the last way is just running away. Using Veil, Turbo Boost, the Deceiver jumping from combat can keep you going for sometime. Try to use terrain to slow him down a few turns if possible and just escape while using monoliths to deep strike next to his army and blasting them. If he tries to attack the Monolith after it Deep Strikes then he's going to need 6's to hit it making it harder for him to damage it.

This is in my opinion the best way to counter Mephiston with the current Codex. Hopefully we'll have better options when the next dex comes out, for the mean time I hope this helps.

That line of fire will cause, on average, 2.6 wounds to Mephiston before the Monolith template.

Then he charges and kills a unit.

I play a Wraith Wing....

I see my wraiths charging him, then teleporting out of combat to charge in again, with two sets of WBBs from my Rez orb and monoliths keeping them alive until he's dead.

So, by my calculations that's at least...

123 for one squad of wraiths
235 for one Monolith
170 for one Destroyer Lord with an Orb.

Not exactly points efficient. I don't think you'd win that game even if you did manage to kill Mephiston.

They also work well on everything else when he's dead

The lith can still fire its secondary guns and teleport, so place it well and make use of that

The orb also has a bubble that other units can benefit from.

Just a point here about tank shocking him.
Do you really want to move your slow fortress towards something faster, and with S10?
I would keep the lith out of his way.

While i cant stand the models or thier rules, pariah's are pretty good against him.
Dropping him to LD7 may not seem like alot, but thats an average roll for LD tests.
So chances are ok that you can keep his LD and let him burn himself out.
Or simply throw a large unit of pariah's and a scythelord at him.


Another thing, which again i wouldnt take unless i had no choice would be heavy D's.
2/3 shots hit, both wound, both ignore his save.
So on average your doing 2 wounds a turn to him, and at a nice range.

Necron lords with warschythes and as many close combat/save orientated powers as possible

And it takes 1 wound=6 before saves=12 hits=24 attacks

So a unit of charging Wraiths deals .5 wounds to Mephiston per charge. In return, he puts one on the ground. So as long as you make your LD 9, he'll stay tied up for quite a while. Or until help arrives.

Ascalam wrote:They also work well on everything else when he's dead

True, but Wraiths aren't going to be wounding the guy with any kind of regularity. It'll take, what, 24 attacks to get one wound through?

Ascalam wrote:The lith can still fire its secondary guns and teleport, so place it well and make use of that

The Gauss Flux Arc is pretty poor against Blood Angels.

Ascalam wrote:The orb also has a bubble that other units can benefit from.

No question about that.

Anyway:

If I had three Monoliths I'd rather be shooting at Mephiston with the Particle Whips and hoping for a "Hit" for the AP1 goodness.

Some silly Mathhammer...

If you used Destoyers to kill him (normal ones) and he has 5 wounds?
It takes 135 shots to kill him....
you need 6 wounds to make him take a wound.
Which requires 18 hits (1/3 of them wound him....)
18 hits, requires 27 shots.
to get that 5 times, its 135 shots.....Which will take 15 Destroyers 3 turns to do.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:
While i cant stand the models or thier rules, pariah's are pretty good against him.
Dropping him to LD7 may not seem like alot, but thats an average roll for LD tests.
So chances are ok that you can keep his LD and let him burn himself out.
Or simply throw a large unit of pariah's and a scythelord at him.

For this to work the Pariahs have to charge him. Otherwise he'll put up S10, jump pack, +d3 attacks outside of the bubble, charge them, and kill 5 or so. Then he's got your CC phase to mop them up before he has to take a LD 7 test or flee.

The Grog wrote:

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:
While i cant stand the models or thier rules, pariah's are pretty good against him.
Dropping him to LD7 may not seem like alot, but thats an average roll for LD tests.
So chances are ok that you can keep his LD and let him burn himself out.
Or simply throw a large unit of pariah's and a scythelord at him.

For this to work the Pariahs have to charge him. Otherwise he'll put up S10, jump pack, +d3 attacks outside of the bubble, charge them, and kill 5 or so. Then he's got your CC phase to mop them up before he has to take a LD 7 test or flee.

He can't give himself +1d3 attacks.

2 options:

You can go the Dash way and use wraiths with their 3++ saves and their 2 sets of WBB (Destroyer lord is near) to grind Meph down...

Another way is to field 15 Destroyers and 9 Heavy destroyers and kite him with your 12" move until he dies... He has no invulnerable save correct?

no, no invulnerable.

He can, however, cast his Wings power and keep up with you

QuietOrkmi wrote:2 options:

You can go the Dash way and use wraiths with their 3++ saves and their 2 sets of WBB (Destroyer lord is near) to grind Meph down...

Another way is to field 15 Destroyers and 9 Heavy destroyers and kite him with your 12" move until he dies... He has no invulnerable save correct?

Except that my 9 wraiths are a competitive Necron list, and 15 destroyers + 9 heavy destroyers isn't.

Dashofpepper wrote:

QuietOrkmi wrote:2 options:

You can go the Dash way and use wraiths with their 3++ saves and their 2 sets of WBB (Destroyer lord is near) to grind Meph down...

Another way is to field 15 Destroyers and 9 Heavy destroyers and kite him with your 12" move until he dies... He has no invulnerable save correct?

Except that my 9 wraiths are a competitive Necron list, and 15 destroyers + 9 heavy destroyers isn't.

Well, if they were your Deckchairs of Doom.

Dashofpepper wrote:

QuietOrkmi wrote:2 options:

You can go the Dash way and use wraiths with their 3++ saves and their 2 sets of WBB (Destroyer lord is near) to grind Meph down...

Another way is to field 15 Destroyers and 9 Heavy destroyers and kite him with your 12" move until he dies... He has no invulnerable save correct?

Except that my 9 wraiths are a competitive Necron list, and 15 destroyers + 9 heavy destroyers isn't.

Fifteen Destroyers is pretty competitive.

Other than the C'Tan and Warriors everything else is just window dressing for a destroyer wing.

15 destroyers....and no monoliths?

I don't think that's competitive. :(

15 Destroyers and the Deceiver is pretty ugly.

Well, if it gets first turn. Then it's a little less of a nasty build. But still, at least 15 gauss cannon shots fired at anything the Necron player wants from optimal firing position is a pretty impressive thing. I like Monoliths, though. Don't get me wrong, I don't leave home without them. I'm just saying some people do and they do okay with them.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Just a point here about tank shocking him.
Do you really want to move your slow fortress towards something faster, and with S10?
I would keep the lith out of his way.

You won't be chasing him, he will come to you. I rolled some dice and the results of him taking down the Monolith really aren't that great. Yeah he can do it if he rolls good enough. The Monolith should always be moving so when he attacks he's going to need 4's to hit, 5's to pen, and 5 to take it down. With six attacks that's harder then it sounds, that's why I said it's a good thing if he does attack the Monolith because if he fails to destroy it he will be open to heavy fire.

Dashofpepper wrote:

QuietOrkmi wrote:2 options:

You can go the Dash way and use wraiths with their 3++ saves and their 2 sets of WBB (Destroyer lord is near) to grind Meph down...

Another way is to field 15 Destroyers and 9 Heavy destroyers and kite him with your 12" move until he dies... He has no invulnerable save correct?

Except that my 9 wraiths are a competitive Necron list, and 15 destroyers + 9 heavy destroyers isn't.

I have to say, 15 Destroyers and 9 Heavy Destroyers is a very deadly combination, but like Monster Rain said it's only effective if it gets first turn. All you really need is cover saves from Warriors with a Res Orb and Solar Pulse and this list can pretty much hurt any army builds out there on first turn. It can just shoot from a distance and do lots of damage were as the Wraith Wing has to get close and personal and even then it might not do much.

I kind of like how Monster Rain plays his Necrons and after doing some reading on other sites and rolling some dice I found that if you can do 2 wounds on Mephiston and then attack him with the Lord and 3 Tomb Spyders, you might have a pretty good chance of taking him down. Like I said, Mephiston will come to you so just let him and with 2 Monoliths, Res Orb, Destroyers and Tomb Spyders he will more then likely go after the Monoliths. Just use a proper Phalanx and after he's done doing his buisness hit him with everything you've got. The Lord will go down but at least that will be one or two attacks going to the lord instead of the Tomb Spyders, and yes he will more then likely attack the Lord since he's the HQ and has the Res Orb giving the rest of the army a WBB roll, then on next turn with the Res Orb and Phylactery he's got a 50% chance of getting back up. Worste case scenario he will kill all 3 and the Lord giving him 4 kill points, but he'll be open again to some fire from everything else, and hopefully you'll get more kill points with the other Monolith and Destroyers.

You know, I don't know how well 15+9 would do. Experience says Monoliths do better than 3 HeavyDs, but with 9 you may mitigate the classic HeavyD problem: low numbers means it's easy to deny WBB.

I also find it kind of sad that we have a 3 page thread with all sorts of attempts, from possible to improbable, to deal with a single 250 point model. The problem isn't just Mephiston, but also dealing with the rest of the army while you've got 400+ points trying to handle the flying psychic vampire.