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1st you shoot the shield breaker round.

next turn you shoot the Turbo-penetrator.


the Farseer has only 2 wounds IIRC so he should be dead.

I just don't think Paladins are going to be all that great because they are much too slow. You are sinking tons of points into a unit that can only do so much per turn. What is funny is that in some circles the Stormraven is suddenly en vogue now. That is such a hoot.

As far as the Apothecary goes if you are paying all those points you might as well go all the way. He is definitely overpriced though.

Grey Templar wrote:1st you shoot the shield breaker round.

next turn you shoot the Turbo-penetrator.


the Farseer has only 2 wounds IIRC so he should be dead.

3 wounds, but the Shield Breaker will wound him on a 4+, and if you wound with the Turbo Penetrator, that will be two more wounds that will kill him.

FNP as an upgrade costs almost 1.5 the cost of a paladin, and they are already expensive. On top of the high cost pallies are 2 wound models with a 2+ armor save, so regular wounds are already a minimal threat to the pallies. Its paying buckets of points to better protect against a minimal threat. The stuff most likely to kill pallies is the same stuff that ignores fnp.

Grey Templar wrote:1st you shoot the shield breaker round.

next turn you shoot the Turbo-penetrator.


the Farseer has only 2 wounds IIRC so he should be dead.

I thought the vindicare assassin only got to assign wounds using his sniper ability? As such, can he actually pick out which model he is shooting at with the shield breaker round? I haven't read that much of the released codex yet, so I could be completely wrong...

If someone could post the actual wording, that would be great.

I cannot provide actual wording, but he allows the attacking player to allocate wounds to any member of the squad the assassin is firing at. Similar to Sergeant Telion's ability.

Footsloggin wrote:I cannot provide actual wording, but he allows the attacking player to allocate wounds to any member of the squad the assassin is firing at. Similar to Sergeant Telion's ability.

Well the shield breaker round doesn't cause 'a wound'. So how in the world would the vindi be allowed to allocate which model is taking the shield breaker round?

The new 2 rules in question say:

Deadshot - Wounds caused by a Vindicare's shooting attacks are always allocated by the Vindicare's controlling player.
Shield Breaker - When a WOUND from this round is allocated to a model it loses any invulnerable save granted to it by wargear immediatley and for the rest of the game. Remaining saves(if any) can still be taken.

So that answers that question, using deadshot you allocate the wound of the shield breaker round. The only other thing to point out is now the rifle is AP 1 and its heavy, so the Vindicare cant move and shoot.

imweasel wrote:

Footsloggin wrote:I cannot provide actual wording, but he allows the attacking player to allocate wounds to any member of the squad the assassin is firing at. Similar to Sergeant Telion's ability.

Well the shield breaker round doesn't cause 'a wound'. So how in the world would the vindi be allowed to allocate which model is taking the shield breaker round?

If you follow down that line no model would ever be affected because you can't allocate the shot at all which is obviously BS ;-).

he might not think it causes wounds because there is not Str value.



the Exitus rifle is a Sniper rifle, and as such causes wounds on a 4+ and has the rending special rule. the special ammo is on top of this(obviously the Hellfire round wound on 2+)

The mathhammer has been interesting, but it strikes me as a digression from the central point of whether FNP is forth the points on a Paladin unit.

It seems to me that having one Paladin unit without FNP will make it a high priority target for saturated small arms fire, whilst giving it FNP will make it a high priority target for heavy anti-tank fire. And it's probably going to be more of a metagame issue as to which option will give the better mileage.

On the other hand, several Paladin squads with FNP, whilst being horrendously expensive, will be a frightening prospect for any army not already packed to the gills with S8 AP2. Especially if their supporting units can neutralise any SS/TH or LC units (or such) able to win at stone-paper-scissors.

Though good luck getting a return on such an investment...

Target saturation would be the only way to use paladins with apothecaries, but that goes against the whole "I'm expensive as hell" thing. Given that the current meta is geared towards vehicle destruction (hence, high strength and high AP) FnP is probably not worth it, especially when a meager 5 wounds will wipe the entire squad.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Vindicare. 1st shot the Farseer looses his only save. Then just land a S6+ attack on him. Dead Seer Council.

Its still easier to kill a Vindicare than a farseer in a seer council who are probably in a vehicle(especially a wave serpent).

W2 T4, stealth, 6+ FNP is not very resilient when they are left alone.

with a 36" range he is most definitly sitting in a terrain piece in the GK deployment zone.

Stealth means he's got a 3+ cover save too.


and who runs foot councils

the Vindicare's just going to turbo-penetrate the Waveserpant and make them walk(Holo-fields won't help much against 4d6)


The assassin will be impossable to dig out with shooting and you really can't afford to chase shadows while the Gks rip through your lines.

Zonder wrote:The new 2 rules in question say:

Deadshot - Wounds caused by a Vindicare's shooting attacks are always allocated by the Vindicare's controlling player.
Shield Breaker - When a WOUND from this round is allocated to a model it loses any invulnerable save granted to it by wargear immediatley and for the rest of the game. Remaining saves(if any) can still be taken.

So that answers that question, using deadshot you allocate the wound of the shield breaker round. The only other thing to point out is now the rifle is AP 1 and its heavy, so the Vindicare cant move and shoot.

Ahh...

Well that works then. So you roll to hit and wound, then allocate the wound. So in addition to taking a wound you lose your invul save. Very nasty.

and you don't get to take an Invuln save to stop the invun removing round.

and since it's ap1 you don't get armor or FnP either.

Grey Templar wrote:and you don't get to take an Invuln save to stop the invun removing round.

and since it's ap1 you don't get armor or FnP either.

Yep. Only cover saves after getting hit by a shield breaker round. Of course, it only works if you take a wound.

Sourclams: The math refutes your Vendetta Paladin killing power claims. You need 6 Vendetta to wipe the paladin squad: 9 T-L Bs 3 shots = 6.375 hits, which equals 5.3125 wounds, You said they were in cover so that is 2.65625 unsaved wounds/ Vendetta Squadron.

A single Ordnance Barrage could do it(if they were behind cover not in it), but the chances of it landing on target is roughly 20%, on a Basilisk(% chance to score a hit or only scatter 2" and somehow still hit all 5, and wound all 5, with all 5 failing their 5++)

So 18 BS3 Twin linked Lascannons/Melta to expect a dead squad, 24 BS3 non-t-l Sr 6+, Ap 2- weapons, 18 BS4 non-t-l Sr 6+, Ap 2- weapons, or 14 BS4 t-l Sr 6+, Ap 2- weapons.

Apothecaries are more worth it the larger the squad of Paladins, with about 7 being the magic number (then you're paying a little more than 10 points per model for FNP - a fair trade IMO).

The bit about 10 Lascannon wounds from Vendettas strikes me as hilarious. I mean, yea, sure, you can do it, but that's a lot of anti-tank fire that didn't target the Psyflemen Dreads that'll presently be shooting those birds out of the sky, or the rhinos carrying Strike Squads to the midfield, etc.

Paladins should serve the same role that TWC or Death Company do in other armies: Provide a distraction. A scary, credible threat of a distraction that can turn the game in your favor, but a distraction nevertheless. Adding FNP only makes them more potent, and is worth it, I feel.

bhsman wrote:
The bit about 10 Lascannon wounds from Vendettas strikes me as hilarious. I mean, yea, sure, you can do it, but that's a lot of anti-tank fire that didn't target the Psyflemen Dreads that'll presently be shooting those birds out of the sky, or the rhinos carrying Strike Squads to the midfield, etc.

Paladins should serve the same role that TWC or Death Company do in other armies: Provide a distraction. A scary, credible threat of a distraction that can turn the game in your favor, but a distraction nevertheless. Adding FNP only makes them more potent, and is worth it, I feel.

But just how many Dreads, Rhinos, Strike squads etc you will be taking if you spend bulk of your points to Paladin squad?

The problem with palladins in general as I see it before the codex comes out officially with Palladins is that they have 3 ways to get where they need to go. Walking into a shooting gallery, a LR, or a SR. Walking is going to get them shot a lot. And while they can be put into some vehicles, that adds min 200 points to their price tag already. Nob bikers are much better overall because they have so much mobility without another unit to carry them around. Palladins can be used I think if you build a list around them and make the scoring, and they may carry some shock and awe value but they will need to be very carefully used to be worth taking.

Short of taking two 10-man squads with all the fixings, I'm not seeing the 'bulk' part.

Grey Templar wrote:with a 36" range he is most definitly sitting in a terrain piece in the GK deployment zone.

Stealth means he's got a 3+ cover save too.


and who runs foot councils

the Vindicare's just going to turbo-penetrate the Waveserpant and make them walk(Holo-fields won't help much against 4d6)


The assassin will be impossable to dig out with shooting and you really can't afford to chase shadows while the Gks rip through your lines.

Wave serpents use engery fields that prevent you using more than 1D6 to pen and all shots can only ever count as high as Str 8. Against ranged attacks that are on the front or side. Makes it hard to deal with.

The pain for me has been the council on Jetbikes its hard to deal with :(

obsidianaura wrote:
Wave serpents use engery fields that prevent you using more than 1D6 to pen and all shots can only ever count as high as Str 8. Against ranged attacks that are on the front or side. Makes it hard to deal with.

The pain for me has been the council on Jetbikes its hard to deal with :(

Guide, Doom, and Fortune work at the start of your turn. You can cast and then turboboost, situation permitting. Should be possible to maintain fortune-self, doom-other that way.

I have been playtesting GK since the leaked dex hit, and I have tested them extensively since the black box hit.

I have played with and against GKP and I can say without a doubt in my mind that they are a useless points sink in this army.

They are so expensive in an already expensive army - It isn't that they are *BAD* - there are just far better choices in the codex.

I challenge you to post a good list using them.
Any list you post with them, I will IMPROVE by replacing them with a cheaper, more focused unit.

Anyone accept my challenge?

I will only accept a duel...because, after all, I killed your father.

PREPARE TO DIE!!!!

Inconceivable

OMFG inigo is going to kill a tournament organizer!!!!

I think it should be pretty clear if you are spending 25% of your points on a single unit / it more times than not will only benefit from an army being created around it.

as far as movement:
Deep Strike
Lib:
1) Stealth (hell in a vehicle)
2) summoning

my 2 cents
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one thing I haven't seen yet:
1 single paladin w/ psy can + ammo + mastercrafted
=
str 8 (rending might I add)

4/2 shots

re-rolls on both / all

all this on a 2 wound for a cool 100 = priceless

thats like 50 pts cheaper than the dread, and can be stealth.
to bad its not 36 anymore lol