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OSR does not say "Roll 2D6".
Servo skulls say "Roll 1D6 less" IE roll 1D6.

Servo skulls are specific about how many dice you roll, OSR is not.

I am always scatering the full 2D6. Except, due to servo skulls, I only rolled 1D6. So I will always scatter the full 1D6, becuase that is all I rolled.

Always scatters the full 2D6 talks about scattering even if you roll a hit, and not subtracting your BS. Servo skulls talk about how many D6 you role.

There is no conflict here.

I think rolling 2d6 and then reducing it by 1d6 is the best way to handle it.

Except there is no reason for that Cotton.
You dont subtract 1D6 from the final result.
You would in theory only roll 1 to start with.


However, to the person who asked where it said Specific > General:

Try playing the game going the other way.
99% of people dont know it unless they look at it with this in mind, but specific rules allways take main stage to general rules.


Now, the rules state that it allways scatters 2D6
Thats a pretty heavy statement.
SS generally states that scatter is reduced.

Always scatters the full 2D6 talks about scattering even if you roll a hit, and not subtracting your BS. Servo skulls talk about how many D6 you role.

You know this how?
Because you have taken that as RAI and your own version of it.
Does it state only taking out BS and the roll of a hit?
No, it makes a general purpose statement that it reduces scatters by 2D6.

The OSR on the other hand states it will allways scatter.
Allways meaning there is no chance of anything less than it.

You seem to have your own RAI stuck in your mind, rather than RAW.

Jatyu - ALWAYS SCATTER THE FULL 2D6 means ALWAYS

PLease stop repeatedly ignoring this point. You are REQUIRED to roll 2D6. Have you rolled 2D6? No? Then you have BROKEN A RULE

SS is less specific than OSR

stop referring to the specificity if you cannot find where is says in the rules Specific> general. It might be a general trend but that does not make it absolute.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jatyu wrote:OSR does not say "Roll 2D6".
Servo skulls say "Roll 1D6 less" IE roll 1D6.

Servo skulls are specific about how many dice you roll, OSR is not.

I am always scatering the full 2D6. Except, due to servo skulls, I only rolled 1D6. So I will always scatter the full 1D6, becuase that is all I rolled.

Always scatters the full 2D6 talks about scattering even if you roll a hit, and not subtracting your BS. Servo skulls talk about how many D6 you role.

There is no conflict here.

what he said particularly the bold part.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

OSR: this blast weapon always scatters the full amount, which is defined in the rulebook as 2D6

Except servo skulls reduce this to 1d6 just like other blast template weapons are scatters 2d6, which is reduced to 1d6 by the servo skulls

adding always before the scatters is referring to the shot always scattering even on a hit.

adding full is referring to not subtracting ballistics skill.

gendoikari87 wrote:stop referring to the specificity if you cannot find where is says in the rules Specific> general. It might be a general trend but that does not make it absolute

Wow, just... wow. We've explained why the game doesn't work without specific>general, and yet you persist? By your logic we don't have a permissive ruleset either, as that's not written anywhere.

here lets break it down.

Note that the orbital strikes always scatter the full 2d6" in the direction shown (if a hit is rolled, they scatter in the direction of the small arrow on the 'hit' symbol).

breaking this down from tbe beginning we have:

Note that the orbital strikes

Here it says to note, that means they are altering the way you normally fire an ordinance weapon. They are adding an addendum.

always scatter

Here it breaks down the first ammendment, that the strike doesn't hit, it always scatters. there is little other way to read this. as the parenthesis at the bottom clairifies what this means.

(if a hit is rolled, they scatter in the direction of the small arrow on the 'hit' symbol).

so you cannot read that part as meaning anything other than the strike even scatters on the hit symbol as this is clairified, presumably because it is meant for SS to reduce the scatter.

the full

it scatter the full distance shown on the scatter dice. You do not get to subtract your ballistics skill

2d6" in the direction shown

here it restates the condition for scattering, it says nothing about it not being modifyable.


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By your logic we don't have a permissive ruleset either

The rules actually state this IIRC

You recall incorrectly

Seriously. I assume you play that power weapons dont ignore armour saves?

Since you have no interest in arguing actual rules (as in, you disregard for NO reason they way the rules are written to work. Like redefining the multiplicative identity to something other than "1" and trying to carry on as normal) responding to you is, frankly, pointless.

You ALWAYS scatter the full 2D6. Unless you have a more specific rule, like Karamazov, ALWAYS measns ALWAYS

nosferatu1001 wrote:You recall incorrectly

Seriously. I assume you play that power weapons dont ignore armour saves?

Since you have no interest in arguing actual rules (as in, you disregard for NO reason they way the rules are written to work. Like redefining the multiplicative identity to something other than "1" and trying to carry on as normal) responding to you is, frankly, pointless.

You ALWAYS scatter the full 2D6. Unless you have a more specific rule, like Karamazov, ALWAYS measns ALWAYS

yes, always means you always scatter, period, that's the ONLY meaning you can assert to it as this part is clearly defined at the end of the entry. Nothing more.

gendoikari87 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:You recall incorrectly

Seriously. I assume you play that power weapons dont ignore armour saves?

Since you have no interest in arguing actual rules (as in, you disregard for NO reason they way the rules are written to work. Like redefining the multiplicative identity to something other than "1" and trying to carry on as normal) responding to you is, frankly, pointless.

You ALWAYS scatter the full 2D6. Unless you have a more specific rule, like Karamazov, ALWAYS measns ALWAYS

yes, always means you always scatter, period, that's the ONLY meaning you can assert to it as this part is clearly defined at the end of the entry. Nothing more.

"Note that orbital strikes always scatter the full 2D6" in the direction shown[...]"

It's the same sentence and it doesn't have any commas, disregarding parts of the sentence to suit your argument is just silly. Always scattering the full 2D6" means that *gasp* it always scatters the full 2D6", not the full D6", not the full 3D6", the full 2D6" and nothing else.

Gendolkari - are you reading a different codex, while entirely ignoring the rules quotes?

It tells you to always scatter the full 2D6"... so you always, and heres the bit you entirely ignore, scatter the FULL 2D6"

Your insistence on ignoring rules, despite them being posted repeatedly for you, and your frankly ludicrous suggestion the specific > general can be arbitrarily ignored because you feel like it, indicates that not only does your argument have absolutely no merit but you have no interest in discussing rules, and are in violation of the tenets of this forum

To summarise: provide rules quotes to back up your position, or concede.

Is scattering 1D6 following the rule of always scatter the full 2D6 ?

1D6 does not = 2D6

Scattering 1D6 would be in clear violation of a restrictive rule that says the scatter must always scatter the full 2D6

Scattering 2D6 would be a restrictive rule ignoring a permissive rule because of 2 things: Restrictive>Permissive, and a statement with always is always more applicable than a statement without always.

"Always scatters the full 2d6" assuming you are rolling 2d6, which the servo skull tells us to only roll 1d6 for a friendly blast. It still meets the requirement of always scattering, but now it is modified by the friendly blast template rule of the servo skull

Lolcanoe wrote:"Always scatters the full 2d6" assuming you are rolling 2d6, which the servo skull tells us to only roll 1d6 for a friendly blast. It still meets the requirement of always scattering, but now it is modified by the friendly blast template rule of the servo skull

Indeed the 2d6 in the OSR's rule is there for review purposes only, stating that you don't subtract ballistics skill.

Gendolkar - nope, thats you still making things up.

Any chance you could provide a rules quote to back this up? Anything?

nosferatu1001 wrote:Gendolkar - nope, thats you still making things up.

Any chance you could provide a rules quote to back this up? Anything?

about seven posts up at the bottom.

What, where you ignore the "always scatter the full 2D6" and pretend it only means "always scatter"?

No, I asked for a rules quote that backs up your assertion that it is only there "for review purposes"? Bearing in mind that you scatter even if you hit, youre wrong on at least 2 counts here...

I take it you are one of those whom take the falchions as granting a total of +2A?

gendoikari87 wrote:I take it you are one of those whom take the falchions as granting a total of +2A?

I take it you are one of those incapable of understanding the rules:

well at least your are being consistant.

Lolcanoe wrote:"Always scatters the full 2d6" assuming you are rolling 2d6, which the servo skull tells us to only roll 1d6 for a friendly blast. It still meets the requirement of always scattering, but now it is modified by the friendly blast template rule of the servo skull

Always scatters the full 2D6 assumes nothing because it is a statement of fact.

The fact is is always scatters the full 2D6.

This debate is degenerating into people looking for things to interpret by reading in between the lines, and once the debate degenerates into attempting to debate the definition of every word and what the hidden meaning is between the line it ends up being nothing more than a Clintonesque debate over the definition of the word is.

Always scatters the full 2D6=Always scatters the full 2D6 with no secret meaning intended to be read in between the lines.

hey if that'sthe way its ruled, so be it i'll take those 5 A terminators.

gendoikari87 wrote:I take it you are one of those whom take the falchions as granting a total of +2A?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:I take it you are one of those whom take the falchions as granting a total of +2A?

I take it you are one of those incapable of understanding the rules:

gendoikari87 wrote:well at least your are being consistant.

Erm, you do realise that AlmightyWalrus isnt me, right? There are a few clues that would indicate this.

And, if by "being consistent" you mean "following the rules" then, yes, I am being consistent. Shocking I know.

Still waiting on your quote. Found anything to support your position yet?

haven't read through the faqs yet to get a quote but I found one of yours that says you agree with me.

nosferatu1001 wrote:ph34r - I have read the codex. Oddly enough

they score "as if they were Troops" - so 1) they score and 2) act as troops to do so.

In the same way a RAS LS scores, because the codex says so, this rule is more specific than the BRB

so um.... what was that about not being able to split up phrases, seems like you did it there.

Um, no. Not quite. Notice how I addressed both parts, whereas you keep on pretending "the full 2D6" doesnt exist.

Still, try again.

Actually I addressed all of the parts. if you'd read.

Obviously I'd read them, as everyone here including me pointed out where you were going wrong. Repeatedly.

Still waiting on a rules quote to back up your assertion that "the full 2D6" is only there as a reminder about not subtracting BS. Been quite a few posts now. Anything yet?

I could use the same argument against yours.

At which point, I think we're done here.