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iproxtaco wrote:
Source. Give us the source of this complete bs. The Tau destroying an entire Necron Fleet with EMP torpedoes? Where in the name of Jesus M.f Christ did you find that?

Sorry for responding so late...I was trying to find that fluff and I didn't found it. I remember it being on Lexicanum, in Tau fleet sheet. Now I can't find it, but I know the script very well.

According to that, one part of the Tau fleet was on some of their outer colonies - paroling. When they notice several Necron ships closing in on them. As I remember, they use some kind of new EMP torpedoes - only developed recently ( probably the first year of 42'nd millennium ). The torpedoes stall the Necron ships, they where practically dead in space. And the Tau fleet then just attacked and destroy all of Necron ships.

It's not entirely impossible Tau have advance technology, or maybe this was some fan-boy fantasy. Or maybe it's leak story for the next Tau codex, I really don't know - except that I read it on Lexicanum.

Sounds like Fan-boy fantasy to me, but then I don't play BFG. I'd love to, but have only so much money and time

You'd think that Necrons would shield against EMP attacks, being robots, but EMP grenades work on Liths too, so who knows

Looking forward to the new Tau codex when it comes, even though i don't play tau any more, just to see how far they've advances the Tau tech-base to allow for new toys

Ascalam wrote:Maybe, Maybe not.
The Imperium has worked with the Eldar before, but is a paranoid bunch of xenocidal loonies. The alliance would break down sooner or later regardless of the threat. Otherwise you'd always see eldar and Imperial forces fighting together vs Chaos The imperium tends to also have the 'we're the Imperium, how could we lose?' attitude that ,despite several hundred ass-kickings, tends to lead them to wiping out potential allies instead of recruiting them.
Orks can be conned/lured into a good fight, but are as apt to attacking the people who hired them after the Crons phase out in any given fight just to keep the fight going. Orks don't hate Necrons. They don't hate anyone. They don't consider them a good fight though because they keep wimpin' out and vanishin' before da fights done :(
Necron ships can also travel far faster than ork waagh fleets, and actually care about the direction they travel in
The tau are not exactly known for having much sense when it comes to their allies. All it would take would be one rabidly imperial Inquisitor saying the wrong thing and that one's a gonner.
The Nids actively avoid Necron Tombworlds. There's no profit in attacking them (no biomass to replace losses) and the Hive Mind doesn't seem to be the emotional type, just hungry in an implacable way It's not established that Nids even feel emotion when hooked up to the hivemind.
I'm not saying it couldn't work, just that it's highly unlikely to last long enough to make a difference.

Wow well if everything goes sooo bad then yes we are doomed, yes. You are so negative. The alliance would last (it wouldn't last after the great war against the Necrons. I agree but still) Even if the Imperium would be rude and be all against the Eldar. The Eldar are smart and know when its time to get emotional and not to. Believe me after the Necs would massacre some of the worlds that belong to the Imeprium and Tau.......I think they will be fighting for their lives to defeat them. Even if you are close minded and you hate xenos or humans. You must understand that you are about to get by the dead!
Chaos isn’t also that stupid even though its evil. It would not have united of course with them but most of the servants of Chaos will stay away from the allies and wipe out the necs from the other side.
I already explained why the Tyranids would have also attacked the necs......Though you didnt see me reason. Beacuse the Necs are wipeing out the main source of food for the tyranids. The Tyranids must fight them to put them back to sleep so they will be able to feast on the living themselves.
Orks....I agree technology isn’t great and are not smart but Eldar will fined a way how to send them at the Necrons.....Some how. I understand this alliance or diplomatic deals wouldn’t last long but they will certainly last until the Necs will not be crippled or pushed back.

1/ give them a paradox something like 'if the deceiver always deceives, how can you be sure he exists as he would be deceiving you if he said he existed'

2/ EMP!!!!!!!!!!

bob the heretic wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Maybe, Maybe not.
The Imperium has worked with the Eldar before, but is a paranoid bunch of xenocidal loonies. The alliance would break down sooner or later regardless of the threat. Otherwise you'd always see eldar and Imperial forces fighting together vs Chaos The imperium tends to also have the 'we're the Imperium, how could we lose?' attitude that ,despite several hundred ass-kickings, tends to lead them to wiping out potential allies instead of recruiting them.
Orks can be conned/lured into a good fight, but are as apt to attacking the people who hired them after the Crons phase out in any given fight just to keep the fight going. Orks don't hate Necrons. They don't hate anyone. They don't consider them a good fight though because they keep wimpin' out and vanishin' before da fights done :(
Necron ships can also travel far faster than ork waagh fleets, and actually care about the direction they travel in
The tau are not exactly known for having much sense when it comes to their allies. All it would take would be one rabidly imperial Inquisitor saying the wrong thing and that one's a gonner.
The Nids actively avoid Necron Tombworlds. There's no profit in attacking them (no biomass to replace losses) and the Hive Mind doesn't seem to be the emotional type, just hungry in an implacable way It's not established that Nids even feel emotion when hooked up to the hivemind.
I'm not saying it couldn't work, just that it's highly unlikely to last long enough to make a difference.

Wow well if everything goes sooo bad then yes we are doomed, yes. You are so negative. The alliance would last (it wouldn't last after the great war against the Necrons. I agree but still) Even if the Imperium would be rude and be all against the Eldar. The Eldar are smart and know when its time to get emotional and not to. Believe me after the Necs would massacre some of the worlds that belong to the Imeprium and Tau.......I think they will be fighting for their lives to defeat them. Even if you are close minded and you hate xenos or humans. You must understand that you are about to get by the dead!
Chaos isn’t also that stupid even though its evil. It would not have united of course with them but most of the servants of Chaos will stay away from the allies and wipe out the necs from the other side.
I already explained why the Tyranids would have also attacked the necs......Though you didnt see me reason. Beacuse the Necs are wipeing out the main source of food for the tyranids. The Tyranids must fight them to put them back to sleep so they will be able to feast on the living themselves.
Orks....I agree technology isn’t great and are not smart but Eldar will fined a way how to send them at the Necrons.....Some how. I understand this alliance or diplomatic deals wouldn’t last long but they will certainly last until the Necs will not be crippled or pushed back.

Not negative, realistic

The imperium can't even work with all it's own elements and takes centuries to millenia to make decisions even on urgent matters. What on eath makes you think they could manage a masterpiece of diplomacy like this? Theyhave been at war with, and commited horrible acts on, every race in the 'alliance' and havn't changed their attitude any since.

The imperium has a proven habit of wiping races out unless they prove strong enough to resist. The other races are unlikely to trust the IOM an inch due to this, as it would certainly capitalize on an ally's weakness to remove it after the threat had passed.

The Tau might be naive enough to ally with the IOM on this, and given how these alliances tend to end they'd probably get wiped by the IOM as soon as the war was done.

The Eldar don't really need the alliance. They can move around, and are fairly adept at hiding. Even if they did ally with the IOM they would expect to be in command of the alliance, which the IOM would never allow. The IOM would want to be in command of the Alliance entirely, and would not allow joint command out of paranioa and pride.

The Orks would find killing the humans and Eldar a much more satisfying fight with better loot. Even of you did recruit them somehow they would fall to infighting as they always do, regardless of the greater plan.

I did dee your reason on the tyranids. I just don't think it valid. There have been documented proofs of hive fleets just going around Necron space. Attacking the necrons loses them biomass with no return, as even their own dead bodies are gauss-stripped to nothing. The nids would be far more likely to attack the gathering Alliance areas, and then move on when they were wiped out. The Nids don't mind travelling intergalactically when they've eaten a galaxy down, but cant afford the massive loss of unretrievable biomass that taking on the necrons exculsively would represent. It would make the hive fleets dangerously vulnerable if they survived against the huge powerful alliance of races that you propose would form. If the hivemind is smart enough to recognise the Necrons as a threat to the biomass it would also recognise that if it got to the tasty smorgasbord first they would be well stocked with biomass and could then move on, leaving the necrons to the dead worlds of the galaxy.

I think that an alliance hammer between IOM,Tau, Eldar and Orks, with the Nids as the anvil is highly implausable. This isn't Babylon 5 after all

I think that an alliance hammer between IOM,Tau, Eldar and Orks, with the Nids as the anvil is highly implausable. This isn't Babylon 5 after all

I understand what you mean but I think the Eldar would know how to adept to the ways of the humans for a year or two just to prevent the rise of their old foes.
About the orks I didnt really say of an alliance, I ment eldar trickery. Like if a Farseer goes ino one of the warbosses head and tells him about the fun fights he will have with the Necs. I still think that if the alliance wouldnt have worked in the beginning it would begin to improve in the end when Necs will begin to destroy everything.

Have they yet? Not really.

They have allied with the IOM before, usually against chaos (especially slannesh) but always on their own terms.

One short story in Epic, for example, had an eldar force show up and engage a chaos titan group, which incidentally saved the heavily outnumbered IOM titans that were fighting them and losing.

When asked why they helped the humans out they replied that they hadn't helped them. They had attacked the same enemy, but that didn't make them in any way allies.

They would more likely demand that the Imperium adapt to their ways and leadership, which they consider far superior. The Slaaneshi are far more the dire foes of the eldar than the necrons, and they've not allied in this fashion to wipe Slaanesh out.

You could trick the orks into attacking the Necrons easily enough. Getting them to stay focused on that instead of killing each other, or anyone else, is far harder

Another thought. The necrons aren't stupid either. They could pretend to sleep again so that the alliance would fall apart, or the Deciever could infiltrate it and break it from within Who knows

I personally think it thoroughly unlikely that the alliance would work, but feel free to think otherwise

As i said on the alliance front :

Maybe, maybe not.

darkcloud92 wrote:
But does anyone know if they can fly through space? I dont think I have ever read about them doing space travel

Necron ships are by far the most powerful in the entire galaxy. They could RAPE Blackstone fortresses. Have you heard of the necron world-ship? Good, your mind has not yet been blown to pieces.

Also, read the novel Hell-forged.

Plus, BFG nuff said.

Sure. Attack their bases of operations and shatter their industrial capacity (in this case, their ability to repair) and they can be beaten like any other.

It's just really fething hard to do in their case.

Ascalam i think you are exagerating the political machinations in the IoM.
There is infighting but it only happens when the fighting has ended or there is a period of relative peace.
If the IoM had to work with the Eldar they would, they wouldn't like it but they would.
And it doesn't take canturies to milenia to decide on things.
It might take a decade or so if the situation took a while to get back to the High Lords but certainly not centuries.

On the topic of the alliance, a battle-length alliance would be plausible (except Nids), but a campaign-length alliance? No, not at all. The Tau would want humans to follow the greater good, Humans would want Eldar to worship the God-Emperor, and the Eldar would try to convince the Tau to switch path multiple times during their lives which would end disastrously because of the castes.

Plus, all you really need to do to defeat Necrons is destroy their monoliths and/or BoO (Base of Operations), then they can't regenerate/repair, and become wholly out-classed by most other races.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

purplefood wrote:Ascalam i think you are exagerating the political machinations in the IoM.
There is infighting but it only happens when the fighting has ended or there is a period of relative peace.
If the IoM had to work with the Eldar they would, they wouldn't like it but they would.
And it doesn't take canturies to milenia to decide on things.
It might take a decade or so if the situation took a while to get back to the High Lords but certainly not centuries.

No, centuries is probably correct.

So when Rynns World (The homeworld of the Crimson Fists) was invaded by Orks and the Crimson Fists sent out a message for help it took them centuries to respond?
It didn't by the way, that was a rhetorical question.
It took them a few months and most of that time was spent gathering forces rather than actually deciding to do something.

Ascalam wrote:Sounds like Fan-boy fantasy to me, but then I don't play BFG. I'd love to, but have only so much money and time

You'd think that Necrons would shield against EMP attacks, being robots, but EMP grenades work on Liths too, so who knows

Looking forward to the new Tau codex when it comes, even though i don't play tau any more, just to see how far they've advances the Tau tech-base to allow for new toys

The tech-base of the Tau will undoubtedly be as advanced the Necrons in the next dex. Also, their warp travel will probably be on-par with the IoM...

The IOM is never in a position of relative peace. They are eternally at war with someone, they just change the warzones around now and again.

They also would never allow Eldar leadership for an entire genocidal war that might take centuries, and the eldar would feel much the same.

Pg 102 main rulebook-
'pleas for help of clarification may not be acted on for centuries' - Yes they do.

Orders issued by the high lords tend to filter down as an elaborate version of chinese whispers. The orders received at the other end of the chain bear little relation to the original orders.

'indeed, it is not uncommon for fleets and armies to arrive at a war zone to discover that the conflict they were dispatched to wage has long since been concluded'

Given that the adeptus terra is made up of an unknown number of departments that centralized rule or accurate census are impossible i don't see decisions being made terribly quickly. That's before the Inquisition sticks its oar in.

Also to form this alliance they would have to suddenly stop fighting and withdraw in all active warzones that didn't involve the nids or Crons and say sorry, which is heresy

I imagine that this woudn't be popular with some fighting forces, such as certain Astartes chapters or guard regiments that would likely request clarification or simply refuse. These clarifications would have to then be recieved, filter through the beauracracy and then be sent out again. This could take addition years to centuries.

It's just not practical, with the missions of regiments out there, all the chapters and the other imperial forces.

purplefood wrote:So when Rynns World (The homeworld of the Crimson Fists) was invaded by Orks and the Crimson Fists sent out a message for help it took them centuries to respond?
It didn't by the way, that was a rhetorical question.
It took them a few months and most of that time was spent gathering forces rather than actually deciding to do something.

That was just rallying reinforcements, this would have to be debated by the highest authority and would have to go through the administration of the IoM. Not a speedy process by any stretch of the imagination.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ascalam wrote:The IOM is never in a position of relative peace. They are eternally at war with someone, they just change the warzones around now and again.

They also would never allow Eldar leadership for an entire genocidal war that might take centuries, and the eldar would feel much the same.

Pg 102 main rulebook-
'pleas for help of clarification may not be acted on for centuries' - Yes they do.

Orders issued by the high lords tend to filter down as an elaborate version of chinese whispers. The orders received at the other end of the chain bear little relation to the original orders.

'indeed, it is not uncommon for fleets and armies to arrive at a war zone to discover that the conflict they were dispatched to wage has long since been concluded'

Given that the adeptus terra is made up of an unknown number of departments that centralized rule or accurate census are impossible i don't see decisions being made terribly quickly. That's before the Inquisition sticks its oar in.

Also to form this alliance they would have to suddenly stop fighting and withdraw in all active warzones that didn't involve the nids or Crons and say sorry, which is heresy

I imagine that this woudn't be popular with some fighting forces, such as certain Astartes chapters or guard regiments that would likely request clarification or simply refuse. These clarifications would have to then be recieved, filter through the beauracracy and then be sent out again. This could take addition years to centuries.

It's just not practical, with the missions of regiments out there, all the chapters and the other imperial forces.

QFT

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:So when Rynns World (The homeworld of the Crimson Fists) was invaded by Orks and the Crimson Fists sent out a message for help it took them centuries to respond?
It didn't by the way, that was a rhetorical question.
It took them a few months and most of that time was spent gathering forces rather than actually deciding to do something.

That was just rallying reinforcements, this would have to be debated by the highest authority and would have to go through the administration of the IoM. Not a speedy process by any stretch of the imagination.

Not likely.
It would have been up to the sector governor and after him whoever was in charge of the segmentum.
It also should have been a relatively easy descision the Waagh had been halted at Rynns World but they couldn't defeat it entirely that would have been the best time to strike.

To use your own example of rynn's world.

If the Crimson Fists were ordered to stop fighting the orks, immediately,would they do it?

Ascalam wrote:To use your own example of rynn's world.

If the Crimson Fists were ordered to stop fighting the orks, immediately,would they do it?

No. But then again the Crimson Fists are an independent faction in the Imperium.
Also i doubt any IG regiment or SoB covenant would simply allow the Orks to slaughter them, if they were ordered to retreat maybe.
The SM independence is more of a technicality. They need the IoM and the IoM kinda needs them. Much like the relationship within all the organisations of the Imperium.

My point stands then, as you'd need to stop all the astartes from beating on the aliens you were trying to ally with

If the imperium can't unite themselves they have no hope of a multi-race long term alliance. If they have independent factions that can ignore the orders of Holy Terra at will they will never unite.

Yes, especially when they ally with the Space Marines.... *duck*

No one knows the extent of the Necron Tomb World problem and they have technology far superior to most of the other races. Whose to say what will happen once they all 'wake up'.

We'll never know of course as there is no future history post- 41k

Ascalam wrote:My point stands then, as you'd need to stop all the astartes from beating on the aliens you were trying to ally with

If the imperium can't unite themselves they have no hope of a multi-race long term alliance. If they have independent factions that can ignore the orders of Holy Terra at will they will never unite.

They can't though. I mean they can technically but there are a great many fall backs and restraints on what many factions can or cannot do.
The Imperium could manage it, especially since an alliance such as this probably wouldn't be common knowledge. It would be for the High Lords maybe the Warmaster in charge of taking out the Necrons and a few select Inquisitor Lords.
At any rate it's moot point. When the Necrons wake up entirely it'll likely be the end of the galaxy all over again except maybe this time they'll die...

Supposedly their technology is far in advance of all the other races, fluffwise, but like eveything else that's subject to change without reason

I really think that the plotline could use more advancing and less retconning

They do have advanced tech.
Way more advanced.
Their method of space travel is incredibly fast.

What if you could lure/send them to the warp?

There are references of attacks being made at regular intervals, or maybe give them a juicy target near a warp rift.

They'd never fall for it...
Though if you were desperate enough you could plunge an entire system into the warp to kill a Necron fleet.
Or, you could detonate a warp core in the middle of their fleet... it sounds like a Star Trek plan but the Dominus Astra did for an entire Tyranid fleet that way so for Necrons and their weakness to the warp it'll do for them.

But you have eldar tech capable of that, it could be a solution, albeit a tricky one. I don't believe wbb coverage is avaiable in the warp.

I'm sure Eldar weapons like the D-cannon and Wraith cannon (ie weapons that send the target into the wrap) will "kill" a necron for good,the problem is not many races have such weapons and squads of Wraith guard would take along time blasting every last nercon in the galaxy.

They aren't orks

They are well aware that the warp is antithesis to the Ctan, and the Ctan are pretty intelligent, so you'd need one hell of a trick

Who knows The regular necrons might well function just fine in the warp. As far as i know it's never been tested.

They have no psychic signiature, so they wouldn't put out a beacon in the warp to locate them with.

They are made from metal, rather than flesh, and are self repairing. The warp will eventually warp metal, but with their self repair mechanisms the warping might be countered, or it might not.

Interesting idea

Nah the warp would dissolve them like they were placed in acid.
It's that kind of opposite as opposed to 'they just don't like it all that much'

Assuming that they are immune to it and able to repair, they still would be constantly attacked by deamons, who by their very nature, are immortal.