Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Well, It doesn't affect me at all I buy stuff from fellow dakka members, and used stuff, and cheap ebay stuff.

But If I actually payed full price, it would be expensive.

Samus, you don't seem to understand. It will *still* affect you.

"Free" Shrike models aside ( ), all your models will still cost you more.

Someone who pays $40 for a model and sells it for half off is going to charge you less than the guy who bought it for $50 and resells it at half off.

Will it still be far less expensive than retail? Sure. If you think it won't affect you at all, though, you're only fooling yourself.


Eric

I've stopped playing and buying GW stuff. More into Battletech now and I've started a D&D group and been buying old books for that, and I've been playing lots of Guild Wars

Well.... I was reading Dakka Dakka as I do daily instead of being productive. I was so mad at the embargo actually shut my browser down and started to work. My boss saw me typing away and producing quality material. He pulled me into the office and promoted me right there and gave me the afternoon off.

So... I thought I can afford more GW. I walk into a GW and notice the price has gone up again now I'm super upset and the stuff is made of holey resin. Now I really can't afford the hobby. I was sooo mad I decided to keep my money in my pocket and instead went to the local Walmart. I bought deodorant, shampoo, Ax body spray and a shirt that wasn't a black T with the imperial aquila. (crazy.. I know).

Next thing I find myself in the shower and caring about my personal hygiene. I head out the door and notice this thing w/ two legs and bumpy things on the chest piece. Now I've seen Sisters of Battle before and decide...whoa.... that is a girl. I walk by her and make sure she gets a big wiff of my body spray..... well... I'm sure you've seen the commercials.

So... Thanks GW... I got a promotion, got clean and got the girl. Woot... never coulda done it without you.

MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:Wow, I guess I'm the exception to the negativity then!

The latest changes to GW:
1) More Codexes released per year than ever before
2) Introduction of FAQs
3) Consistant release of some of the best models seen yet
4) More engagement with the community, now with things like Facebook
5) Replacement of Metal for Resin
6) Explosion of community groups - podcasts, professional blogs, etc.

I'm now focusing more on the hobby more than ever, and haven't played a game of Malifaux in months... (though its still an awesome game)

My takes on your thoughts:

1) More codices -some FAR too overpowered- at higher prices.
2) FAQ's have been around a long time. They just all recently got a LONG OVERDUE 5e update, finally.
3) Arguable at best.
4) ...but they're not really saying anything of value to us
5) The new resin minis are full of crappy results.
6) GW should not get the credit for this. It is not their doing.

Eric

Not only that but GW used to communicate far more with their customers back when WD actually had a purpose; to inform and captivate readers. Also, I would suggest the days of Chapter Approved and the like were much better than the half-assed approach to FAQs we get nowadays.

Jgemrich that was an awesome post. +1 Internets to you, sir.

The latest GW clusterfail hasn't affected me that much. I was already getting frustrated with GW before this all went down. Malifaux pulled me in a while ago. If anything, some good came of this. The nerd rage on dakka led me to Infinity, which I'll be spending my money on instead of 40k. If I want to play fantasy, I'll buy from Mantic.

On a semi-related note, for those of us who want to sell off some of our GW models to reinvest in the hobby, where are some good choices? EBay is obviously a choice, but what else is out there?

The changes at GW have been a net plus for me.

They have caused me to look at Malifaux, Dust Tactics, Firestorm Armada, Dystopian Wars and even have me mulling over Flames of War.

They have also benefited me greatly monetarily. Since the price hikes my second hand stuff sells for more than ever on Ebay.

What I have chosen to not sell of my GW stuff has mainly been around Apocalypse games. Now that's some fun right there, and my centerpiece is usually a 2500 point Great Gargant that is scratch built from foam and sheet plastic. It's also an excuse to bust out that expensive Forgeworld stuff some of the local crew accumulate. So I'm having more fun with the GW stuff I do have.

Of course, my gain will not be GW's. I'll not be buying much in the way of models or rules sets from them any more.

Recently? Nothing, because I wrote them off as a company I wouldn't support a decade ago.

The prices don't really concern me, I just don't like their business practices and mentality that they are the only miniature game in the universe.

I buy second-hand only for precisely those reasons.

jgemrich wrote:Well.... I was reading Dakka Dakka as I do daily instead of being productive. I was so mad at the embargo actually shut my browser down and started to work. My boss saw me typing away and producing quality material. He pulled me into the office and promoted me right there and gave me the afternoon off.

So... I thought I can afford more GW. I walk into a GW and notice the price has gone up again now I'm super upset and the stuff is made of holey resin. Now I really can't afford the hobby. I was sooo mad I decided to keep my money in my pocket and instead went to the local Walmart. I bought deodorant, shampoo, Ax body spray and a shirt that wasn't a black T with the imperial aquila. (crazy.. I know).

Next thing I find myself in the shower and caring about my personal hygiene. I head out the door and notice this thing w/ two legs and bumpy things on the chest piece. Now I've seen Sisters of Battle before and decide...whoa.... that is a girl. I walk by her and make sure she gets a big wiff of my body spray..... well... I'm sure you've seen the commercials.

So... Thanks GW... I got a promotion, got clean and got the girl. Woot... never coulda done it without you.

Thanks for that, genuinely made me laugh

Guildsman wrote:On a semi-related note, for those of us who want to sell off some of our GW models to reinvest in the hobby, where are some good choices? EBay is obviously a choice, but what else is out there?

Dakka swap shop forum or Bartertown.

Eric

I'll be buying all my models from Ebay, scrounging enough spare bitz to make entire kits (have already made 20 Guardsmen for under $10, and a Valkyrie for under $40).

The only way GW has affected the hobby for me is by actually making it BETTER.

It's sort of forced me to play FoW at Maelstrom and by doing so have met some great guys and made new friends and enjoying a new rule set and game.

I still play 40k with two close friends and we're still enjoying it loads.

I'll end up buying MORE!

Oh, GW is only partly to blame, DAKKA DAKKA members are mainly to blame for me spending more!

Why? Oh I won't be buying a great deal off GW, at least not until the Necrons get released. But with all the price rise talk people have been putting up links to other companies. So now I've seen a load of other minis that I want to buy. Thanks for spending my money Dakka

Guildsman wrote:On a semi-related note, for those of us who want to sell off some of our GW models to reinvest in the hobby, where are some good choices? EBay is obviously a choice, but what else is out there?

car boots, made £100 in 30 minutes on the last one I did

MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:1) More Codexes released per year than ever before

how is that a good thing when most are written by matt ward?

MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:2) Introduction of FAQs

yeah, each as long as the codex they are released for answering questions nobody asked and answering nothing nobody needs

MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:3) Consistant release of some of the best models seen yet

where?

MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:4) More engagement with the community, now with things like Facebook

yeah, more plugging about how awesome they are

MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:5) Replacement of Metal for Resin

and thats good how?

and blogs done by the average joe have nothing to do with GW, even if it is there products

Not really any major change for me. I don't regularly purchase or game GW, most of my hobby time is either single models or dioramas / scenery. I'm more of a historical gamer since I left school 20ish years ago, and even that is a irregular event now.

My last GW direct purchase was the re-issue of Space Hulk and before that was AoBR. I tend to scour eBay and other sources for cheaper minis and bitz, which I will continue to do to build a custom marine force that I've been working on. I have also recently bought from other smaller manufacturers (Black Scorpion, Heresy, Hasslefree, etc.) when I go to games shows or via the internet, as I don't have a flgs.

Having said all that, I'm not in GWs demographic target audience anyway so they probably don't care what I do...

Demographics: Games Workshop targets a highly desirable demographic; educated, affluent, and well-behaved 14- to 24-year-old males and their families.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1230058_realestatebooklet.pdf

From the document Ruglud linked to:

There is no other retailer that competes directly with Games Workshop. However, as a
distributor, we are mindful of not encroaching upon our third party retailers.

Emphasis mine. Hyuk hyuk hyuk.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, how do you not fit Ruglud? I'm poor, too old, and not particularly well-behaved myself. I'd best stop playing GW games I guess. Oh well.

htj wrote:From the document Ruglud linked to:

There is no other retailer that competes directly with Games Workshop. However, as a
distributor, we are mindful of not encroaching upon our third party retailers.

Emphasis mine. Hyuk hyuk hyuk.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, how do you not fit Ruglud? I'm poor, too old, and not particularly well-behaved myself. I'd best stop playing GW games I guess. Oh well.

Well, I'm (well) over 24 and have no other male relatives in my direct family within that range (my son is 7...). I don't have a university degree or equivalent, I only just got relatively average grades in GCSE and A level. I'm reasonably well off, but no where near the super rich level required for regular GW purchases, hopefully I'm well behaved though, so one tick in the box?

I've read a lot of the GW retail documents as I was considering becoming an independant retailer, but it's all give with one hand and take with the other so, I backed away, glad I did given the policy changes recently...

I wouldn't worry about the degree aspect. Most 14 year old boys don't have degrees either.

It's quite interesting that GW have put 24 as their age demographic cap. I wonder what kind of market research went into that? Certainly, they never asked me.

Blood Angels army that I was going to buy+build went out the window. Tomb-king preorders cancelled. Last two paint orders have been Vallejo. I'm still going to flush out my ork army but the only thing I'd even consider in finecast is the Mek+SAG and I wouldn't order that within the next 6-8months seeing the slip shod QA recently.

I'm sure the people at Crocodile Games and Avatars of War are happy though. I also just saw some stuff from Gorgon Studios that I must have.

jgemrich wrote:Well.... I was reading Dakka Dakka as I do daily instead of being productive. I was so mad at the embargo actually shut my browser down and started to work. My boss saw me typing away and producing quality material. He pulled me into the office and promoted me right there and gave me the afternoon off.

So... I thought I can afford more GW. I walk into a GW and notice the price has gone up again now I'm super upset and the stuff is made of holey resin. Now I really can't afford the hobby. I was sooo mad I decided to keep my money in my pocket and instead went to the local Walmart. I bought deodorant, shampoo, Ax body spray and a shirt that wasn't a black T with the imperial aquila. (crazy.. I know).

Next thing I find myself in the shower and caring about my personal hygiene. I head out the door and notice this thing w/ two legs and bumpy things on the chest piece. Now I've seen Sisters of Battle before and decide...whoa.... that is a girl. I walk by her and make sure she gets a big wiff of my body spray..... well... I'm sure you've seen the commercials.

So... Thanks GW... I got a promotion, got clean and got the girl. Woot... never coulda done it without you.

Did you ever find out what the bumpy things were for?

Grot 6 wrote:

jgemrich wrote:Well.... I was reading Dakka Dakka as I do daily instead of being productive. I was so mad at the embargo actually shut my browser down and started to work. My boss saw me typing away and producing quality material. He pulled me into the office and promoted me right there and gave me the afternoon off.

So... I thought I can afford more GW. I walk into a GW and notice the price has gone up again now I'm super upset and the stuff is made of holey resin. Now I really can't afford the hobby. I was sooo mad I decided to keep my money in my pocket and instead went to the local Walmart. I bought deodorant, shampoo, Ax body spray and a shirt that wasn't a black T with the imperial aquila. (crazy.. I know).

Next thing I find myself in the shower and caring about my personal hygiene. I head out the door and notice this thing w/ two legs and bumpy things on the chest piece. Now I've seen Sisters of Battle before and decide...whoa.... that is a girl. I walk by her and make sure she gets a big wiff of my body spray..... well... I'm sure you've seen the commercials.

So... Thanks GW... I got a promotion, got clean and got the girl. Woot... never coulda done it without you.

Did you ever find out what the bumpy things were for?

Hopefully not, for his sake. Babies are expensive and they smell. Let's hope he found other uses for them.

Well, i just finished building 1,500 points worth of SM. My wife was in the process of putting together a list of 1,500 points of DE to purchase. With the price increases, that stopped both of us in our tracks. I no longer wish to build up my army anymore. She gave up as she saw the price for everything she wanted to put together. With both of us quite a bit disappointed, she researched some other games and asked for us to try out Privateer Press and the Hordes campaign. For a minimal investment we got some nifty models(Battleboxes) and tried out a completely different game we both enjoyed.

So, I let the wallet speak for my disappointment with GW and spent $300 on building two 25pt Hordes armies. No regrets.

And not to sound like a GW hater, I still love reading their books and fluff.

Ruglud wrote:

Demographics: Games Workshop targets a highly desirable demographic; educated, affluent, and well-behaved 14- to 24-year-old males and their families.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1230058_realestatebooklet.pdf

Hmm, well, I have a doctorate-level degree and I suppose am affluent enough (if I ignore all the student loans LALALALALA), but I'm beyond the age range and am filled with seething hatred towards all living things. So half for, and half against. Do I qualify?

Well I haven't bought anything from GW in about 5 years.

I loved the DE and played them very effectively, but since 3rd Ed, I'd been eagerly awaiting an update which never came. After watching all other armies advance so ridiculously far beyond mine, I vowed not to give GW anymore of my money, or even support the hobby, until DE get an update... After not playing for years, the new DE FINALLY hit. But as amazing as they are, I'm just not into the hobby anymore. My interest had eventually expired.

After seeing the Talos and such, I was briefly inspired to begin collecting and painting again, ready to drop thousands of dollars on a large new DE army, until the prices went up. I interpret that as GW telling me they don't want me buying their stuff or playing their game. So I shrug and proceed as I have been...

I've been buying from discounters for the longest time and that won't change. It may in the future should GW figure out a way to drive the discounters away.

Straws that this camel still carries:

Price increases happen all the time. Since I purchase from eBay/discounters the damage is somewhat mitigated. I also don't purchase the crazy-expensive stuff like the Vampire Counts models. I'm also consolidating which armies I actually build and play and dumping the rest. This is more of a need to clean up my apartment than anything else.

I don't buy GW's hobby tools, glue, greenstuff, etc. when there are so many other outlets that sell the exact same stuff for pennies on GW's dollar. The paints I buy though but I've got a lot of Testors, too.

Finecast. I have always loathed metal models. They're difficult to convert and heavy, especially in bulk, to carry around. The switch to resin is actually a plus for me since I've worked with Forge World stuff for the longest time, too. I just don't have the hate for this that others do. Then again, I returned a bit of unopened metal that I wound up not wanting for a gift card balance which I then used to acquire my Finecast so I've kitted out my Skaven and Dark Eldar and even got a Hive Tyrant while spending only $40.00. Selling off my old stuff to get new is likely the way I'll be going now so the impact on my bank account won't be as great.

Regional sales restrictions. These have me concerned. I'm not affected by the current furor but do sympathise and see this as a possible concern for the future. GW's marketing decisions have always perplexed me.

So, unless and until the discounters are driven away, I'll probably still play 40k and Fantasy. I'll investigate another company's stuff should they produce plastic/resin models that are really cool looking but there'd need to be a local comunity of players, too, or it's "no deal".

As a hobby, GW provides large (Apocalypse) and small (FOC) scale options to play... you can collect an army or indulge in many different armies... and you can pick and choose your depth of involvement in the 'game'

As a cost, it is not a luxury item, yet... it is still cheaper than drinking in pubs every other night or cheaper than smoking a pack a day... or worse, both.

I do not balk at the price increases, i'm fethin miffed of course, but it or the next few will not curb my appitite for the game. I am not 'lucky' enough to be able to afford to keep playing, I can afford to play because I prioritise my disposable income.

I am very miffed though at the idiotic business plans and decisions that GW have subjected the veterans and loyal followers of the game. I have been involved since 1985 and have spent over AU25,000 in puchases and I do not intend to stop yet.

However, I will never, never pay GW Australian prices again. I have relatives in England and I will utilise their advantages and still save 50% off GWAU prices.

I hope GWAU goes bankrupt as a division, I hope they pull their stores out of Australia... this is what Wells and co must be aiming for after all.

The issue with GW is not the prices... it's their treatment of their resellers, their loyal veterans, and the hobby in general.

Prices always move up and down... but loyalty is earned

I started playing the GW game as an adult and I spent thousands of dollars because I supported GW as an entity that supported me... the decline started for me when they took my beloved 'Epic' out of their stores... and I am still loyal... for now

Mik

How its affected the hobby for me?


hmmm the positive of it is it prompted me to look at other game systems.
Like many others I decided to give warmachine a go and Ive found it really enjoyable.

Negative wise well...I promised myself last year if the prices went up one more time by a silly level I would stop buying new GW products, viola as expected it happened so I have done this.
I just dislike how the company behaves. like the models, Love the universe, hate the company.

soo long story short its just prompted me to branch into other game systems, while I will still play 40k/fantasy with what I have!

NeoMaul wrote:
I previously thought that 40k was the only game worth playing

I wish more people would realize the same thing. Its funny how when you play other games you begin to realize how bad the current 40k rules really are. There are many good games out there. Quite a few of the very low budget "generic" games are great. The companies that make/made them simply never had the funds to go big time like GW.

GW still makes great minis, but so do several other companies. The Infinity minis are really good, as are the Malifaux, though I must admit I dont care for the gothic horror genre or aesthetic, still well done minis.

40k is an incredibly fun and involved game that has a great worldwide community of people. I think that is what most people enjoy the most about gaming and 40k...the aspect of community that comes with the game and the fact that almost everywhere you go you can find at least 3 or 4 people (if not MORE) who play the game or at least have an army in their closet.

What is awful is seeing the company do things that make the community question why they are involved in the game at all. They aren't going to refund the $1000s of dollars many people have spent of their product yet they are willing to make continuation of that spending unbearable. But hey, I guess people still buy Nike products regardless of the conditions of production of their products. As far as we know, GW still has some morals on how their product is produced, they just don't care about how the decisions they make effect the end consumer.

We'll see what happens in the next few months...