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Plus, these are marines in power armor.

The weapons won't be too heavy.

Some lend themselves to 'on the shoulder' (Lascannon, Plasma Cannon, some do look better held with two hands (especially the Heavy bolter!).

Sidstyler wrote:

You don't need our permission to feel good about favoring style over rules substance.

I think it's less about seeking permission and more about reinforcing his own views that "style > substance" is the "right" way to play the game.

Maybe I should stop playing TWC heavy SW lists and Elite guard vet lists with melta and 'dettas and hydras etc.

Is there a right way to play the game? ( I mean, you use the rules that you are given don't you?).

That's me done for dragging this thread OT.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:Plus, these are marines in power armor.

The weapons won't be too heavy.

Some lend themselves to 'on the shoulder' (Lascannon, Plasma Cannon, some do look better held with two hands (especially the Heavy bolter!).

FW are def missing a trick with Pre Heresy.

The old metal Chaos Havocs could be a starting point. A two handed Las cannon fired from the hip would look cool, if nothing else.

Dark Eldar revised ravager with a crappy gun.

We get a bigger haywire blaster - something no one uses anyway.

Marines get a 36" moving invulnerable save carrying, terminator-toting assault vehicle that rams things to death and has melta cannons.

HRM.....

The reaper would be totally worth it's points if the beam were Heavy 3 instead instead of Heavy 1 and causing D3 Haywire results. I hope that's a change they make for the final version of the rules.

I like the rules as they are. It's not a super-weapon, but a rather dependable way to mess about with your opponents vehicles.

I'd seriously take D3 chances at interferences than 3 attempts at armour penetration.

Mr Mystery wrote:I like the rules as they are. It's not a super-weapon, but a rather dependable way to mess about with your opponents vehicles.

I'd seriously take D3 chances at interferences than 3 attempts at armour penetration.

Actually, with Heavy 3 it would be 3 Str 7 Haywire shots, instead of 1 Str 7 shot with d3 Haywire rolls. This would make it pretty great at popping light transports and slowing down heavy armor.

Ravager looks nice. Rest looks meh, but then, I don't like beakie helms or the old studded armor (I prefer "modern" Astartes armor).

jake wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:I like the rules as they are. It's not a super-weapon, but a rather dependable way to mess about with your opponents vehicles.

I'd seriously take D3 chances at interferences than 3 attempts at armour penetration.

Actually, with Heavy 3 it would be 3 Str 7 Haywire shots, instead of 1 Str 7 shot with d3 Haywire rolls. This would make it pretty great at popping light transports and slowing down heavy armor.

Guess it depends on your strategy. Personally, I like the Haywire rule, as I can fairly reliably stop tanks shooting up my troops, whilst my army bums his infantry into submission. Not everyone's cup of tea, but given the wealth of Dark Eldar anti-tank stuff, I do like the more subtle option.

I actually like the Haywire rule as well, and use Haywire Scourges a lot. But really, a heavy support slot firing 1 STR 7 shot with d3 Haywire rolls looks pretty weak next to every other HS option we have. STR 7 AP3 Heavy 3 Haywire would make the Reaper competitive with the rest of our choices.


As it is now, as much as I like the model and as much as I like using Haywire stuff, I can't see a compelling reason to use it over anything else in our Heavy Support.

I see you point, but don't forget it also does the big blast, which if I'm right in thinking, is the only dual-role weapon in the Dark Eldar Armoury, another reason I like this beasty.

As a fan of all things Pre-Heresy and Heresy, I love this release.

FW would be foolish indeed to ignore this segment of the market now that they've FINALLY realized how popular it is.

Mr Mystery wrote:I see you point, but don't forget it also does the big blast, which if I'm right in thinking, is the only dual-role weapon in the Dark Eldar Armoury, another reason I like this beasty.

The problem is, neither roll is done well enough to make it worth the points and the relatively short range means you can only reasonably expect to get one shot off in a game.

Melissia wrote:Ravager looks nice. Rest looks meh, but then, I don't like beakie helms or the old studded armor (I prefer "modern" Astartes armor).

funny that; the beakie helmet is part of the MK.VI power armor, which is both one of only two armor marks you can accurately build in multiples from a normal tac squad, and in fluff, one of the more recent variants.
that's not to say I like the corvus look either, but it's definately modern!

ThomasPolder wrote:

Melissia wrote:Ravager looks nice. Rest looks meh, but then, I don't like beakie helms or the old studded armor (I prefer "modern" Astartes armor).

funny that; the beakie helmet is part of the MK.VI power armor, which is both one of only two armor marks you can accurately build in multiples from a normal tac squad, and in fluff, one of the more recent variants.
that's not to say I like the corvus look either, but it's definitely modern!

And it is definitely awesome too!

Having said that, I'd really like a 100% complete and accurate MKVIII power armor miniature too, either plastic from GW or resin from FW!

Dunno if it's of interest to anyone, but should be getting my Reapers tomorrow.

I'll put pics up of the resin bits.

Alpharius wrote:

ThomasPolder wrote:

Melissia wrote:Ravager looks nice. Rest looks meh, but then, I don't like beakie helms or the old studded armor (I prefer "modern" Astartes armor).

funny that; the beakie helmet is part of the MK.VI power armor, which is both one of only two armor marks you can accurately build in multiples from a normal tac squad, and in fluff, one of the more recent variants.
that's not to say I like the corvus look either, but it's definitely modern!

And it is definitely awesome too!

Having said that, I'd really like a 100% complete and accurate MKVIII power armor miniature too, either plastic from GW or resin from FW!

Yes! This! This this and this again!

So quick recap for the people saying the Reaper is good -

The Reaper:

Trades pens for glances vs armor (sucks)

Hits less often over 100 turns, and has a 10x higher chance than a Ravager to do *nothing* in a given turn. It is considerably less accurate than a Ravager in all cases.

Costs more

If you give it 3 turns of shooting (fairly unlikely if you're facing decent opponents) you will see it produce 0 results at all on vehicles that aren't in cover in 11% of all games it's used. Cover pushes it closer to 16%. That's equivalent to saying "Roll a D6 for every Reaper in your army. On a roll of 1, this Reaper does nothing for the entire game" - odds of a Ravager doing that are infinitesmally small (<1%)

It's worse at killing anything except AV14, where it is only marginally better because of the inherent disadvantage to the way it's gun works. Most people wouldn't pay the same price as a Ravager for a Ravager that had 3x 36" haywire blasters. What FW is asking you to do here is pay more points for a much less accurate version of 3 haywire blasters that comes with an irrelevant special effect.

The Reaper's rules are pure garbage.

Too bad FW thinks only Space Marines deserve playable units. Or maybe their "designers" are just that damn stupid.

Really Aggy? 'Deserve playable units'? You're going to start up some generic Marine hate in a FW thread? FW generally makes unplayable units and mostly makes Guard units.

MikeMcSomething wrote:So quick recap for the people saying the Reaper is good -

The Reaper:

Trades pens for glances vs armor (sucks)

Hits less often over 100 turns, and has a 10x higher chance than a Ravager to do *nothing* in a given turn. It is considerably less accurate than a Ravager in all cases.

Costs more

If you give it 3 turns of shooting (fairly unlikely if you're facing decent opponents) you will see it produce 0 results at all on vehicles that aren't in cover in 11% of all games it's used. Cover pushes it closer to 16%. That's equivalent to saying "Roll a D6 for every Reaper in your army. On a roll of 1, this Reaper does nothing for the entire game" - odds of a Ravager doing that are infinitesmally small (<1%)

It's worse at killing anything except AV14, where it is only marginally better because of the inherent disadvantage to the way it's gun works. Most people wouldn't pay the same price as a Ravager for a Ravager that had 3x 36" haywire blasters. What FW is asking you to do here is pay more points for a much less accurate version of 3 haywire blasters that comes with an irrelevant special effect.

Dude, you look waaaaaay to far into things. It's a sexy model, with a cool gun. I'm sold.

Erm. and they're not asking you to do anything...at all. They've made a model, if you wants it, buys it. If not, ah well.

Mr Mystery wrote: Dude, you look waaaaaay to far into things. It's a sexy model, with a cool gun. I'm sold.
Erm. and they're not asking you to do anything...at all. They've made a model, if you wants it, buys it. If not, ah well.

That's why I bought one (and most other Forge World stuff I buy) - because it looks great - with proper sails as well.

the rules are a WIP and I'd be happy to use as a Ravager anyway in most games.

My problem with the heavy weapons?

The arms.

Sure, shoulder mounted and all is fine. I understand that. That works - but the fact that the free hand is doing...nothing. No movement. No options to have gripping, steadying or anything....

Just held out to the side rather awkwardly. There's no dynamic to these. At least not to their 'examples'.

DarkStarSabre wrote:My problem with the heavy weapons?

The arms.

Sure, shoulder mounted and all is fine. I understand that. That works - but the fact that the free hand is doing...nothing. No movement. No options to have gripping, steadying or anything....

Just held out to the side rather awkwardly. There's no dynamic to these. At least not to their 'examples'.

Well, clearly there are ways around that particular 'problem', right?

And I *think* they were very deliberately going for a 2nd edition feel with them.

There are lots of ways to make it look better, the simplest being to use the Devastator marine off arm from the missile launcher.

Just received my Reapers. Various parts included.

Part for the prow, the gun, prow blade (slots in where the ram normally sits, and supports the gun) Aethersail of course, barrel of course sits along the deck, with the controls slotting on top, plus two blades to go on the back.

It's pretty cool, but the first one at least needs a little straightening out.

I dont understand the appeal of 2nd edition looking models. It's like how the original startrek looked "low tech" which wasnt a result of the fluff of the universe but a result of the technology and budget available to the creators of the TV show

Same can be said about 2nd edition marines which I imagine would have looked a lot better had they had better technology in which to create the models. Its my own opinion to be sure but I think RTT and most 2nd edition models are gak especially the heavy weapon guys. Very dissapointed in this release not because of the shoulder mounted weapons but as above, the other arm is posed poorly and they are emulating the inferior technology of the past instead of reinventing a more retro look with more modern moulding abilities

I plan on buying an entire company of heresy marines at some point but these guys won't even be considered. The plastic dev kit is light years ahead of this in terms of quality, bits and appearance

Alpharius wrote:

DarkStarSabre wrote:My problem with the heavy weapons?

The arms.

Sure, shoulder mounted and all is fine. I understand that. That works - but the fact that the free hand is doing...nothing. No movement. No options to have gripping, steadying or anything....

Just held out to the side rather awkwardly. There's no dynamic to these. At least not to their 'examples'.

Well, clearly there are ways around that particular 'problem', right?

And I *think* they were very deliberately going for a 2nd edition feel with them.

There are lots of ways to make it look better, the simplest being to use the Devastator marine off arm from the missile launcher.

It's not even a Devastator Marine only piece. Every Tactical Squad has that bit in the box(the open palm hand supporting the launcher), so with a bit of searching it can be had pretty easy.

If its so easy they could have went through the trouble to sculpt that hand piece then for their "premium" figures imo. You shouldnt have to search a bits bin to get what should be in the kit from the start given the price and all the bits you *dont* get by buying this kit over a real dev box. People complain about GW being lazy at times with sculpting, FW should not be treated any different.

But it's a central part of the 'retro' look??

Not that I'm aware.

Not as if the Reaper has replaced the Ravager, which is never to be seen again, is it?

And seriously, all that maths? Going a bit far in my book. But hey, whatever turns you on fella.