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Luke_Prowler wrote:

htj wrote:Surely that could be fixed by making them cost about three times as much?

Vehicles in general or just ones with multiple weapons? My observation is that most vehicles only have one worth firing or never get a chance to fire because they're always going cruising speed/flat out.

I think it would have to be an adjustment by vehicle, so it'd take ages. However, I quite like the look of H.B.M.C.'s proposed rules there.

Thanks.

But I don't want to derail this into a wishlisty/proposed rules thread, as that's not the topic.

Sorry if I've derailed this.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Thanks.

But I don't want to derail this into a wishlisty/proposed rules thread, as that's not the topic.

Sorry if I've derailed this.

Go post them in another thread, then, so we can discuss them.

Back on topic, I've always been annoyed at how, in a galaxy in which there are 1000 chapters of Space Marines and countless regiments of Guard, how come the battles keep getting fought by the same few? And furthermore, Special Characters in general. They shrink the universe even more so. Now it's not just the same regiments and Chapters, it's the same people fighting every battle. Bah.

Thanks for the link H.B.M.C. It made my day.

n0t_u wrote:To be fair he was probably going blind by the time he wrote the GK codex.

Hairy palms do make it hard to type, it's true.

Sabet wrote:Actually your wrong Grakmar. Both oni and darkPrince are correct. In 4th rapid fire was half weapon distance.

No, you, oni and DarkPrince are all wrong. In 4th, rapid fire was two shots at 12". I even remember a big YMDC bruhaha because Tau wanted to rapid fire their guns at 18" since they top out at 36".

Check p29 of the 4th edition rulebook.

Omegus wrote:

Sabet wrote:Actually your wrong Grakmar. Both oni and darkPrince are correct. In 4th rapid fire was half weapon distance.

No, you, oni and DarkPrince are all wrong. In 4th, rapid fire was two shots at 12". I even remember a big YMDC bruhaha because Tau wanted to rapid fire their guns at 18" since they top out at 36".

Check p29 of the 4th edition rulebook.

Bah! Omegus beat me too it.

p29 of 4th edition BGB: "An infantry model armed with a rapid fire weapon can shoot twice at targets up to 12" away."

Sabet wrote:Actually your wrong Grakmar. Both oni and darkPrince are correct. In 4th rapid fire was half weapon distance.

It's weird how some people just get the wrong rule lodged so firmly in their minds. I've known a couple people who insisted that rapid fire weapons could also fire one shot, and then charge, in both fourth and fifth editions.

You'd be amazed at the "Dreadnought Close Weapons always get 2D6 pen" interpretation. We played that way for years. When someone here finally said "No, it's 1D6" there was a litany of posters going "Really?" "Are you sure?" "What? We've been getting it wrong?".

That has to be the most common rules error in the game.

I think what bugs me most is how cover works. It shouldn't be a save, it should modify the shooter's ballistic skill. If you shoot a meltagun at me, a bush isn't gonna negate the hit, it's just gonna make it harder for you to hit.

The Epic Chaosdude!!! wrote:
1.Units only getting one save at a time? So if I wear an power armour, force field and Im in cover, I can only use one of them?

Yeah, this doesnt make sense, but lets do some math.

A TH/SS termie in cover takes a wound from a shot.

2+ armor- 1/6 chance of unsaved wound.
3+ invul - the chance of an unsaved wound is now 1/18.
4x cover - the chance is now 1/36.

So I would have to deal 36 wound to said squad to kill one termie.

Now imagine if said squad had FnP.
chance of unsaved wound is 1/72. 72 wounds worth of shooting to kill one 40 point model.



I totally agree that it's stupid you have to choose, but it would be even dumber if you didnt.

I hate it that a unit is destroyed if it's transport is destroyed and it cannot disembark because there is an enemy by the door. Just kick it open and jump!
I had a squad of sternguard with Pedro Kantor wiped out that way in my last game. Stupid hordes of gaunts. A chaptermaster can't open the door and get out because a gaunt is there.

thesearmsarerob wrote:I hate it that a unit is destroyed if it's transport is destroyed and it cannot disembark because there is an enemy by the door. Just kick it open and jump!
I had a squad of sternguard with Pedro Kantor wiped out that way in my last game. Stupid hordes of gaunts. A chaptermaster can't open the door and get out because a gaunt is there.

That's not actually the rules; please see emergency disembarkation.

Alazahr wrote:1.) In the fiction Bolter munitions are always described as being "case-less"

They are almost never described as being caseless.

Whoops my noob must be showing!

I thought it didn't make sense but it was ratified by a couple of other people at the club so I went with it.


I really need to get back back up to speed with 5th ed.

Melissia wrote:

Alazahr wrote:1.) In the fiction Bolter munitions are always described as being "case-less"

They are almost never described as being caseless.

Rogue Trader munitions were caseless to the point that their equivalent to a Bolter round would be a 40mm Self-Propelled Grenade. The current standing is that they do throw off casings now. See below:

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4397/boltershell.jpg

-J.

MandalorynOranj wrote:I think what bugs me most is how cover works. It shouldn't be a save, it should modify the shooter's ballistic skill.

It's a save so your opponent has something to do during your turn and feels like he has the power to save his troops. In 2nd Ed it was a modifier, and you'd just sit there removing models.

Slarg232 wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:4. Draigo; incase you haven't read the Grey Knights codex, this guy is a living "SCREW YOU" to every Chaos and Chaos Space Marine player, courtesy of Matt Ward.

This right here is why I stopped playing 40K; the game isn't even a game anymore, it's just "Insult the dudes who AREN'T imperials, we get more money that way". Space Marines get fourty codexes in the time it takes the Dark Eldar to get one, and the rules are completely skewed in Space Marine Favor....

So I take it you bought into the internet draigo hate craze instead of actually thinking about his fluff.

He's an analogy for the Imperium. Full of heroic deeds, super strong and great. You think that is dumb, because you can't understand that nothing he ever does is significant. He wrecks stuff in the warp, and it doesn't matter. It's all the same the next day. It's exactly like how the Imperium is faring, heroically holding the line while at the end of the day evil still grows stronger and humanity fades ever so slightly more away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PraetorDave wrote:Damaging vehicles. It just blows. This literally happened in a game the other day:

My brother: "so I just rolled a 4 against your predator, what is that?"
Me: "immoblized"
Bro: "awesome, so it can't shoot anymore?"
Me: "nope, I can shoot all my guns next turn, and they can swivel too"
Bro: "now how does that work?"
Me: "beats me. Oh look my immoblized pred just put a lascannon through your zoanthropes face. Sucks"

Also, there need to be more modifiers to the damage table. Because even though it was just a glance, my opponent always rolls a 6. So my tank is immobilized because you glanced it?

Immobilized means not mobile any more, I'm amazed by the fact that you find difficulty understanding that.

This thread is getting pretty terrible.

my biggest problem with the game is with the codex. seriously. Space wolves is one of the most overpowered and poorly written codex ever, next up gaurd. But i am not going to pick on these .... instead i will pick on Nids.

New Nids codex and it sucks. yep.
No longer are we a good melee army. No... instead since we lost flesh hooks the way to win is to sit in cover and shoot our guys down. then when we charge you simply win in the ensuing melee and the fearless wounds do the rest of the work wiping out the assaulting nids unit.

Armor. Yeah we suck at anit armor to so if you have some vehicles we have an impossible time dealling with those too. It can be done, but it is much harder than it needs to be.

Crappy units. Pyrovore, spore pod, harpy, ripperswarm, spore mine. they all suck. Lictor got the nerf and the new lictor is the Ymgarl. what was wrong with leaving lictor the way they were.

Impacted eliete slots. Anyone can tell that the elite slots are over impacted.

Armies that you just loose when you face them.
Dark eldar (poison, more maneuverable, better shooting and melee)
Orks Better melee and shooting plus cheaper and better models.
Blood angels and space wolves... see above.
Ig...did someone say better shooting.
eldar. How do you catch what is faster and better armed than you are.

so yes. MY biggest prob. with GW rules is that they have such crappy rules for some armies and such great rules for others. I wont even go into how they make a few good units and then dont supply you with a model for the afformentioned unit ( tervigon comes to mind.)

I really dislike how in the fluff, bolters and chainswords can destroy anything and everything, yet in game they are only AP 5 and not a power weapon.

Sky57 wrote:I really dislike how in the fluff, bolters and chainswords can destroy anything and everything, yet in game they are only AP 5 and not a power weapon.

Try BoLS's 'Movie Marine' codex. 12 Marines and a Razorback = 1500 pts, and I was able to tear through anything my friend threw at me. We did a game where it was 2000 pts of Marines vs. a good 3000 points of Chaos Marines, Orks, and Imperial Guard, played longways.

I was able to kill over half his army, but we cheered every time a Marine fell. I mean, T 6, S 6, I 5 Marines with power armour with a 3+ reroll save and a 4++ save, with Fleet, Bolters that are assault 4 rending 36", chainswords that are power weapons, with rending, and reroll failed to wound? It was nuts!

Also, another thing that erks me: U-Go-I-Go. I like Integrated Turn games much more, since it's not a 'I kill everything on this side, then you kill everything on this side'. IT games make you think more, since that unit you're planning on assaulting may not be within range by the time you get to move your assaulting unit.

Another thing that irks me about vehicles - Assaulting vehicles and always attacking rear armour. I much preferred it when manoeuvre and positioning was an important part of assault.

I agree with the people about vehicle rules.

Tanks are important because they are mobile, not because they are armored. Otherwise, a pillbox is usually better armored.

Tanks had sponsons so they could enfilade two units on either side in a trench. Not so they had to awkwardly pivot to bring two guns to bear on one target.

DarknessEternal wrote:

thesearmsarerob wrote:I hate it that a unit is destroyed if it's transport is destroyed and it cannot disembark because there is an enemy by the door. Just kick it open and jump!
I had a squad of sternguard with Pedro Kantor wiped out that way in my last game. Stupid hordes of gaunts. A chaptermaster can't open the door and get out because a gaunt is there.

That's not actually the rules; please see emergency disembarkation.

I can't seem to find that in my rulebook, could you give me a page number?

Also, one that that really bugs me is having to roll to hit and missing something 3 inches away from the firing unit , I wish GW would re-institute their short range-long range modifiers from second edition.

We did this for Vehicles/Monstrous Creatures/Walkers. If you were within 6" of it you got +1BS.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Another thing that irks me about vehicles - Assaulting vehicles and always attacking rear armour. I much preferred it when manoeuvre and positioning was an important part of assault.

I'm sure that makes sense in your head, but I'd like to be able to destroy a leman russ with my Orks

Luke_Prowler wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Another thing that irks me about vehicles - Assaulting vehicles and always attacking rear armour. I much preferred it when manoeuvre and positioning was an important part of assault.

I'm sure that makes sense in your head, but I'd like to be able to destroy a leman russ with my Orks

Yeah but when did this happen in real life, okay so my rhino (which in this case has an armored assualt ramp just for kicks, just to give an image of it) is raming a leman russ and it hits its back armor immediately what the gak?

Also I hate VechileHammer right now it is getting annoying to see people play a load of different vehicles in just one game, its really getting annoying to see and play.

Asherian Command wrote:

Luke_Prowler wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Another thing that irks me about vehicles - Assaulting vehicles and always attacking rear armour. I much preferred it when manoeuvre and positioning was an important part of assault.

I'm sure that makes sense in your head, but I'd like to be able to destroy a leman russ with my Orks

Yeah but when did this happen in real life, okay so my rhino (which in this case has an armored assualt ramp just for kicks, just to give an image of it) is raming a leman russ and it hits its back armor immediately what the gak?

Ramming doesn't hit the back armor.

Luke_Prowler wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Luke_Prowler wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Another thing that irks me about vehicles - Assaulting vehicles and always attacking rear armour. I much preferred it when manoeuvre and positioning was an important part of assault.

I'm sure that makes sense in your head, but I'd like to be able to destroy a leman russ with my Orks

Yeah but when did this happen in real life, okay so my rhino (which in this case has an armored assualt ramp just for kicks, just to give an image of it) is raming a leman russ and it hits its back armor immediately what the gak?

Ramming doesn't hit the back armor.

DRAT!
I have been fouled again!

The Epic Chaosdude!!! wrote:

3.Too much FNP.

I haven't seen that much FNP actually. Probably due to my lack of ever actually playing

Haven't seen that much FNP

Orks - Painboy, gives squad FNP
IG - Medics, gives squad FNP
Gk - Apothacary, gives squad FNP
C:SM - Apothacary, gives squad FNP
Blood angels - Priest, gives squad FNP
DE - Pain token/haemonculi, gives squad FNP

There's a gak tonne of it about

Luke_Prowler wrote:I'm sure that makes sense in your head, but I'd like to be able to destroy a leman russ with my Orks

Then charge its rear armour.

Sorry, but Orks managed in the past, they can manage in the future with armour on vehicles counting completely when in assault. Movement becomes more important and HTH becomes less spammy.