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Let's not forget that the HLoT don't just have to cede power to a returning Primarch; after all, the head of the Inquisition sits on the Council, and who does the Inquisition control? That's right, Kaldor Draigo, for whom Primarchs are no match.

Seaward wrote:Let's not forget that the HLoT don't just have to cede power to a returning Primarch; after all, the head of the Inquisition sits on the Council, and who does the Inquisition control? That's right, Kaldor Draigo, for whom Primarchs are no match.

Please don't say that again. It hurts my common sense.

primarch's are pretty legendary, and would possibly hand draigo his own ass, but it may happen the other, way, draigo, does, after all, live in the warp.

I think that was a joke, as Ward thought it a fitting tale that Draigo cut his forebearers name into Mortarions heart (just a sec..my soul just threw up a little bit..).. the reason obviously being "because feth you, THATS why" ..

edit: why the heck do i always press the "quote" button when i want to "edit" xD

The Draigo thing was probably the worst thing in that generally badly written abortion of fluff....

All in all, I think it'd depend on the Primarch. I doubt many of them would be very happy with the state of the Imperium at all though.

-

They would probably balk at how overly religious the IOM has become but still remain loyal.

Durza wrote:

Seaward wrote:Let's not forget that the HLoT don't just have to cede power to a returning Primarch; after all, the head of the Inquisition sits on the Council, and who does the Inquisition control? That's right, Kaldor Draigo, for whom Primarchs are no match.

Please don't say that again. It hurts my common sense.

Hey, I didn't write the fluff, though if wishing made it so...

Anyway. Yeah. Draigo. He's defeated a Primarch. Says so right in his book. Ergo, Russ would have to be on his toes around him.

I'M JUST USING LOGIC.

Daigo defeated one of Khorne's greatest servants on his own, and he isn't even a Grey Knight. He crushes Draigo to the floor with a flick of his wrist.

iproxtaco wrote:Daigo defeated one of Khorne's greatest servants on his own, and he isn't even a Grey Knight. He crushes Draigo to the floor with a flick of his wrist.

Who the hell is Daigo? If he's a Blood Angel, I'm calling racism.

Seaward wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Daigo defeated one of Khorne's greatest servants on his own, and he isn't even a Grey Knight. He crushes Draigo to the floor with a flick of his wrist.

Who the hell is Daigo? If he's a Blood Angel, I'm calling racism.

Dante*, if you'll excuse the typo. Still, Dante apparently clove Skarbrand in half using his axe. That's a feat even more spectacular than Dragio's. Again though, people will hate for hatin's sake, never mind that many of the things that make Draigo so OOT (apparently) have been accomplished by other, lesser soldiers. Hector Rex? Thawn?

iproxtaco wrote:

Seaward wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Daigo defeated one of Khorne's greatest servants on his own, and he isn't even a Grey Knight. He crushes Draigo to the floor with a flick of his wrist.

Who the hell is Daigo? If he's a Blood Angel, I'm calling racism.

Dante*, if you'll excuse the typo. Still, Dante apparently clove Skarbrand in half using his axe. That's a feat even more spectacular than Dragio's. Again though, people will hate for hatin's sake, never mind that many of the things that make Draigo so OOT (apparently) have been accomplished by other, lesser soldiers. Hector Rex? Thawn?

As far as I'm aware, Draigo's the only guy to have ever defeated a Daemon Primarch single-handed.

Yeah, a Daemon Primarch who is weaker than Skarbrand, who is a Daemon, and who is weaker than Ku'gath, and still a Daemon. Without wanting to derail the thread too much, a single Chapter Master who isn't a Grey Knight and therefore has no advantages against Daemons, fought and killed Skarbrand, a being that's far more powerful than Mortarion. Thawn, is a Justicar, far behind Draigo on the command chain, was literally eaten by Ku'gath, the most powerful Great Unclean One, more powerful than Mortarion, and he then proceeded to rip his way out through the Daemon's stomach, and killed it.
Comparing the two is stupid. It's like comparing a man with a stick killing a Lion, to a fully armoured Knight with a sword, killing a single dog. The latter is Draigo, the former is Dante.

Seaward wrote:

Durza wrote:

Seaward wrote:Let's not forget that the HLoT don't just have to cede power to a returning Primarch; after all, the head of the Inquisition sits on the Council, and who does the Inquisition control? That's right, Kaldor Draigo, for whom Primarchs are no match.

Please don't say that again. It hurts my common sense.

Hey, I didn't write the fluff, though if wishing made it so...

Anyway. Yeah. Draigo. He's defeated a Primarch. Says so right in his book. Ergo, Russ would have to be on his toes around him.

I'M JUST USING LOGIC.

Well then, logically, Fulgrim can kill Draigo easily, since he's killed double the amount of primarchs.

I think they would! he could be a proxy and do whatever they really want... the struggle would be between the primarchs for real power while the big emp takes a seat.

MAN that bit of fluff about draigo feths me off. I mean seriously a muther fething daemon primarch, having his chest ripped open and having to sit there wailing whilst a puny little man in silver armour painstakingly inscribes his lords name onto Mortarions? I mean sheeeeet really? its stupid. How can an adeptus astartes (are GK Adeptus astartes?) beat a primarch, let alone a daemon primarch?

The Son Of Russ wrote:MAN that bit of fluff about draigo feths me off. I mean seriously a muther fething daemon primarch, having his chest ripped open and having to sit there wailing whilst a puny little man in silver armour painstakingly inscribes his lords name onto Mortarions? I mean sheeeeet really? its stupid. How can an adeptus astartes (are GK Adeptus astartes?) beat a primarch, let alone a daemon primarch?

By being very good at fighting Daemons. No really, didn't you hear? Grey Knights are actually these really, really skilled Daemon Hunters! I mean, isn't that a surprise? And then the absolute best of these Astartes, that are already better than your normal Astartes, actually went and beat this Daemon.
Get over it. Dante, a normal Space Marine, a Chapter Master, yes, beat a much more powerful Daemon than Mortarion, alone. An Inquisitor solo'd the same one. A regular old Justicar, quite far below Draigo, killed Ku'gath, another more powerful Daemon than Mortarion. The whole character is brought down due to horrific writing skill, not the actual deeds committed. Killing a Daemon Prince or Greater Daemon isn't fantastically over the top or unheard of.

I agree on the badly executed part. I mean, to actually CUT the name into the heart, mortarion must've been immobilised for quote some time. I can buy the "awesome hero spacemarine manages to gravely wound/ kill a demon in a fight", but to actually keep him down for long enough to do all that...

Friend of mine still says that mortarion was actually taking a quick powernap at the time and woke up with a "W T F" xD

If the Emperor was resurrected and called back his sons to his side, I would think Magnus would strongly consider it, although he's probably too closely tied to the Warp now, being an immaterial entity. If Alpharius wasn't BSing about doing it all for the Emperor, he may return as well, although he would probably just say on the "evil" side as a double agent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Config2 wrote:Thus, the salvation of the IoM relies on one of a few things....
1. Guilliman healing even faster
2. The Salamanders finding the rest of their relics
3. SOMEBODY finally braving the Eye of Terror to go get Russ
4. Any of the others showing up out of their various predicaments

In the end, however, it is a mute point because GW would NEVER complete any fluff EVER.

1. Guilliman is not healing at all, he is eternally trapped in the last few moments of his agonizing death. If it was possible to heal him and wake him up, he'll probably be completely flying rodent gak insane. Even if he is sane, there would undoubtedly be a Civil War. One of the big complains the Traitors during the Heresy was the Emperor delegating so much authority to these "puny human bureaucrats". The High Lords would probably demand his fealty, since they are for all intents and purposes the Emperor's voice. Or, since Guilliman was a High Lord himself, they may accept him as one voice among their council. So he would probably say screw that and spark of Imperium Secundus for real.
2. Not sure what gathering a bunch of weapons and armor will do to really help the Imperium.
3. In some ways, Russ would be an even bigger liability than Guilliman. Guilliman would at least attempt to negotiate. Guilliman would also stand a chance of winning, whereas Russ would just inflict horrendous damage and perhaps embark on a guerilla vengeance quest to destroy the perversion of his father's dream.

Omegus wrote:If the Emperor was resurrected and called back his sons to his side, I would think Magnus would strongly consider it, although he's probably too closely tied to the Warp now, being an immaterial entity. If Alpharius wasn't BSing about doing it all for the Emperor, he may return as well, although he would probably just say on the "evil" side as a double agent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Config2 wrote:Thus, the salvation of the IoM relies on one of a few things....
1. Guilliman healing even faster
2. The Salamanders finding the rest of their relics
3. SOMEBODY finally braving the Eye of Terror to go get Russ
4. Any of the others showing up out of their various predicaments

In the end, however, it is a mute point because GW would NEVER complete any fluff EVER.

1. Guilliman is not healing at all, he is eternally trapped in the last few moments of his agonizing death. If it was possible to heal him and wake him up, he'll probably be completely flying rodent gak insane. Even if he is sane, there would undoubtedly be a Civil War. One of the big complains the Traitors during the Heresy was the Emperor delegating so much authority to these "puny human bureaucrats". The High Lords would probably demand his fealty, since they are for all intents and purposes the Emperor's voice. Or, since Guilliman was a High Lord himself, they may accept him as one voice among their council. So he would probably say screw that and spark of Imperium Secundus for real.
2. Not sure what gathering a bunch of weapons and armor will do to really help the Imperium.
3. In some ways, Russ would be an even bigger liability than Guilliman. Guilliman would at least attempt to negotiate. Guilliman would also stand a chance of winning, whereas Russ would just inflict horrendous damage and perhaps embark on a guerilla vengeance quest to destroy the perversion of his father's dream.

I don't think Alpharius would come back. I mean he left the IoM back when his father was alive. Although Horus failed, i like to think that Alpharius is still plotting the downfall of the Imperium with the goal to destroy chaos.

As for Guilliman: He is in a stasis field. That means the second they collapse it and throw a cake filled with meds at him time will start to flow again for him (some say he is already dead, not even in his death throes). So he won't be "tortured mad" by the experience of dying for thousands of years. For him it would be as if nothing happened, just the surroundings changed in a heartbeat.

He still would have the aftereffects of the poison to deal with, and, knowing the swords Fulgrim likes to use, would have his own Horus-like visions.

No he wouldn't. The sword is not what invokes the visions.

That depends on the sword. Maybe he has one that acts like the Laer blade did, but on everyone it cuts.

Durza wrote:That depends on the sword. Maybe he has one that acts like the Laer blade did, but on everyone it cuts.

He used the Anathema Blade. It's effective against Primarchs, stopping their healing capabilities so they die. Guilliman was only saved thanks to being put in a Stasis bubble. It does not cause people to have visions.

iDevour wrote:As for Guilliman: He is in a stasis field. That means the second they collapse it and throw a cake filled with meds at him time will start to flow again for him (some say he is already dead, not even in his death throes). So he won't be "tortured mad" by the experience of dying for thousands of years. For him it would be as if nothing happened, just the surroundings changed in a heartbeat.

A stasis field stops the flow of time for your body, but you keep experiencing the last thing you felt indefinitely. The Inquisition often uses it as an interrogation/torture device. For example, think how waterboarding can make you feel like you're drowning, but they can't keep it up for long without actually drowning you. With a stasis field, they can prolong that sensation for centuries.

Ooooookay...i did not know that (it also makes no sense imo xD), but thanks for the info
Oh man, i now 2 spacemarines in the DW game im running that would be piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissed xD
Meh, not going to retcon them

I don't think so. After being in the warp for so long, I don't think he would be loyal.

This is a fantastic thread topic, Chowderhead -- one of the best I've ever seen in the 40k sub-forum. Cheers to you, mate.

Here's my take:

To begin with, I don't see any Primarch humbling themselves to the High Lords -- except Dorn. The real questions are how would they work with each other or would they even be willing to? And, of course, how would they get along with the "real" power, the Inquisition.

The Lion: The Lion's loyalty to the Emperor has always been somewhat ambiguous and, like his Legion, he was very introspective. Of all the primarchs, Jonson would be the most amenable to working with the Inquisition. As to which faction he would support ... well, I think it's safe to say he would probably found his own. I think many of his brothers would be very suspicious of him and Guilliman would likely be the one most willing to work with him.

Khan: He would get right to work on healing the disunities of the Imperium, which would put him in conflict with certain Inquisitors. I think Khan would be eager to work with the other returned primarchs and, along with Sanguinius, try to forster cooperation among those whose personalities clash.

Leman Russ: Not much has changed for the SW in 10,000 years. They still follow their own ways and remain true to what the Emperor made them for -- a loyal if brutal watchdog. Russ would be difficult to work with and despite being personally gregarious would probably end up the most aloof of the returned primarchs. He would struggle against a lot of what he found in M42, especially the Inquisition. Russ's sons are very much like him so I think this is an easy one to imagine.

Rogal Dorn: Outwardly, Dorn would be the best-adjusted of all the returned primarchs. But he carries an immense guilt with him that would keep him at Terra, in attendance to the Golden Throne. Dorn would make trouble, I think, not for the powers-that-be in M42 but for any other primarchs who tried to change the status quo. I can see a very formal, very emotionally empty alliance with Roboute Guilliman. Dorn would look for someone that he could be second-in-command to and Sanguinius and Guilliman are the most likely candidates.

Sanguinius: His return would be a massive ray of light in the GrimDark. Whole sectors would erupt in tears if Sanguinius returned. Strangely, I think the Ecclesiarchy would view him with tremendous suspicion although I doubt worship of the Emperor would trouble him as much as other primarchs. His chief rival would be Guilliman although not because Sanguinius would try to provoke him. Sanguinius would want nothing short of a Second Great Crusade.

Ferrus Mannus: Ferrus would of course be the primarchs' bridge to Mars and he might be more sympathetic to the Mechanicum than to the rest of the Imperium. I think only a strong and cold alliance with Guilliman would keep him in check from efficiently sorting out M42. He would be not-quite-openly despised by the Cardinals of the Ecclesiarchy but win the sympathy of many if not all Puritan Monodominants in the Inquisition.

Guilliman: The man best and least suited to inherit the Imperium, although that would be unseemly with dad still "alive." Guilliman would find ready friends in Ferrus Mannus and Lion'El Jonson, which would make him tremendously powerful. However, he would not be able to take the lead with Sanguinius back. Guilliman would be willing to work with Sanguinius and vice versa (note the BA cleave as closely as they can to the Codex) but although they are both men of vision they have such different styles. Guilliman's paranoia and Batman-like contingency scheming would cause trouble here. He'd also be at odds with any Imperial institution that didn't see things his way, which would be most of them ... initially.

Vulkan: He would be the most sorrowful about the way things are in M42 and that would make him dangerously critical of the status quo. He'd be a readier ally to Sanguinius than Guilliman and Guilliman would not like that. He'd also be aghast at the Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy. Dorn would look down on him as "not willing to do what must be done" but also, in a way that would trouble Dorn, agree with Vulkan. Guilliman would take great pains to keep him at arm's length from Russ.

Corax: More than even Vulkan or Russ, Corax would hate the soulcrushing despair of M42. If anyone would decry the Imperium outright, it'd be Corax. Even so, Corax would be a pragmatic supporter of Guilliman because of the ideology of the Codex. Corax would have faith that Guilliman could be trusted to set things right -- although he may be somewhat reluctant to buy totally into the "paradise" of Ultramar.

I believe that if any or all of the primarchs came back they would clean house and probably revolutionize the stupid bureaucratic garbage that rules terra. I feel like a primarch's authority would supercede the high lords of terra and hopefully most imperial citizens and maybe even some of the bureaucratic chumps would support them.

Iandroid wrote:I believe that if any or all of the primarchs came back they would clean house and probably revolutionize the stupid bureaucratic garbage that rules terra. I feel like a primarch's authority would supercede the high lords of terra and hopefully most imperial citizens and maybe even some of the bureaucratic chumps would support them.

That wasn't the case before the Heresy, why would it be the case now?

If the primarchs return, it would open up a few interesting plot devices. Here are a few that I could think of:

• Imperium Civil war between the returning loyal Primarchs and the High Lords of Terra.
• Some of the primarchs that ventured into the eye of terror have become tainted by chaos.
• Abaddon takes full advantage of the civil war and launches a full scale black crusade (with all the traitor legions and warbands involved).
• Ghazz takes advantage of the civil war and declares another full scale waaaugh against Armageddon.
• Tyranids takes advantage of the civil war and launch a full scale invasion against Macragge.
• Cypher approaches terra with the lion sword.