Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With all the changes that the Imperium has gone through in the past 10,000 years, would the (Loyalist) Primarchs stay loyal if they came back?

Let's say that Khan came back from the warp where he was trapped. Would he remain loyal to what has become a shadow of an empire, rules by a religion he deems heretical, find his Legion now shattered and just a shade of it's former glory, and not using the advanced technology that he used?

I'd say they would. If the would come back from the warp, they would still recognize the Emperor as their leader and would gather up every successor chapter of their former legion, to lead them on an new crusade.

They will be but they will no like/tolerate the Imperium as it is.

I think they would probably be seen as too dangerous a power by the High Lords to be allowed to survive.

Dorn or Guilliman coming back would be the most acceptable for the High Lords (though I think they would still have some serious issues).

Anyone else would be very interesting (and probably very bloody).

SilverMK2 wrote:I think they would probably be seen as too dangerous a power by the High Lords to be allowed to survive.

High Lords? Say hi to the deathwing...


To Primarchs, there is only one to follow, he who they swore fealty to.
Highlords are replacable...

The High Lords wouldn't oppose a Primarch if he is alongside other astartes. Because if the adeptus astartes finds out, the whole lot comes down on these "high" lords to lay them low.

Thus, Primarchs would be loyal to him on Terra, maybe to humanity, but rather not to a high-lord. They may respect the mechanicum as it was an ally back in the day and still is. Plus, most of them left after the heresy was over, after the scouring, etc and could know where the course was set to.

They'd probably try to return the Imperium to the path the Emperor tried to set it on.

Durza wrote:They'd probably try to return the Imperium to the path the Emperor tried to set it on.

Or maybe they would like to chat with him just to see if there has been any change in policies.

Which may be difficult since he's dead and all

they probly start out working together then devolve in to war amongst themselves over who should rule in the emporer's stead imho

The only two I could see that happening between would be the Lion and Guilliman. And Guilliman has a lot more Marines...

I think that the Lion or Guilliman would decide that they knew their fathers wishes and that he would not want to continue through artificial means, then proceed to remake the IoM in their own image.

And when they unplugged the Golden Throne, Terra gets eaten by daemons...

I suspect itd make for some rather considerable awkwardness between the high lords and the adeptus astartes.

The high lords have gone against the emperors wishes on two counts:
- allowing people to worship him as a god
- allowing people to have religion

The primarchs being loyal to the emperor would not take kindly to the caretakers making changes as they see fit. The caretakers would not take kindly to being told to gtfo and undo what they have done over the last 10 millennia.

War between the two? Unlikely, many imperial citizens would be unwilling to fight the astartes, due to the legendary and formidable reputation surrounding them, and due to the fact that many may in fact owe them their lives. Imho it would all depend on which side the mechanicum allies with as that could change the balance of power greatly- a space marine with no access to new weaponry or armour isn't going to fare as well as millions of guardsmen with flashlights and artillery strikes.

And before the possibility of trying to assasinate the primarch is thrown up as a counter argument- what good space marine is going to allow their primarch to be killed? I'm sure they would sooner take the bullet/lascannon themselves.

Mechanized Space Corps wrote:And before the possibility of trying to assasinate the primarch is thrown up as a counter argument- what good space marine is going to allow their primarch to be killed? I'm sure they would sooner take the bullet/lascannon themselves.

It would have to be done quickly to limit the "taint" of the returned primarch and make it easier to contain. The big I have removed almost all mention of the HH throughout the Imperium (depending on the fluff you read), wiping out a few systems to ensure that no word of the return of a primarch and squatting a few SM chapters would not bother them - the Imperium (as it stands) is more important (to those in control) than that.

Durza wrote:And when they unplugged the Golden Throne, Terra gets eaten by daemons...

Umm not quite. If it would be it'd be a hell of a way to move the timeline a bit!

Chowderhead wrote:With all the changes that the Imperium has gone through in the past 10,000 years, would the (Loyalist) Primarchs stay loyal if they came back?

Let's say that Khan came back from the warp where he was trapped. Would he remain loyal to what has become a shadow of an empire, rules by a religion he deems heretical, find his Legion now shattered and just a shade of it's former glory, and not using the advanced technology that he used?

Hardly...
They would be pissed off at HLoT, and try to implement some changes for sure.

Durza wrote:The only two I could see that happening between would be the Lion and Guilliman. And Guilliman has a lot more Marines...

so does the Lion. The Lion when he comes back he will control all the Dark Angel Successor Chapters, The entire Unforgiven Chapters and all the other ones that have bee founded recently.

I think they would, but that's just me. They wouldn't bail on the Imperium.

If that were to happen I believe the Lion would be loyal to his brother Guilliman and start the crusade for the Second Empire. With the decline and 'corruption' rife within the remnants of the first, these two, and their Marines would find renewed purpose cleansing the Galaxy once again.

I seriously doubt there would be much in-fighting as the primarchs have probably learned a great lesson by now.

Eh, but I don't right this crap so who knows.

Whoa, thats a big question.
Overall, they would be loyal, to the Emperor, not the High Lords.
They are however, far more powerful than the High Lords, not to mention more Charismatic and Intelligent.
They, or He, would rest control of the Empire from the High Lords and "unplug" the Golden Throne.

This would not result in the pwning of Terra by Daemons however, it would result in the rebirth of the Emperor (see the Warhammer Wiki Illuminati prophecy)

Thus, the salvation of the IoM relies on one of a few things....
1. Guilliman healing even faster
2. The Salamanders finding the rest of their relics
3. SOMEBODY finally braving the Eye of Terror to go get Russ
4. Any of the others showing up out of their various predicaments

In the end, however, it is a mute point because GW would NEVER complete any fluff EVER.

It's okay that they don't give us answers to questions. Makes it more interesting. You wouldnt care about the puzzle and what it showed you if you had those dozen pieces that were actually under the couch.

Let GW tease the fanboys. I'm enjoying the setting. Though I would like them to release a Horus Heresy rulebook.

the jerks.

Well, the Primarchs were only doing stuff becuase they liked fighting, save for Sangunius, who followed the Emperor's dream of peace, but welll, the Primarchs were bloody gits.

Uhlan wrote:If that were to happen I believe the Lion would be loyal to his brother Guilliman and start the crusade for the Second Empire. With the decline and 'corruption' rife within the remnants of the first, these two, and their Marines would find renewed purpose cleansing the Galaxy once again.

I seriously doubt there would be much in-fighting as the primarchs have probably learned a great lesson by now.

This is probably the best answer, they would go to Terra and check the situation.
As soon as they see how fragile the Imperium is they would start another crusade to stabilize him ( not sure if Guliman would then ban codex Astartes for chapters under the Primarchs? ).
I only don't know how Inquisition would welcome them, I bet that they wouldn't have nice relationship ( especially with Russ and Lion ).

Heretics!

Seriously, we already know that Russ wouldn't take nice their attitude toward Wolves. Lion wouldn't love the investigation because of their "dark secret".

But what about Rogal Dorn? Does anyone found his body? I heard that only his arm was salvaged.

Servo arms! Weeeeeeeeeee!

I think Guilliman would just succumb to major heart-attack after seeing what they did with his Codex xD (how many hearts does a primarch have anyways )

Any Primarch coming back would probably wind up being the Lord Commander of the Imperium as Guilliman was. From there I could imagine a rather large purging of the imperial cult as many would remember the lesson dealt to Fulgrim.

It could prove quite the pickle for the Imperium. I can imagine that rifts would form and another great age of war would be born. If the returned Primarch decided to become part of the existing Imperium, they would definitely hold instant power.

Some of the High Lords are greedy and corrupt and as power hungry as Bucharris and wouldn't likely let their power go quietly. The High Lords act on behalf of the Emperor so I am sure you would have some Chapters ally themselves with these. Some would welcome back the Primarch and side with them.

It's like if the Emperor came back, despite him being lord and master of all, people wouldn't be happy all the way down from the High Lords, Inquistion etc.

If they didn't like what they saw, the same thing would likely happen. The worst would be if Guilliman returned and bought all of the Chapters that used his Geneseed under his banner.