What if: Fate of the Adeptus Astartes if the Horus Heresy never happened?

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**vodo40k**

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:I have waited looong time for a thread like this.

First of all, Wh40k would be less "grimdark". Here are the results of my brainstorm and fanmade writing.

After the galaxy was conquered be the Emperor, he saw the threat of Chaos. He understood that mankind needed to destroy its corrupting influence, for he had been told by Horus about the treasonous chaplain Erebus his son had executed after he tried to convert him to chaos. His citizens were already introduced to the Imperial Truth, freeing them from the chains of religion, and the Gods of Chaos were getting weaker and weaker, with no one left to hear their empty promises.

He made an agreement with the Eldar, that prevented the participants from attacking each other. He saw them as effective tools to aid mankind in its quest. He then proceeded to collect all the other remaining technological artefacts in order to make more effective warmachines and improve civilian things also, in the form of education, health care etc.

All was changed when the techpriests found a working STC from the Agri-world of Colthan. It had been partly buried under the ground, until a visiting Magos Biologis had spotted it. The Imperium experienced a technological revolution, achieving its zenite position once again. The Emperor's dream and great work were now complete, ready to return humankind to greatness once again.

With the help of the Eldar, the scientists of Terra prepared a mighty weapon to strike at the Eye of Terror itself. No one knew how such a weapon was made, the creators refusing to share their collective knowledge of the warp and immaterium. After the forces of order had banished the Daemons infesting the nearby Cadian system, a million mightiest psykers and Eldar Warlocks used the power of the weapon the weave a mighty spell, that shook the very planes of existence. This psychic blast sealed the Eye of Terror for eternity, closing the terrible rupture which threated all living things in the galaxy.

By this great victory, the Emperor had finally completed mankind's destiny, and allowed his race to prosper in the galaxy. The Orks were destroyed slowly but surely, Mankind eradicating the creation of the Old Ones with the help of Eldar, and thus ending the threat they possessed. The Eldar warned mankind of the Necrons, and they were never waken up from their eternal slumber. The Tyranids were repelled, after an excruciating war, which cost countless lives.

In the end, the mighty Astartes were not required to defend anymore, since no major threats existed in the galaxy. They became increasingly rare, their numbers dwindling over the millenia and finally becaming non-existent. Their ancient valor and glories won on distant battles became legends, passed from one generation to the next. The Imperial Guard took their place, and tried to take the example of these brave warriors to heart.

I know some things were pretty out there, but this is what I think would have happened.

I agree with that but im not entirely sure about the sealing of the eye of terror... The machanicum would need allot of persuading to abandon their dogma on technology. Im also not entirely sure the Emperor (who makes it quite clear he wants to eradicate xenos) would ally with the eldar.

As for what becomes of the SMs after the crusade, I think "A Thousand Sons" offers a good glimpse. Some would obviously still be maintained to wage war but most would go on to use their super-human abilities to help humanity by becoming teachers, architects, scientists ect. (like Arihman being an expert at making wine)

**Orblivion**

Small, Far Away wrote:I am of the opinion that after the invasion of the Milky Way, the Emperor would have moved on to Andromeda and Triangulum.

I agree, there is nothing to indicate that the Emperor would have been satisfied with conquering the Milky Way. I assume that in the event of the Grand Crusade achieving it's goal, the Emperor would have started investigating the possibility of traveling to distant galaxies to take them over as well.

**im2randomghgh**

Orblivion wrote:
Small, Far Away wrote:I am of the opinion that after the invasion of the Milky Way, the Emperor would have moved on to Andromeda and Triangulum.

I agree, there is nothing to indicate that the Emperor would have been satisfied with conquering the Milky Way. I assume that in the event of the Grand Crusade achieving it's goal, the Emperor would have started investigating the possibility of traveling to distant galaxies to take them over as well.

Except Andromeda isn't close, even for a galaxy

**Battle Brother Ambrosius**

vodo40k wrote:
Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:I have waited looong time for a thread like this.

First of all, Wh40k would be less "grimdark". Here are the results of my brainstorm and fanmade writing.

After the galaxy was conquered be the Emperor, he saw the threat of Chaos. He understood that mankind needed to destroy its corrupting influence, for he had been told by Horus about the treasonous chaplain Erebus his son had executed after he tried to convert him to chaos. His citizens were already introduced to the Imperial Truth, freeing them from the chains of religion, and the Gods of Chaos were getting weaker and weaker, with no one left to hear their empty promises.

He made an agreement with the Eldar, that prevented the participants from attacking each other. He saw them as effective tools to aid mankind in its quest. He then proceeded to collect all the other remaining technological artefacts in order to make more effective warmachines and improve civilian things also, in the form of education, health care etc.

All was changed when the techpriests found a working STC from the Agri-world of Colthan. It had been partly buried under the ground, until a visiting Magos Biologis had spotted it. The Imperium experienced a technological revolution, achieving its zenite position once again. The Emperor's dream and great work were now complete, ready to return humankind to greatness once again.

With the help of the Eldar, the scientists of Terra prepared a mighty weapon to strike at the Eye of Terror itself. No one knew how such a weapon was made, the creators refusing to share their collective knowledge of the warp and immaterium. After the forces of order had banished the Daemons infesting the nearby Cadian system, a million mightiest psykers and Eldar Warlocks used the power of the weapon the weave a mighty spell, that shook the very planes of existence. This psychic blast sealed the Eye of Terror for eternity, closing the terrible rupture which threated all living things in the galaxy.

By this great victory, the Emperor had finally completed mankind's destiny, and allowed his race to prosper in the galaxy. The Orks were destroyed slowly but surely, Mankind eradicating the creation of the Old Ones with the help of Eldar, and thus ending the threat they possessed. The Eldar warned mankind of the Necrons, and they were never waken up from their eternal slumber. The Tyranids were repelled, after an excruciating war, which cost countless lives.

In the end, the mighty Astartes were not required to defend anymore, since no major threats existed in the galaxy. They became increasingly rare, their numbers dwindling over the millenia and finally becaming non-existent. Their ancient valor and glories won on distant battles became legends, passed from one generation to the next. The Imperial Guard took their place, and tried to take the example of these brave warriors to heart.

I know some things were pretty out there, but this is what I think would have happened.

I agree with that but im not entirely sure about the sealing of the eye of terror... The machanicum would need allot of persuading to abandon their dogma on technology. Im also not entirely sure the Emperor (who makes it quite clear he wants to eradicate xenos) would ally with the eldar.

As for what becomes of the SMs after the crusade, I think "A Thousand Sons" offers a good glimpse. Some would obviously still be maintained to wage war but most would go on to use their super-human abilities to help humanity by becoming teachers, architects, scientists ect. (like Arihman being an expert at making wine)

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.

I am not absolutely sure, but I think the Emperor did not want to eradicate all xenos, just keep them under control. The Eldar COULD be reasoned with, so the Emperor might tolerate them (maybe not ally with them but still).

The Mechanicum would be a tough nut to crack, but I think that over many centuries they would secularize a bit, and start inventing new technology.

And I like the idea of Marines becoming teachers and such. That could also be very possible.

**Corporal_Reznov**

im2randomghgh wrote:
Also, considering the Eldar originally wanted peace but the first meeting was between them and a corrupted primarch, they may have been allies of the humans. With that much allied force, nothing in the galaxy would really be capable of standing before them.

They may even have the Tau on their side.

The only things in the galaxy that would even be mildly threatening would be Necrons and Tyranids, but with 100% of the Imperium, Eldar, and Tau ready to deploy, the Tyranids may very well be outnumbered.

The Tau are useless in this situation seeing as humanity would be far more advanced in tech and if Eldar and Humanity allying together would be utterly beyond the Tau so the entire race and their agenda is irrelevant.

Orblivion wrote:
Small, Far Away wrote:I am of the opinion that after the invasion of the Milky Way, the Emperor would have moved on to Andromeda and Triangulum.

I agree, there is nothing to indicate that the Emperor would have been satisfied with conquering the Milky Way. I assume that in the event of the Grand Crusade achieving it's goal, the Emperor would have started investigating the possibility of traveling to distant galaxies to take them over as well.

Where is the evidence that the Emp is obsessed with conquest? The Emp's stated goal is the protection of the human race and making humanity powerful not conquest. Also, there is no point in trying to bother with such a idea seeing as there are no humans in the other galaxy, 40k FTL is so far not capable of that kind of travel so again another point against such an endeavor. Infact going to another galaxy would probably only lead to more war with Orks seeing as its probable that the Orks have somehow managed to go to other galaxies.

Next, about the Emp and eradicating xenos. Again we have no facts about the Emp's true goals other than he wanted to unite humanty, protect humanity, try and kill the Chaos gods, search for the STC's and thats all. What he planned with the alien races is contradictory. We have Administratum of that period thinking of giving a protectorate status to Xenos, Horus negotiating with the Interex and he was Warmaster at the time, right? And yet actions done by the other Primarchs killing Xeno that seem to be done on their own seeing as the Emp didn't give them orders, again I could be wrong as I haven't really read the HH series.

I really wish the HH series would have a novel where we can finally find out a bit of the Emperor's long term plans and what he thinks of Xenos.

**DeffDred**

The final shot fired, the Emperor turns to Horus... "Looks like we're done here, buddy".

Magnus is put in the golden throne. Dorn becomes the Judge of the Supreme Galactic Court. Logar spreads the glory of the Emperor. Russ patrols the stars waiting for other astartes to screw up.
Mortarion and Curze sit back and discuss the future of the Imperium. Angron becomes the High Executioner for the Galactic Court. Pert begins the mass renovation of the Imperium.
Corax writes poetry while Fulgrim writes plays. Khan breeds horses on Terra. Sangunius and Vulkan patrol the edges of the Milky Way for outside threats. Ferrus takes contol of the Ad Mech.
Alpherius/Omegan become the Jury of the Galactic Court. The Lion travels the webways, guarding it against unauthorized entry. Horus and Gully sit as the new heads of the Imperial Democracy.

The Emperor reveals his grand plan! The human race venerates him as a god and he is reborn in the Warp as the only god within. Humanity uses the throne that turns people into psykers (see the sisters novel) so that all humans are alpha level psykers who use the power of the Emperor. Once all of humanity is uber the marines become overly mass produced to the point where the Astartes are the Slaves of the new Human way.

Then the Crons wake up. And the Nids arrive. All hell breaks loose.

**im2randomghgh**

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Also, considering the Eldar originally wanted peace but the first meeting was between them and a corrupted primarch, they may have been allies of the humans. With that much allied force, nothing in the galaxy would really be capable of standing before them.

They may even have the Tau on their side.

The only things in the galaxy that would even be mildly threatening would be Necrons and Tyranids, but with 100% of the Imperium, Eldar, and Tau ready to deploy, the Tyranids may very well be outnumbered.

The Tau are useless in this situation seeing as humanity would be far more advanced in tech and if Eldar and Humanity allying together would be utterly beyond the Tau so the entire race and their agenda is irrelevant.

Orblivion wrote:
Small, Far Away wrote:I am of the opinion that after the invasion of the Milky Way, the Emperor would have moved on to Andromeda and Triangulum.

I agree, there is nothing to indicate that the Emperor would have been satisfied with conquering the Milky Way. I assume that in the event of the Grand Crusade achieving it's goal, the Emperor would have started investigating the possibility of traveling to distant galaxies to take them over as well.
Where is the evidence that the Emp is obsessed with conquest? The Emp's stated goal is the protection of the human race and making humanity powerful not conquest. Also, there is no point in trying to bother with such a idea seeing as there are no humans in the other galaxy, 40k FTL is so far not capable of that kind of travel so again another point against such an endeavor. Infact going to another galaxy would probably only lead to more war with Orks seeing as its probable that the Orks have somehow managed to go to other galaxies.

Next, about the Emp and eradicating xenos. Again we have no facts about the Emp's true goals other than he wanted to unite humanty, protect humanity, try and kill the Chaos gods, search for the STC's and thats all. What he planned with the alien races is contradictory. We have Administratum of that period thinking of giving a protectorate status to Xenos, Horus negotiating with the Interex and he was Warmaster at the time, right? And yet actions done by the other Primarchs killing Xeno that seem to be done on their own seeing as the Emp didn't give them orders, again I could be wrong as I haven't really read the HH series.

I really wish the HH series would have a novel where we can finally find out a bit of the Emperor's long term plans and what he thinks of Xenos.

I can't see extragalactic orks. The only races I can see outside of the milky way are tyranids, since they are known for sure as being extra-galactic and have been stated as having destroyed galaxies before, the Necrontyr having the best FTL travel of any race by far and being the most resistant to natural conditions of any race due to being DEAD or as-of-yet unencountered species.

**vodo40k**

im2randomghgh wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Also, considering the Eldar originally wanted peace but the first meeting was between them and a corrupted primarch, they may have been allies of the humans. With that much allied force, nothing in the galaxy would really be capable of standing before them.

They may even have the Tau on their side.

The only things in the galaxy that would even be mildly threatening would be Necrons and Tyranids, but with 100% of the Imperium, Eldar, and Tau ready to deploy, the Tyranids may very well be outnumbered.

The Tau are useless in this situation seeing as humanity would be far more advanced in tech and if Eldar and Humanity allying together would be utterly beyond the Tau so the entire race and their agenda is irrelevant.

Orblivion wrote:
Small, Far Away wrote:I am of the opinion that after the invasion of the Milky Way, the Emperor would have moved on to Andromeda and Triangulum.

I agree, there is nothing to indicate that the Emperor would have been satisfied with conquering the Milky Way. I assume that in the event of the Grand Crusade achieving it's goal, the Emperor would have started investigating the possibility of traveling to distant galaxies to take them over as well.
Where is the evidence that the Emp is obsessed with conquest? The Emp's stated goal is the protection of the human race and making humanity powerful not conquest. Also, there is no point in trying to bother with such a idea seeing as there are no humans in the other galaxy, 40k FTL is so far not capable of that kind of travel so again another point against such an endeavor. Infact going to another galaxy would probably only lead to more war with Orks seeing as its probable that the Orks have somehow managed to go to other galaxies.

Next, about the Emp and eradicating xenos. Again we have no facts about the Emp's true goals other than he wanted to unite humanty, protect humanity, try and kill the Chaos gods, search for the STC's and thats all. What he planned with the alien races is contradictory. We have Administratum of that period thinking of giving a protectorate status to Xenos, Horus negotiating with the Interex and he was Warmaster at the time, right? And yet actions done by the other Primarchs killing Xeno that seem to be done on their own seeing as the Emp didn't give them orders, again I could be wrong as I haven't really read the HH series.

I really wish the HH series would have a novel where we can finally find out a bit of the Emperor's long term plans and what he thinks of Xenos.

I can't see extragalactic orks. The only races I can see outside of the milky way are tyranids, since they are known for sure as being extra-galactic and have been stated as having destroyed galaxies before, the Necrontyr having the best FTL travel of any race by far and being the most resistant to natural conditions of any race due to being DEAD or as-of-yet unencountered species.

Yea the only thing your going to find at andromida is a galaxy stripped clean of life by the nids.

**BrainDeleted**

Durza wrote:
BrainDeleted wrote:The whole point of this threat is that the Great Crusade would have been completed. Your argument is invalid. War may feed Khorne pretty nicely but the eventual goal was peace. Peace ≠ Good for Chaos. They stopped the Great Crusade for a reason.....

Yeah, because Horus killed the Emperor. What's your point?

Uh, they in my post was referring to the Chaos Gods, not the Imperium or whatever you think....Guess it was a little unclear........THEY conspired to stop the great crusade and kill the Emperor because, obviously, his efforts war or otherwise were not making them feel all wholesome inside.

**LumenPraebeo**

Here's how I think it will happen.

Lorgar's Legion doesn't fall to chaos. After many months of speculation and depression, Lorgar emerges again, chastised, but still convinced of his beliefs. Kor Phaeron and others of his kind were executed swiftly for heresy and treason. The Great Crusade continued for a few more years after the discovery of the Auretian Technocracy, who joined with the Imperium of man peacefully. Fighting and Expeditions continued at a smaller pace as few remaining human colonies were still being found. Astartes were seperated into chapters as it is in the fluff due to the need of more mobile and smaller forces to deal with problems. Some Astartes have taken to expanding their skills in other area's. Magnus was placed on the golden throne and powered the webway, gaining infinite knowledge and learning each day. The other Primarchs are given leave to do what they wanted. Some settled down in the Sol system to help rule the empire of man, others retired to their homeworlds to govern their people and neighboring sectors. Others took to the stars to fight new wars in the Emperor's name. After several cultist incident's, an inquisition agency was started to counter threats from psyker's and creatures of unknown origin. The Chaos forces, although greatly weakened, find a new race to feed upon, and thus expand and become powerful enough to once again endanger the holdings of mankind, resulting in the Imperium launching full scale war against this tainted xeno's race. Lorgar's faith and work of the Lectitio Divinitatus slowly spreads and expands, until it appears in the open. Unable to quell the rise of this religion based on the divinity of himself, the Emperor founds a new organisation of religious purpose to monitor this religion and make sure it doesn't spread into cultist-like acts. The Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, and Eldar continue to be a threat against humanity, but mankind remains strong, slowly expanding ever onwards into the stars, lead by the strong government built by the Primarch's and their ever present and faithful servant's, the Adeptus Astartes.

**Vermillion**

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
Vermillion wrote:
And 40k I think was grimdark preheresy setting too. The mention of earth as a wasteland, all the forge planets, hive worlds and so on. Aside from the whole "Worship the Emprah heathen humans!" part we have now it sounds akin to what we have now. Plus the whole bureaucracy was starting too with the high lords.

Yes it was a hellhole caused by the disaster known as the Age of Strife. Your point?

Point being with the beginnings setting up it would still be a hell hole and grim dark "each person is but a cog in the IoM uncared for" and so on as it is now.

**Luna Dragon**

LumenPraebeo wrote:Here's how I think it will happen.

Lorgar's Legion doesn't fall to chaos. After many months of speculation and depression, Lorgar emerges again, chastised, but still convinced of his beliefs. Kor Phaeron and others of his kind were executed swiftly for heresy and treason. The Great Crusade continued for a few more years after the discovery of the Auretian Technocracy, who joined with the Imperium of man peacefully. Fighting and Expeditions continued at a smaller pace as few remaining human colonies were still being found. Astartes were seperated into chapters as it is in the fluff due to the need of more mobile and smaller forces to deal with problems. Some Astartes have taken to expanding their skills in other area's. Magnus was placed on the golden throne and powered the webway, gaining infinite knowledge and learning each day. The other Primarchs are given leave to do what they wanted. Some settled down in the Sol system to help rule the empire of man, others retired to their homeworlds to govern their people and neighboring sectors. Others took to the stars to fight new wars in the Emperor's name. After several cultist incident's, an inquisition agency was started to counter threats from psyker's and creatures of unknown origin. The Chaos forces, although greatly weakened, find a new race to feed upon, and thus expand and become powerful enough to once again endanger the holdings of mankind, resulting in the Imperium launching full scale war against this tainted xeno's race. Lorgar's faith and work of the Lectitio Divinitatus slowly spreads and expands, until it appears in the open. Unable to quell the rise of this religion based on the divinity of himself, the Emperor founds a new organisation of religious purpose to monitor this religion and make sure it doesn't spread into cultist-like acts. The Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, and Eldar continue to be a threat against humanity, but mankind remains strong, slowly expanding ever onwards into the stars, lead by the strong government built by the Primarch's and their ever present and faithful servant's, the Adeptus Astartes.

Best idea yet on this. (That I know of)

**im2randomghgh**

Vermillion wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:
Vermillion wrote:
And 40k I think was grimdark preheresy setting too. The mention of earth as a wasteland, all the forge planets, hive worlds and so on. Aside from the whole "Worship the Emprah heathen humans!" part we have now it sounds akin to what we have now. Plus the whole bureaucracy was starting too with the high lords.

Yes it was a hellhole caused by the disaster known as the Age of Strife. Your point?

Point being with the beginnings setting up it would still be a hell hole and grim dark "each person is but a cog in the IoM uncared for" and so on as it is now.

Except that the Imperium as it is today is entirely because the Emperor cannot rule. While he was ruling, it was an enlightened age.

The High Lords wouldn't be worth gak if they weren't the voice of the big E.

**Asherian Command**

check the DAT on 40k Fanon might prove an interesting read

**Corporal_Reznov**

im2randomghgh wrote:
I can't see extragalactic orks. The only races I can see outside of the milky way are tyranids, since they are known for sure as being extra-galactic and have been stated as having destroyed galaxies before, the Necrontyr having the best FTL travel of any race by far and being the most resistant to natural conditions of any race due to being DEAD or as-of-yet unencountered species.

The Orks have been rampaging across the galaxy for millions of years, the warp extends across the universe. Its not impossible for the Orks to have somehow managed to get to other galaxies and so what if the Nids have eaten some galaxies. Do you know how many galaxies there are in the universe?

**im2randomghgh**

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
I can't see extragalactic orks. The only races I can see outside of the milky way are tyranids, since they are known for sure as being extra-galactic and have been stated as having destroyed galaxies before, the Necrontyr having the best FTL travel of any race by far and being the most resistant to natural conditions of any race due to being DEAD or as-of-yet unencountered species.

The Orks have been rampaging across the galaxy for millions of years, the warp extends across the universe. Its not impossible for the Orks to have somehow managed to get to other galaxies and so what if the Nids have eaten some galaxies. Do you know how many galaxies there are in the universe?

You think an ork would spend generations of not-fighting just for territory where it wouldn't fight anything?

And other than necrons and nids, no FTL travel is plausible between galaxies. The chance of the Orks landing in a galaxy even if they did set off would be unimaginably low.

And we don't know how many galaxies the Nids have nom'd. For all we know the Milky Way could be the only one that still harbors life. Hell, for all we know they could secretly be the alpha legion. Or the Enslavers being sneaky. Or the Hive mind could be Malal.

There is just so little info about their origins.

**Corporal_Reznov**

im2randomghgh wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
I can't see extragalactic orks. The only races I can see outside of the milky way are tyranids, since they are known for sure as being extra-galactic and have been stated as having destroyed galaxies before, the Necrontyr having the best FTL travel of any race by far and being the most resistant to natural conditions of any race due to being DEAD or as-of-yet unencountered species.

The Orks have been rampaging across the galaxy for millions of years, the warp extends across the universe. Its not impossible for the Orks to have somehow managed to get to other galaxies and so what if the Nids have eaten some galaxies. Do you know how many galaxies there are in the universe?

You think an ork would spend generations of not-fighting just for territory where it wouldn't fight anything?

And other than necrons and nids, no FTL travel is plausible between galaxies. The chance of the Orks landing in a galaxy even if they did set off would be unimaginably low.

And we don't know how many galaxies the Nids have nom'd. For all we know the Milky Way could be the only one that still harbors life. Hell, for all we know they could secretly be the alpha legion. Or the Enslavers being sneaky. Or the Hive mind could be Malal.

There is just so little info about their origins.

There are Orks in Space hulks fighting the creatures of the Space Hulks and each other. It may be possible that some Space Hulks make it to other galaxies or even in the middle of empty space between galaxies, doesn't matter to the Orks they keep fighting each other. I agree its low but not implausible with a time period of millions of years. As for the Nids, you're right we don't know anything about them so we should just stop talking about them when it comes to Extragalactic Orks.

**Brother Coa**

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Do you know how many galaxies there are in the universe?

I can help you with that...take sport arena ( any basketball arena ), now take a pease. Now fill entire arena with pease from the bottom to the top. According to scientist today that's roughly 80 - 90% of the galaxies in universe today. ( total number of pease that filled the arena )

**im2randomghgh**

Brother Coa wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:Do you know how many galaxies there are in the universe?

I can help you with that...take sport arena ( any basketball arena ), now take a pease. Now fill entire arena with pease from the bottom to the top. According to scientist today that's roughly 80 - 90% of the galaxies in universe today. ( total number of pease that filled the arena )

170 billion

**Asherian Command**

im2randomghgh wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:Do you know how many galaxies there are in the universe?

I can help you with that...take sport arena ( any basketball arena ), now take a pease. Now fill entire arena with pease from the bottom to the top. According to scientist today that's roughly 80 - 90% of the galaxies in universe today. ( total number of pease that filled the arena )

170 billion

A little bit more.
I like this time line.
http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/%22Defiance%22_Time-Line_%28DAT%29

**Corporal_Reznov**

Brother Coa wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:Do you know how many galaxies there are in the universe?

I can help you with that...take sport arena ( any basketball arena ), now take a pease. Now fill entire arena with pease from the bottom to the top. According to scientist today that's roughly 80 - 90% of the galaxies in universe today. ( total number of pease that filled the arena )

What the hell is a pease? My 'question' was rhetorical is response to im2randomghgh saying that Nids could have eaten all the galaxies in the universe so I said how many galaxies are there in the universe.

im2randomghgh wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:Do you know how many galaxies there are in the universe?

I can help you with that...take sport arena ( any basketball arena ), now take a pease. Now fill entire arena with pease from the bottom to the top. According to scientist today that's roughly 80 - 90% of the galaxies in universe today. ( total number of pease that filled the arena )

170 billion

Which makes the very idea of the Nids eating all the galaxies in the universe preposterous.

**im2randomghgh**

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
I can't see extragalactic orks. The only races I can see outside of the milky way are tyranids, since they are known for sure as being extra-galactic and have been stated as having destroyed galaxies before, the Necrontyr having the best FTL travel of any race by far and being the most resistant to natural conditions of any race due to being DEAD or as-of-yet unencountered species.

The Orks have been rampaging across the galaxy for millions of years, the warp extends across the universe. Its not impossible for the Orks to have somehow managed to get to other galaxies and so what if the Nids have eaten some galaxies. Do you know how many galaxies there are in the universe?

You think an ork would spend generations of not-fighting just for territory where it wouldn't fight anything?

And other than necrons and nids, no FTL travel is plausible between galaxies. The chance of the Orks landing in a galaxy even if they did set off would be unimaginably low.

And we don't know how many galaxies the Nids have nom'd. For all we know the Milky Way could be the only one that still harbors life. Hell, for all we know they could secretly be the alpha legion. Or the Enslavers being sneaky. Or the Hive mind could be Malal.

There is just so little info about their origins.
There are Orks in Space hulks fighting the creatures of the Space Hulks and each other. It may be possible that some Space Hulks make it to other galaxies or even in the middle of empty space between galaxies, doesn't matter to the Orks they keep fighting each other. I agree its low but not implausible with a time period of millions of years. As for the Nids, you're right we don't know anything about them so we should just stop talking about them when it comes to Extragalactic Orks.

Just drifting lazily through the universe the chance of encountering a galaxy is so small as to be unworthy of considering. The chances are somewhere along the lines of you going to the store everyday and buying tickets to every single different lottery they have there, and winning the jackpot, and doing it every single day for the rest of your life.

Similar to your chances of spontaneously transforming into a giant firebird named steven who likes to eat wooly mammoths and gets depressed that they are all extinct then transforming back.

**Corporal_Reznov**

im2randomghgh wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
I can't see extragalactic orks. The only races I can see outside of the milky way are tyranids, since they are known for sure as being extra-galactic and have been stated as having destroyed galaxies before, the Necrontyr having the best FTL travel of any race by far and being the most resistant to natural conditions of any race due to being DEAD or as-of-yet unencountered species.

The Orks have been rampaging across the galaxy for millions of years, the warp extends across the universe. Its not impossible for the Orks to have somehow managed to get to other galaxies and so what if the Nids have eaten some galaxies. Do you know how many galaxies there are in the universe?

You think an ork would spend generations of not-fighting just for territory where it wouldn't fight anything?

And other than necrons and nids, no FTL travel is plausible between galaxies. The chance of the Orks landing in a galaxy even if they did set off would be unimaginably low.

And we don't know how many galaxies the Nids have nom'd. For all we know the Milky Way could be the only one that still harbors life. Hell, for all we know they could secretly be the alpha legion. Or the Enslavers being sneaky. Or the Hive mind could be Malal.

There is just so little info about their origins.
There are Orks in Space hulks fighting the creatures of the Space Hulks and each other. It may be possible that some Space Hulks make it to other galaxies or even in the middle of empty space between galaxies, doesn't matter to the Orks they keep fighting each other. I agree its low but not implausible with a time period of millions of years. As for the Nids, you're right we don't know anything about them so we should just stop talking about them when it comes to Extragalactic Orks.

Just drifting lazily through the universe the chance of encountering a galaxy is so small as to be unworthy of considering. The chances are somewhere along the lines of you going to the store everyday and buying tickets to every single different lottery they have there, and winning the jackpot, and doing it every single day for the rest of your life.

Similar to your chances of spontaneously transforming into a giant firebird named steven who likes to eat wooly mammoths and gets depressed that they are all extinct then transforming back.

Its just speculation. Plus we are talking about the Orks here. A race whose tech only works cause they think it works, I wouldn't count them out that quickly.

**Brother Coa**

im2randomghgh wrote:
170 billion

???
Were did you get that number?

Oh I see, well that's the ones we can see so far... and what about the ones we can't?

**tigonesskay**

I often wondered, if the emperor was building a webway through the warp, HOW was he a threat to chaos?
I think the emperor, knew the true threat chaos was, and that's
Why he tried to keep humanity atheist. If the emperor knew this he should of told Logar before chaos got to him and twisted the facts. But some of the legions would of rebelled anyway, ( The Night Lords, World Eaters,) Because their primarchs were unstable to begin with. Some legions would of had some civil war in fighting, especially if the emperor decided to disband them, and divide them into smaller chapters as the crusade comes to an end.

**im2randomghgh**

tigonesskay wrote:I often wondered, if the emperor was building a webway through the warp, HOW was he a threat to chaos?
I think the emperor, knew the true threat chaos was, and that's
Why he tried to keep humanity atheist. If the emperor knew this he should of told Logar before chaos got to him and twisted the facts. But some of the legions would of rebelled anyway, ( The Night Lords, World Eaters,) Because their primarchs were unstable to begin with. Some legions would of had some civil war in fighting, especially if the emperor decided to disband them, and divide them into smaller chapters as the crusade comes to an end.

He was a threat to Chaos because his atheism was hurting them. Hurting them bad. Without worship, they were weakening. If they had waited, the Empy would have been able to stroll up on into the warp and un-chaos-ify it, because they would be THAT weak.

And two legions betraying him would just be a ripple in the pond. Don't forget, he had already unmade two legions by then.

**Corporal_Reznov**

im2randomghgh wrote:
tigonesskay wrote:I often wondered, if the emperor was building a webway through the warp, HOW was he a threat to chaos?
I think the emperor, knew the true threat chaos was, and that's
Why he tried to keep humanity atheist. If the emperor knew this he should of told Logar before chaos got to him and twisted the facts. But some of the legions would of rebelled anyway, ( The Night Lords, World Eaters,) Because their primarchs were unstable to begin with. Some legions would of had some civil war in fighting, especially if the emperor decided to disband them, and divide them into smaller chapters as the crusade comes to an end.

He was a threat to Chaos because his atheism was hurting them. Hurting them bad. Without worship, they were weakening. If they had waited, the Empy would have been able to stroll up on into the warp and un-chaos-ify it, because they would be THAT weak.

And two legions betraying him would just be a ripple in the pond. Don't forget, he had already unmade two legions by then.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315079]Birth of the Chaos gods redux says otherwise.

There is two fundamental problem with the theory that faith keeps the Chaos gods alive. One] Slaanesh was not born from faith but debauchery. Two] The Cabal claim to have fought Chaos for millions of years or something like that which brings up the question that if the gods of Chaos need faith of galactic sized to stay alive. Who was praying to them?

**UselessSage**

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
I can't see extragalactic orks. The only races I can see outside of the milky way are tyranids, since they are known for sure as being extra-galactic and have been stated as having destroyed galaxies before, the Necrontyr having the best FTL travel of any race by far and being the most resistant to natural conditions of any race due to being DEAD or as-of-yet unencountered species.

The Orks have been rampaging across the galaxy for millions of years, the warp extends across the universe. Its not impossible for the Orks to have somehow managed to get to other galaxies and so what if the Nids have eaten some galaxies. Do you know how many galaxies there are in the universe?

You think an ork would spend generations of not-fighting just for territory where it wouldn't fight anything?

And other than necrons and nids, no FTL travel is plausible between galaxies. The chance of the Orks landing in a galaxy even if they did set off would be unimaginably low.

And we don't know how many galaxies the Nids have nom'd. For all we know the Milky Way could be the only one that still harbors life. Hell, for all we know they could secretly be the alpha legion. Or the Enslavers being sneaky. Or the Hive mind could be Malal.

There is just so little info about their origins.
There are Orks in Space hulks fighting the creatures of the Space Hulks and each other. It may be possible that some Space Hulks make it to other galaxies or even in the middle of empty space between galaxies, doesn't matter to the Orks they keep fighting each other. I agree its low but not implausible with a time period of millions of years. As for the Nids, you're right we don't know anything about them so we should just stop talking about them when it comes to Extragalactic Orks.

Just drifting lazily through the universe the chance of encountering a galaxy is so small as to be unworthy of considering. The chances are somewhere along the lines of you going to the store everyday and buying tickets to every single different lottery they have there, and winning the jackpot, and doing it every single day for the rest of your life.

Similar to your chances of spontaneously transforming into a giant firebird named steven who likes to eat wooly mammoths and gets depressed that they are all extinct then transforming back.

Its just speculation. Plus we are talking about the Orks here. A race whose tech only works cause they think it works, I wouldn't count them out that quickly.

Just a bit of mental flatulence:

Our enthusiastic fungoid friends have been been looting shinny things for quite a while.
After looting something they mostly break it pretty good, but once in a great while it works.
Once in a great, great while the looted device works in ways never intended or even imagined by the device's original creators.
I can imagine that at some points the MekBoyz got to play with some looted Necronder toys.
Anyone want to bet where at any point in spacetime a MekBoy playing with a Necron FTL drive could not potentially (however unlikely) reappear?

**im2randomghgh**

UselessSage wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
I can't see extragalactic orks. The only races I can see outside of the milky way are tyranids, since they are known for sure as being extra-galactic and have been stated as having destroyed galaxies before, the Necrontyr having the best FTL travel of any race by far and being the most resistant to natural conditions of any race due to being DEAD or as-of-yet unencountered species.

The Orks have been rampaging across the galaxy for millions of years, the warp extends across the universe. Its not impossible for the Orks to have somehow managed to get to other galaxies and so what if the Nids have eaten some galaxies. Do you know how many galaxies there are in the universe?

You think an ork would spend generations of not-fighting just for territory where it wouldn't fight anything?

And other than necrons and nids, no FTL travel is plausible between galaxies. The chance of the Orks landing in a galaxy even if they did set off would be unimaginably low.

And we don't know how many galaxies the Nids have nom'd. For all we know the Milky Way could be the only one that still harbors life. Hell, for all we know they could secretly be the alpha legion. Or the Enslavers being sneaky. Or the Hive mind could be Malal.

There is just so little info about their origins.
There are Orks in Space hulks fighting the creatures of the Space Hulks and each other. It may be possible that some Space Hulks make it to other galaxies or even in the middle of empty space between galaxies, doesn't matter to the Orks they keep fighting each other. I agree its low but not implausible with a time period of millions of years. As for the Nids, you're right we don't know anything about them so we should just stop talking about them when it comes to Extragalactic Orks.

Just drifting lazily through the universe the chance of encountering a galaxy is so small as to be unworthy of considering. The chances are somewhere along the lines of you going to the store everyday and buying tickets to every single different lottery they have there, and winning the jackpot, and doing it every single day for the rest of your life.

Similar to your chances of spontaneously transforming into a giant firebird named steven who likes to eat wooly mammoths and gets depressed that they are all extinct then transforming back.

Its just speculation. Plus we are talking about the Orks here. A race whose tech only works cause they think it works, I wouldn't count them out that quickly.

Just a bit of mental flatulence:

Our enthusiastic fungoid friends have been been looting shinny things for quite a while.
After looting something they mostly break it pretty good, but once in a great while it works.
Once in a great, great while the looted device works in ways never intended or even imagined by the device's original creators.
I can imagine that at some points the MekBoyz got to play with some looted Necronder toys.
Anyone want to bet where at any point in spacetime a MekBoy playing with a Necron FTL drive could not potentially (however unlikely) reappear?

The necrons are only just awakening tho...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
tigonesskay wrote:I often wondered, if the emperor was building a webway through the warp, HOW was he a threat to chaos?
I think the emperor, knew the true threat chaos was, and that's
Why he tried to keep humanity atheist. If the emperor knew this he should of told Logar before chaos got to him and twisted the facts. But some of the legions would of rebelled anyway, ( The Night Lords, World Eaters,) Because their primarchs were unstable to begin with. Some legions would of had some civil war in fighting, especially if the emperor decided to disband them, and divide them into smaller chapters as the crusade comes to an end.

He was a threat to Chaos because his atheism was hurting them. Hurting them bad. Without worship, they were weakening. If they had waited, the Empy would have been able to stroll up on into the warp and un-chaos-ify it, because they would be THAT weak.

And two legions betraying him would just be a ripple in the pond. Don't forget, he had already unmade two legions by then.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315079]Birth of the Chaos gods redux says otherwise.

There is two fundamental problem with the theory that faith keeps the Chaos gods alive. One] Slaanesh was not born from faith but debauchery. Two] The Cabal claim to have fought Chaos for millions of years or something like that which brings up the question that if the gods of Chaos need faith of galactic sized to stay alive. Who was praying to them?

It doesn't keep them alive, it keeps them strong. Remember that they were all in "hibernation" before humanity came along. Khorne was the first to awaken, and he did come around until our middle ages.

**CpatTom**

Note: contains theories and conjecture based off of logic and evidence.

Strong theories exist that the Orks have been around since the first time the Necron's were awake. They were the Korks (or some such nonsense then. Created alongside the Eldar by the Old Ones, etc), and while not definitive (because, well, it is 40k) its a strong enough link for me to entertain the idea that the Orks have had plenty of time to exist just about anywhere in time/space.

Edit: No hibernation, just the great game. Chaos cant be bothered with the ephemeral material realm when they have so much going on in the warp.
Eldar, more or less, created chaos as we understand it today being the first wide spread psychic race. Immaterium (original state of the warp) was peaceful and easily traveled. Old Ones created the Eldar who disturbed the Immaterium creating the warp state it is now.

I think of it as an ocean. One or two little swimmers dont change the ocean. An IoM of little swimmers all going different directions causes a mess of currents (The greatest of which, the ones with the most disturbances in their favor are the Chaos Gods). Now it is of little importance to a current who the swimmers are creating it, just as long as they keep doing what they are doing. At least thats how I get it.

Double Edit: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Old_Ones#.TpMJUJuIk8k Because google is hard to use.