Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

There are reasons the price is higher, yes the material is cheaper but it takes about four times as long to make a model compared to either plastic or metal, so one group of workers can not make nearly as many as before. So they must hire and pay more workers so that they are making enough, and maybe even build or buy more factories. This all costs a lot of money plus detail on resin is much crisper then on plastic and metal, this also demands a slightly higher price. So i feel the prices are perfectly reasonable for the amount of money it takes to make them. And just my opinion on the 'GW is going to go out of business' argument, i think that since they took the time to make resin and hire more workers and take this step means they are confident that they will remain strong in future years. This is all very basic economics very easy to figure out if you do some research.

Namica wrote:I am the 99%!

(is what these threads always sound like, price raising is basic economics, don't like them doing it, stop buying the products. less demand = lower prices)

Yep Because protesting against massive corporate greed and the increasing hold the rich have over politics is exactly the same as this.... FP

Drayzero wrote:There are reasons the price is higher, yes the material is cheaper but it takes about four times as long to make a model compared to either plastic or metal, so one group of workers can not make nearly as many as before. So they must hire and pay more workers so that they are making enough, and maybe even build or buy more factories. This all costs a lot of money plus detail on resin is much crisper then on plastic and metal, this also demands a slightly higher price. So i feel the prices are perfectly reasonable for the amount of money it takes to make them. And just my opinion on the 'GW is going to go out of business' argument, i think that since they took the time to make resin and hire more workers and take this step means they are confident that they will remain strong in future years. This is all very basic economics very easy to figure out if you do some research.

Amazing how smaller companies are managing to pass on the basic economic benefits of switching to plastic resins to the consumer but somehow GW need to employ more people.
The improved detail as already noted is a red herring
GW will not be going out of business any time soon all things being equal

-Loki- wrote:The issue with car sprays is you're not getting colour matched cans. I prefer army painter for this reason. Pure red is spray blood red, which is what I need, and it's a primer, not a spray paint. I've personally never had GW spray 'blob' though, it's always worked fine. I just like priming in colour.

On acrylics, I still would recommend GW foundations and their new washes. Both are absolutely fantastic. Use those and vallejo for regular paints. And for metallics, use the vallejo air range. Their metallics in that range are incredible.

'Colour matched cans' is not an issue for myself - I undercoat everything in black regardless of the final colour as I prefer to build up the layers of paint colour by colour and I prefer an overall 'darker' tone to the finished model. The car spray works just as well as a 'proper' primer. I've had some terrible issues with GW sprays in the past and I just stopped using them about 5 years ago to stick with the car sprays. Colour match shouldn't be too great a problem, as it goes, as the larger 'car stuff' outlets in the UK tend to have a range of 20+. GW Foundations are alright and the washes are the best I've struck but for metallics I still use the GW ones, for now. I'll have a look into the air range at some point but I use as little in the way of metallics on my models as possible - preference for the finished effect.

Grey Templar wrote:GW sprays are perfect when they are applied in thin layers and done at the proper distance from the model. If you are too close the paint does blob, but that's your fault.

When I first started out? Maybe, 15 years ago with my tiny can of Blood Red spray, but now? I'm sure I know the correct distances, angles & amounts to apply, yet the paint still does its best tothwart me. Temperature & humidity does affect the spray as it leaves the can so it also depends on where you live. I don't have any rooms in the house with enough ventilation for undercoating, so I always do it outside and with how variable I find GW sprays to be depending on the conditions. As I'm painting Forgeworld stuff at the moment, I will stick with what I know does work, especially with the subtle & fine details on the models which would overwise be lost, no doubt, with GW sprays - the shrinking quality is worth it, y'see.

Color matched cans are also a none issue for me.

For example, all red / orange / yellow main colors can have a brown base coat.

Yes, I would like to know why two little resin action figures cost $61. And the excuse can't be "shipping."

guyperson5 wrote:Yes, I would like to know why two little resin action figures cost $61. And the excuse can't be "shipping."

Most of GW's earnings goes towards keeping their shops up.

They need it up because its like an advertisement center.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:'Colour matched cans' is not an issue for myself - I undercoat everything in black regardless of the final colour as I prefer to build up the layers of paint colour by colour and I prefer an overall 'darker' tone to the finished model.

This is plenty dark, and was done from a bright, pure red primer (as you can see by the freshly primed, day-glo Termagants in the background). It also saved me sanity by not having to do a black undercoat, then 4 - 5 coats of red to get it consistent on about 6 models. There's no reason to start with a black primer to get a dark look. I could have gotten an even darker look by not watering down the devlan mud wash.

Again, however, this is just preference for sprays. With acrylics, you'd be insane to not take advantage of GW's foundations and washes. They really are the best you'll get.

LunaHound wrote:

guyperson5 wrote:Yes, I would like to know why two little resin action figures cost $61. And the excuse can't be "shipping."

Most of GW's earnings goes towards keeping their shops up.

They need it up because its like an advertisement center.

Everyone I know who's taken an interest in 40K within the past few years - myself included - has done so not due to the shop full of neckbeards in the strip mall, but due to licensed products like Dawn of War, Space Marine, or even the Black Library books.

-Loki- wrote:

Spoiler:

This is plenty dark, and was done from a bright, pure red primer (as you can see by the freshly primed, day-glo Termagants in the background). It also saved me sanity by not having to do a black undercoat, then 4 - 5 coats of red to get it consistent on about 6 models. There's no reason to start with a black primer to get a dark look. I could have gotten an even darker look by not watering down the devlan mud wash.

The overall effect is pretty bright, to me, but I can see what you're driving at with the shading between the limbs etc, but it's the overall result I enjoy having dark and black is a great way for me to start with & build up from. I personally paint all of my models one by one as though each were a special character or command unit - I can't paint in a 'production line' manner. It just doesn't work with me. I love building up the colour so that there are slight discrepancies from one model to another - I feel this gives each model their own character. My DKoK are, I think, a good example of this. With my Death Riders the horses gasmasks are all slightly different shades as are the hides of the mounts themselves and the leather tack. From a distance they are identical but scrutinised closely they are each slightly different shades, down to the armour plating.

What I meant with the darker tone is that when I paint the base coat of, say, a Death Riders uniform coat, I use the black spray so that the first coat is immediately darker as it has been placed on a surface that is...well...darker than the paint. If I wanted a lighter tone for the basecoat I'd go straight in with white spray, but I prefer black.

Again, however, this is just preference for sprays. With acrylics, you'd be insane to not take advantage of GW's foundations and washes. They really are the best you'll get.

Oh I absolutely agree, I use GW washes extensively. They've come on leaps and bounds since I had my first ones years ago and I can't imagine using any other companies washes. If there is one thing, one single thing, that I would recommend of the GW/Citadel range it would be the washes. Foundation paints I hardly ever use, but the washes are superb and I love 'em!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
Amazing how smaller companies are managing to pass on the basic economic benefits of switching to plastic resins to the consumer but somehow GW need to employ more people.
The improved detail as already noted is a red herring
GW will not be going out of business any time soon all things being equal

You mean those same small companies that are multi-national, that have physical stores in multiple countries across the globe, and that do international distribution as well as retail, and have thousands on their payroll? Those smaller companies?

As others have mentioned, as a large business, you have account for all of your overhead, and GW has way more than Mantic, Perry, Victrix, and PP, etc. So, they're going to charge more. GWs decision to cover drops in volume of sales by increasing prices, as also mentioned, is totally shortsighted, and will eventually bite them in the rear.

Its a shame that not all game companies can continue to be 'by gamers, for gamers', particularly publicly traded ones that are beholden to stock holders and golden parachutes.

Odd, could have sworn I saw Mantic's shares listed in the FTSE Index


Automatically Appended Next Post:

As others have mentioned, as a large business, you have account for all of your overhead, and GW has way more than Mantic, Perry, Victrix, and PP, etc. So, they're going to charge more. GWs decision to cover drops in volume of sales by increasing prices, as also mentioned, is totally shortsighted, and will eventually bite them in the rear.

Am fully aware of that but my money is still on GW pumping out more Space Marines than Perrys' Napoleonic Old Guard. So costs are spread wider reducing the costs per unit.
It also means thay will be able to take advantage of discounts on materials and spread tooling costs. The likes of Perry will still have to make a similar outlay for moulds.
If GW's indirect costs are so significantly higher per unit, they are not being very efficient.
But then they don't have to be because they know they can bank on an over loyal fan base to bail them out

Then, as Luna said, there is the retail arm, which I also suspect may be a big sink hole for GW. Personally I would seperate the two and even think of getting shot of it.
But that is another thread.

I still don't believe that the overheads would be sufficient justification for splitting a two figure blister and retaining the same price thereby doubling the cost:

Castellan Creed...£10.50
Colour Sergeant Kell...£12.50

That's £23.00 kids, for two infantry minis not so long ago packaged together and cast in white metal for far, far less.

Again Mantic doubled the contents of their mounted Reavers and kept the price the same.
You may put this down to overheads if you want but that would only suggest that something is amiss with the way GW is running it's business to me.

Honestly, I think GW's problem is its unwillingness to close stores. It must spend a fortune on brick-and-mortar stores around the world, but almost every single one I've ever seen is empty or is nearly empty during the day. Sure it's busy weekends, but it seems to mostly be kiddy day-care for parents who want an hour without their children. All stores I've seen are cutting back dramatically on their staff levels; even the store here in Nottingham (not Warhammer World, the city-centre store) has a single staff member during the day. He'd have to run between till and table to be able to sell product and run demo games at the same time except - of course - no-one's actually buying anything.

Store rent, staff, the development studio, studio painters, all these need paying, and it all comes from the models, which is why models seem so vastly inflated compared to what you expect. You're not only paying for the model, but subsidising the stores/designers/painters/writers/web designers too. It also means the store-staff have tight targets to meet, which is why they keep pestering you to buy things, and then buy the 'essential' paints/glues etc. to go with it. Don't blame them, their jobs depend on making you buy more than you planned to. It's also why WD is the advertising cesspit it is.

GW of course, aren't helping themselves. Clearly I don't know all the ins and outs and financial details, but from what I do know, I'd recommend the following:

1. Cut the dead weight stores. Low-volume high-value specialist products are not high-street shop material, and all most shops seem to do is keep children entertained without actually buying anything. Instead, promote toy shops / computer game shops (similar market) / nerd shops (for want of a better word; Forbidden Planet etc) to carry starter sets which then promote people to look for more from the website. Keep the profitable stores open (presumably larger cities).

2. Reduce the cost of gateway drugs. For the love of god, why are GW increasing the price of codexes? These should be the loss-leaders, sold at or below cost, because people won't buy your other products without them! Starter sets too. Far too expensive. You need a smaller, cheaper, impulse purchase price set for people to buy. £20 or less.

3. On a related note: More impulse-purchase items. A box of five multi-part marines right now is £15.50. Utter madness. Sure, they do three clip-togethers for £5.50 but a) they're dull and b) Useless. What good is three marines? If Black Reach can have 50 models and a ton of other stuff for £60, you sure as hell can make a glue-and-go table-ready Sergeant+Special Weapon combat squad box of 5-clip together marines for £5. Got to hit the pocket-money zone. Those kids you're pricing out of the market? Yeah, you won't feel the loss now, but you're losing out on a hell of a lot of potential revenue when they get a job.

4. Stop the short-sighted price rises. And stop trojan-horsing them á la finecast. If sales are going down, the correct response is not to increase prices! I don't expect them to reduce prices, but for God's sake stop upping them. Every single one is a massive bad-publicity news-fest, and you lose customers every time. If you're going to increase prices, people need a valid reason why. The massive failure of the finecast launch ruined any chance of justifying the price rises with a 'superior' material.

5. Welcome to the present day. GW's been waking up to the existence of the internet and computers, but it's slow. Licensed games must surely be their premier source of advertising (which further puts a dent into their reasons for keeping stores open) but they can take it further. I want a website where I can track my army's victories. I want to be able to challenge my friends. I want to see the history of each unit, how often they died and who killed them. Plug it into Facebook and you have instant free advertising. How about e-book codexes? A one off-payment entities me to updates for the entire edition. Design studio have a cool idea for a new unit? New PDF version, job done. Ogryns not selling because the rules are terrible? How about a points decrease. Make a deal with Amazon. A £99 Kindle that comes with every codex/rulebook/army book with free updates for a year. Costs GW nothing, and suddenly anyone can buy any product without hesitating due to the price of a codex. Make WD a e-magazine too while you're at it.

Agreed, they need to close down some shops and rely more on FLGS's, who paint and sell their products just fine. The GW shops tend to operate at a lose, and it jacks up prices. If GW didn't try to kill off all of the FLGS and forbid online selling, they'd have less indirect costs.

That's the main thing I can point at as far as GW the business is conerned and say "That's a bad move."

Another fine cast price thread. These show up like once a week now.

Welcome to the capitalist world. GW is a business. A business exists to make money in the supply and demand market.

You have the demand and GW has the supply. Therefore GW can charge whatever they want. If you don't like it don't buy it. If enough people do the same GW will change. That change could be discontInuing the model, to repackaging, diffrent price or even going out of business.

But posting hate threads on forums doesn't do anything.

You're absolutely right. Fortunately these days it is not such a monopoly as it was ten years ago, and there are many, many other options. Be it with Mantic and the like making miniatures that are far cheaper than their GW equivalents, or other games entirely that offer a wargame at a more reasonable price, we have another benefit of the capitalist world: We can exercise our rights as consumers, and spend our money elsewhere.

The sad thing is that GW does obviously not recognise any of those competitors, or else does not view them as a threat, or they would not continue with the perennial price increase.

Exactly. It's YOUR MONEY. Spend it as you will on what you will. I mean, you got exploited by a larger corporation (paying you a fraction of a percent what your labor and time is worth to manufacture a good/service the corporation sells at a severly increased rate while paying you who ones the work as little as possible) so exercise the one illusion of a sliver of hope that capitalism "works" and go buy from the other guy! That loss of 1 customer will surely make GW lower the prices of all it's miniatures to only 1 US dollar each. But then they would have to fire alot of employees, turn the website over to monkeys with typewriters (probally the marketing team) replace the phone lines with automated voice ID software that only sells girl guide thin mints, and institute a cover charge and 4 drink minimum on the retail stores.... But hey, that's how business works these days.

Personally the metal creed/kell combo cost me 35$ Canadian. The separate fine cast models total I think 38 here? I'm not going to cry foul over a 3$ increase. I won't go off on a quality tanget, but the truth is, prices on EVERYTHING increase with time. I remember when a 591ml of "cola" cost 1.25 In a vending machine, and now it's 2$ or even 2.25. My mother recalls getting a pop and chips for a quarter so..... Not to mention bottled water. I remember when water was "free" it came from a thing called a "kitchen sink"... Now we pay more for bottled water per liter then we do gasoline. So excuse me for not getting all up in arms about or jumping on the "GW is screwing us over by increasing its prices via fine cast" bandwagon.

DarthSpader wrote:Another fine cast price thread. These show up like once a week now.

Welcome to the capitalist world. GW is a business. A business exists to make money in the supply and demand market.

You have the demand and GW has the supply. Therefore GW can charge whatever they want. If you don't like it don't buy it. If enough people do the same GW will change. That change could be discontInuing the model, to repackaging, diffrent price or even going out of business.

But posting hate threads on forums doesn't do anything.

And another stating the blindingly obvious post on another Finecast price thread
As said above this is about why one two blister pack has become two one figure blister packs doubling the price.

If you want to go talking about classic economics and applying a real life non classic example you will need to try harder
If you don't like the thread don't read it.

fyi I won't be buying but I don't need anyone else to figure that out thank you.

Wonder how many people who complain about fincast have really stopped playing.

Wonder how many will be buying a necron army.

how is it a doubling in price? the old combo pack was 35$. (after my individual stores discount) i think retail was around the 45$ mark. the new individual ones are 50.75 before tax. my store has creed for 17.50 and kell for 26. obviously not double. increase yes, but justified. if companies didnt raise prices they would go out of business and you could still get a pop and chips for a quarter. dont gripe about large corporations and the economics behind sales of one company when its a global issue affecting everything.

and while i may not like the topic it does occasinaly s[ark interest. after all i can only take so much "beat this unit" or "rank the codex!", "how does FNP work?" etc threads. varaity is the spice of life. and spice is required for trolls to live dunchaknow.

edit: i would also say the price change is justified since it is a new material being used, and unless someone has proof that the resin is less expensive both in materials and labour costs to produce its probally an INCREASE in said costs, and that gets translated to the willing customer.

personally i like it. detail dosent seem any worse off, and the resin is easier to clip cut file etc, making conversions MUCH simpler.

Namica wrote:Wonder how many people who complain about fincast have really stopped playing.

Wonder how many will be buying a necron army.

None.

All of them.

Correction at least 1
I've stopped playing, in fact Im trying to get rid of all but one of my armies and I will not be touching the necrons at all.

Commisar Wolfie wrote:Correction at least 1
I've stopped playing, in fact Im trying to get rid of all but one of my armies and I will not be touching the necrons at all.

The question is, is it because of finecast, or were you already planning on it?

finecast is a part of it in the grand scheme of things. The rising prices the current edition all contributed to it.

Zombeeeez

It's Halloween and I am frightened.
Mostly by the scary way some people are willing to forgo all reason in their defence of GW policies.

Nighty night sleep tight and sweet dreams

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Zombeeeez

It's Halloween and I am frightened.
Mostly by the scary way some people are willing to forgo all reason in their defence of GW policies.

Nighty night sleep tight and sweet dreams

You seem to think that people defending finecast are 100%. It's not black and white, people have likes and dislikes and defending a product isn't an indication for a full on love.

Namica wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Zombeeeez

It's Halloween and I am frightened.
Mostly by the scary way some people are willing to forgo all reason in their defence of GW policies.

Nighty night sleep tight and sweet dreams

You seem to think that people defending finecast are 100%. It's not black and white, people have likes and dislikes and defending a product isn't an indication for a full on love.

Oh, the adamant haters don't see it that way. They think one kind word means that that person gives all their earnings to GW. Funny thing is, they're all still here on a 40k site, and most of them still play. Delicious hypocrisy.

nectarprime wrote:Oh, the adamant haters don't see it that way. They think one kind word means that that person gives all their earnings to GW. Funny thing is, they're all still here on a 40k site, and most of them still play. Delicious hypocrisy.

I've not bought anything from GW for about a year and have no plans to. I still paint, model and play 40K. Virtually all of my GW stuff is either traded or bought second hand. Even before I officially "quit" giving my cash to GW in exchange for product, I had drastically reduced my spending with them.

Now my hobby money goes to other companies (like WarMill - I got an entire army worth of custom laser engraved bases from them), or Hasslefree (I got a few display minis from them), etc.

As I said in another thread - I love the game, dislike the company. I am no longer so keen to get people into the game off my own back, and when I do I always tell them to go second hand, or buy from online retailers if they have to get things new.

Nothing hypocritical about that at all.

I didn't mean you at all SilverMK2!! I was referring to some of the other folks on this site that will go unnamed.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:

Isengard wrote:It is incredibly easy to get stuff that is just as good as GW but vastly cheaper.

Problem is 'as good as GW' is still poor quality. I'd not pay £1 for a brush I'd still have to keep changing every other day when a kolinsky sable brush costs me £4 & lasts for several months as well as being available in grades (sizes) as small as 10/0 (looks like a single sable hair), allowing you great control over what size brushes you feel comfortable with. I have some cheap brushes I picked up from WH Smith of which I've kept the larger size ones for drybrushing vehicles or, the big fluffy one I have, for cleaning dust off of models but I wouldn't think twice about whether I'd use the smaller ones on my models or not for general painting - I'll stick with the sable ones.

As for paints, it depends upon colours really. Personally I think GW undercoats are (wait for it) a decent deal! Armypainter ones are cheaper but there's less in them. As for basic colours Tesco carries a large range of acrylic tubes, so do WHSmith, Dunelm Mill, odd places like B & M bargains have them sometimes. I bought 6 250ml tubes of basic acrylic colours from WHSmith in January for £1.99. GW pots are 12ml. Small acrylic tubes are 120ml +! A decent artists place will have dozens of colours. I only now buy any GW paint if I want a specific colur and can't be bothered to mix it myself. There is so much acrylic paint around that it you could trip over the stuff! I know loads of people who say stuff like "how can you paint Citadel figures with non GW paints", like it's wrong, acrylic paint is acrylic paint, some is more diluted and some needs more water adding, just because it's in a tube doesn't mean you can't use it on miniatures.

GW sprays are poor, in my eyes, for one major reason - the paint doesn't shrink as it dries. Car sprays are still the best option, same price, bigger cans. The paint shrinking leaves a perfectly smooth surface without any 'bobbling', which GW sprays are liable to do, and without obscuring any detail. As for acrylics - well all I'll say is I'll stick to the Vallejo ranges. Each to their own and their preferences

Just bought some kolinsky sable from Maelstrom, converted it cost $36 NZ (with their Christmas discount) for eight brushes, which is about the same as three GW brushes. I'd say that that is something of a saving to buy what are (from your description) better brushes.