Switch Theme:

What is your opinion on measuring distances in wargaming.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Poll
What is your opinion on measuring distances in wargaming.
Every measurement must be exactly perfect every time, if you move a space marine 6.01 inches in his movement phase you are cheating.
As exact as possible, the game will take a lot longer, but it will be worth it in the end.
Try to be exact, but don't sweat the little stuff, especially in the first turn or 2.
Measure exactly for the first guy in the unit, then just arrange the rest so they are in roughly the correct position around him.
Eyeball it.
Just put your guys where ever, we assume superhuman space marines can manipulate the space-time continuum.
To cut out all the boring tactical positioning stuff we just arrange our troops in melee at the start, no measurements needed.
Other (write in)

View results
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Torture Victim in the Bowels of the Rock





I like it to be exact as possible. I once played a Tau player back when they were first released, in the combat phase some of the Tau suits could move 6 inches, turn 1 he moved them about 7 inches so i let that slip by turn 5 they were going nearly 12 inches, then i asked don't they only move 6 inches and he embarrassedly moved them back 6inches.

I always pull players up on incongruous movement. If a player starts the game and moves a certain way i adopt that movement style and a lot of people then complain to you about your movement.
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





I'm pretty much in majority agreement. Wargaming can be a very exact thing, and given the number of models and the number of times they move every game I see every game at least one model that is only a fraction of an inch too far. So yeah, exact measurements are important, but sometimes, speeding up the game can be worth sacrificing the value of that one charge, because at the end of the day, if you're not enjoying yourself why are you playing? It takes perspective both ways.
   
Made in gb
Yellin' Yoof




London, UK

I try and keep it as exact as possible but I'd rather have the game flow than get into arguments about an inch here or there.
Having said this one of my regular opponents suffers badly from rubber-ruler syndrome but as frustrating as it is sometimes when his guys scoot across the table at a break neck speed he's a really nice guy who I enjoy gaming with so I let it go...

https://sfjy.wordpress.com/
My blog, written with a friend, where we discuss gaming, brewing, metal and sci-fi whilst not taking ourselves very seriously... 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Dark Angels Assault Marine






My technique is more along the lines of:
  1. If movement is obstructed or the group is large, move models on each side of the group the exact distance, then move the rest to remain roughly in between.
  2. If movement is unobstructed, move closest model the exact distance, then move the rest to roughly the right position.
  3. If one or more models physically can't get to a location due to a doorway (which we agreed is passible) or the edge of a crater or something else that the model can't physically fit on or through, then these model(s) are marked with counters to show if they had to stop short or be moved further to suit. Often this depends upon whether stopping short would just a disadvantage though, if I don't think it will matter I'll just take the hit on distance and leave them where they are.
  4. If there's much ambiguity, I'll ask my opponent if the move looks okay so they can weigh in, and I'll measure more of the models if I have to (I usually leave the last model where they started to help with this, then put me in place once the move is okay).

It sounds more complicated than it is, as most of time moves are pretty straightforward, the complexities usually come up when movement is more awkward, i.e- around complex scenery and the like. Usually I don't need to measure for more than two models though.

Also, usually these things come down to clear communication; if you're cutting a corner then say it as you do it, so your opponent isn't left watching something that looks suspicious. If you're playing someone who seems to be taking liberties with a move then be polite and say "that looks a bit further than X inches" or whatever, basically always give them a chance to correct it before you assume they're cheating, otherwise you'll (in my experience) end up with a sulky player who'll measure everything at extreme cost to game-speed

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/05/16 14:20:05


   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




I'd agree. Front rank exact, rear rank exact, everyone else "ish" - when dealing with a unit of 30+ models, trying to place every single model exact is an exercise in futility.

Unless you know it's going to come down to part of an inch for shooting or charge range, of course.

Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in ca
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker





Ottawa, Canada

Measure 1 guy, eyeball the rest method.

But

If we are moving to position for a certain tactic - say you want to make sure you are 12" away from an enemy unit if it were to move 6" towards you - then we state what the range is going to be for when that situation pops up.

Often...the distance will magically become shorter (say 10" even though it was only possible to achieve 12" charge if you actually moved the unit 6")

And in these cases we used the measurement we made when the intent was created to stay 12" away during the last movement phase.

-So that means even though unit A is now 10" away, the intent last turn was to stay 12" away (and at that time 12" was the closest possible) so the unit has to make a 12" charge

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/16 16:17:49


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I voted move first guy then arrange accordingly. I will say though it should have said "move first guy then the last guy and place everyone else in between" I agree that the special weapons and charectors are the important ones and leap frogging is totally cool with me say if you want that flamer from the middle to the front. However that is exactly why the last guy is so important, you can't hide the most important weapons in the very back then to the very front without restricting the rest of the squad.

P.s. specially this for horde armies like orks who have 30 guys and 3 special weapons in there!
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I selected "Try to be exact..."

I measure the model on either end of a "row" accurately, then just move rest of guys up in a line between. If I'm planning any special weapon goodness (moving flamer, melta to front or a diff position) I measure that model accurately.

Look, I play orks. Some units are 30+ guys. If you want accuracy better then this, bring your lunch to games.




 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

As others have said, I measure one guy using one of those plastic tools - I don't know what you call them, but the ones that are 6" on once side, and have a 2" part, etc, like a orange protractor kind of? Anyway, I measure one guy with that middle of base to middle of base, then just eyeball the rest so long as no one is ahead of him, and no one changes their relative positions - no special weapon shenanigans. The people I play with aren't very precise on the rules, the game is already stupid enough with bad rules no reason for us to treat it even more like a algebra quiz combined with reading a spreadsheet.

I play Orks as well as Necrons and Space Marines.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




South New Jersey

 Ouze wrote:
As others have said, I measure one guy using one of those plastic tools - I don't know what you call them.


Measuring templates, I think. They're useful for games that use a lot of precise, low value measurements that repeat often.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/19 19:13:50


   
Made in us
Junior Officer with Laspistol




pontiac, michigan; usa

I think i've said this before. I don't want to cheat my opponent and i don't want to take all day getting every little millimeter i can. Usually i move 1/4 of an inch less than the maximum or so so i don't have to bother with all that nonsense.

Join skavenblight today!

http://the-under-empire.proboards.com/ (my skaven forum) 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut






UK

Unless I'm moving something well within its max distance, or they're maintaining a formation, I try to measure every model as precisely as possible. I've been in positions where a scraping of an inch either way has dramatically altered outcomes, so I try and reduce the chances of that happening through poor measuring.

Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

I'm assuming this is for 40k and 40k style games where individual model positioning matters for movement, shooting, and TLOS.

I prefer unit movement and volume LOS, so... moving one guy in a unit makes life exponentially easier, elegant, and more realistic, than sliding around TLOS stone statues precise measurements.

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut




I think that's the main thing I hate about 40K, especially tournaments: people cheat their movement all the fething time.

It feels like the whole game is about keeping others' cheating in check and you *have* to watch every move, as most people steal half an inch or more per movement phase (including running), leaving you open to unlikely assaults and the bunch.

I remember playing a guy from the Belgian ETC team who cheated 3 full inches in a single phase, just to make a 10" charge in the following assault phase and win the game on that (+3 points for an objective, -3 for me, some mael points + KP...).

So yeah, .01 inch is not a problem for me and I would appreciate if other players tried to keep their movements accurate, for example by putting their 6" or 12" ruler on the table, in front of the model, then a dice where it lands etc.

I'm fine with just bringing most of a swarm along and just measuring the first guys of course.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 chaosmarauder wrote:
Measure 1 guy, eyeball the rest method.

But

If we are moving to position for a certain tactic - say you want to make sure you are 12" away from an enemy unit if it were to move 6" towards you - then we state what the range is going to be for when that situation pops up.

Often...the distance will magically become shorter (say 10" even though it was only possible to achieve 12" charge if you actually moved the unit 6")

And in these cases we used the measurement we made when the intent was created to stay 12" away during the last movement phase.

-So that means even though unit A is now 10" away, the intent last turn was to stay 12" away (and at that time 12" was the closest possible) so the unit has to make a 12" charge


And on the next turn, you forgot all about that, and that unit will have to make a 8" charge instead of a 10" one.

I think the only solution is actual fair play - but it seems so many players insist on obtaining a dishonest victory at plastic toy soldiers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/18 18:03:50


 
   
Made in us
Mutating Changebringer





New Hampshire, USA

Why isn't this locked?

Its from January 4th 2012.

I actually had a pile of images to add to a year old thread and had it locked on me despite it had meaningful content to contribute.

Clearly this poll was resolved ages ago. We get it. People move one model on point and drag the rest.

Khorne Daemons 4000+pts
 
   
Made in gb
Focused Fire Warrior





England

One of the guys in our group measures, but leans forward as he moves the model, taking the tape measure with him. This leads to an inch or two extra on his CSM models moving forward.

Novels:
The Pirate Throne - 272 Pages
An Empire Broken - 229 Pages

Current Writing Project:
The Circus of the Devil

Short Stories:
The Skulls in the Well 
   
Made in us
Kinebrach-Knobbling Xeno Interrogator





Measure as normal, but no need to measure for the small stuff.

 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Kommando






Move the first and exactly then eyeball the rest saves slot of time.

 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Prosecutor





The Warmachine community is having this exact debate right now. I try to be accurate, but when you start needing to whip out a bunch of tools and proxy bases just to get a miniature from point A to point B it's gone too far.

Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.


 lolman1c wrote:
The ork train has no breaks mothersquiggor!
 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun






It depends on what your playing.

Personally I prefer to be exact as possible but I don't get to upset over 0.1 of inch or anything that silly.

There is a reason something can move 10 inches instead of 9 but it is still just a game so don't be too picky!

'What we do in life echos in eternity!'

Dark angels, Ad mech, Eldar 
   
Made in fr
Storm Trooper with Maglight




France

Well, i think that roughly measuring in casual games is enough, so i'm fine with displacing the first guy and then just move the others as exactly as possible. Also, as far as melee, the rules make little sense so I tend to go the Bolt Action way: if after counter charge fire the unit still reaches its target, just move them so that there can be as many of them in contact.

Notice that we also decided to regard the two first ranks to be engaged and the others not to in order to avoid having long armed guys striking models from kilometers or to end up with the second attacker not being able to fight back.

But still isn't the author of this poll salty or bitter? Some of the options sound like he were.

40k: Necrons/Imperial Guard
Bolt Action: Germany/ USA
Project Z.
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Is it any surprise to anyone that I voted for the top option? The rules are the rules.

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294
+++++There are currently ELEVENTY BLOODY ONE (111) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities
Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users.
Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
Made in us
Winged Kroot Vulture





Measure exactly for the first guy in the unit, then just arrange the rest so they are in roughly the correct position around him.

I usually measure the front guy to 5.5 inches to give myself some room for accidental bumping/shifting.
   
Made in us
Hollerin' Herda with Squighound Pack





Just measure it and get on with it.

 
   
Made in dk
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot






Half an inch, not a big deal to me, even if you cheated with half an inch every time I don't think I would notice. 2" is hard not to notice though, I could say nothing but I will hate you after the game is over, so I'll usually call you out so we can play again and have more fun together.

I'd hope my opponents call me out on even the tiniest thing, I'm not trying to cheat, but I'd like to do my tactical manouvres and sometimes I might end up pushing the envelope a bit, sometimes I'm just being lazy, did I move that model there 0,1" to fit my model? Did I move 12,1" so I can rapid fire with my Ghost Ark? I don't know, didn't intend to, call it out if you think I did.
   
Made in ie
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Dublin

I believe measurements should be reasonably precise, mainly to avoid possible frustration later in the game, where one player feels the other has gained advantage by being sloppy with movement.

The increments of measurements in a game are a good gauge of how precise we should be. A system which features 1cm or 1/2" measurement increments clearly intends players to be more precise than one in which 1" is the smallest incrament. Whether line of sight and cover rules are literal or abstract also factors in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/23 18:22:12


I let the dogs out 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut







id say try te be exact but if there is a .1 further don't care and if its a 30 man conscript sward then for sake of keeping game interesting measure 5-10 and roughly the rest

I'm dyslexic and thus am bad at spelling and grammar please don't remind me in comments to my posts.


The flesh tearers really like killing so much. They love doing it to people face's just they like doing it to their buddies as well. 
   
Made in us
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit



Ottawa

I'm a huge fan of communication. I don't expect things to be exact, but if you weren't clear on your intentions and you're off, too bad.
   
Made in us
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper






For me it depends on who I'm playing with. One guy I've played a few times with is super competitive and will cheat at any chance, so with him I have to keep it exact. Most of my other opponents/ friends are just in it for the fun and we just get it "ehh good enough."

1941 to 41st millennium in 6 seconds and $80.  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Washington, USA

Measuring is important but so is fun. For tournaments, I think there should be a enforced rule for measuring to create fairness.
   
 
Forum Index » Dakka Polls
Go to: