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TheAngrySquig wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:It's a captain in power armour with a thunder hammer, those aren't going to be uncommon in the IoM, so I dont think you can really say that it's based on that guy, especially seeing as they're from two completely seperate chapters

Thunderhammers are extremely rare what are you talking about?

Thunder hammers are rare, and yet there is more than one of them and more than one captain that carries them.

And if they are rare, how come my brothers Wolf Priest has a jump pack and two of them?

Asherian Command wrote:

English Assassin wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Dorn did not have white hair!

Actually, according to all of his appearances in the Horus Heresy novels, yes he did.

Asherian Command wrote:Thunderhammers are extremely rare what are you talking about?

Source? Codex: Space Marines certainly says nothing of the sort, and the Space Hulk rulebook quite specifically states that whole Terminator squads are routinely armed with thunder hammers.

Asherian Command wrote:plus they never found his body. He wasn't confirmed in being dead. All they found was his hand, and only one imperial fist came back but he bore a body that was not the same size of the Primarch it is rumored he was captured.

Source? Index Astartes quite simply states that an Imperial counter-attack recovered the Primarch's remains.

Hey English. Let me tell you something.
I have the Same Index, It says a body that was thought to be Dorn's was recovered. there is still a possibility that Dorn is still alive.

So you'll be able to tell me where you read "...bore a body that was not the size of a Primarch..." and "...it is rumoured he was captured." then. I'm waiting.

Asherian Command wrote:Thunderhammers yes according to every book that has ever had a thunderhammer have always called them extremely rare. Space Marine which is offical canon even said that the Thunderhammer is a very rare artifact of the Space Marines.

Firstly "rare" is relative; in a universe of billions of billions, Space Marines are rare. Secondly, are you seriously using a computer game (which is, by the way non-canonical according to THQ) as your only source? If "every book... called them extremely rare", then I'm sure you'll have no trouble citing a few. While you're at it, why not find a citation for "Thunderhammers are not mass produced. They are only given to individuals who deserved the entitlement of the thunderhammer.". Go on.

AsherianCommmand wrote:

EnglishAssassin wrote:Space Hulk rulebook quite specifically states that whole Terminator squads

Wow. You just shot yourself in the foot.
Terminator Squads are extremely rare.

But conspicuously not so rare as "1 - 3 per chapter"; as I said, rarity is relative, and, unless you can substantiate your previous assertions from an unambiguously canonical source (which, I very much doubt you will be able to do), it is irrelevant to the discussion.

AsherianCommmand wrote:Then let us not forget that Dorn has be described in almost every single haircolor.

Then I'm sure you'll have no trouble citing some examples. I want to read about a ginger Rogal Dorn; I could do with a good laugh.

They found Dorn dead.
If they didn't find him then whose hands did they take?
He's dead.

Dorn is dead, he is not alive, in fact he is the very opposite of alive, he is dead

Asherian Command wrote: Well no duh. Terminators are the elite of the chapter. Of course they would be given thunderhammers. But it is extremely rare to even have 5 entire squads of terminators with thunder hammers.

Even then, in the fluff terminators almost always have Powerfist+stormbolter, because in the fluff that is probably the best loadout. A storm bolter can, potentially with optimum line of fire and highground, cut down most/ all of an infantry squad (IG) with a single mag.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@English assassin on rarity on THs and termies, in Nocturne, when all of the firedrakes were assembled, the ONLY thunderhammer present was Praetors, and I am fairly certain Tu'shan had one too.

For a FIRST FOUNDING chapter, which loves THs.

purplefood wrote:They found Dorn dead.
If they didn't find him then whose hands did they take?
He's dead.

I know he's dead. But it is believed by many (not me) that he is still alive. They say "Well Dorn's hand was discovered."
Herp da derp is all I can really say to English Assassin. I really don't want to pull out sources and research. I am way too busy to go through and cite sources.

Lets please move on from the discussion about whether or not he's dead, we can all have our opinions on it, but really this is the internet, how much will your opinion actually be changed here

Asherian Command wrote:I know he's dead. But it is believed by many (not me) that he is still alive. They say "Well Dorn's hand was discovered."

Smooth backtracking there. Well done.

Asherian Command wrote:Herp da derp is all I can really say to English Assassin. I really don't want to pull out sources and research. I am way too busy to go through and cite sources.

Oh, suddenly too busy to find sources for all the 'facts' you've so shrilly insisted upon; there's a surprise.

Now I've been very polite so far, but now I'm going to call you a pathetic little fantasist without even the good manners to admit it when you've been caught.

Dorn is dead. Bones says so.

English Assassin wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:I know he's dead. But it is believed by many (not me) that he is still alive. They say "Well Dorn's hand was discovered."

Smooth backtracking there. Well done.

Asherian Command wrote:Herp da derp is all I can really say to English Assassin. I really don't want to pull out sources and research. I am way too busy to go through and cite sources.

Oh, suddenly too busy to find sources for all the 'facts' you've so shrilly insisted upon; there's a surprise.

Now I've been very polite so far, but now I'm going to call you a pathetic little fantasist without even the good manners to admit it when you've been caught.

I have a feeling you'd LOVE Asherians custom chapter!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/280380.page

This Is not about the discussion of my Chapter. He has already commented and suggested themes and such to ensure the chapter stays under a certain degree of mary sue.
All comments on my chapter are to REMAIN on that thread and not this. Please enforce the rule of none off-topicness on specific forms and please answer the OP's question
Please leave all comments and criticism on that thread. Not this. Thank you.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:Dorn is dead. Bones says so.

I suddenly have a feeling that Chief Medical Officer aboard a certain starship was easy to fill...

Asherian Command wrote:
This Is not about the discussion of my Chapter. He has already commented and suggested themes and such to ensure the chapter stays under a certain degree of mary sue.
All comments on my chapter are to REMAIN on that thread and not this. Please enforce the rule of none off-topicness on specific forms and please answer the OP's question
Please leave all comments and criticism on that thread. Not this. Thank you.

ooooookay

Just getting more input for your thread eh?

Sort of disturbing how vociferously people argue about the background of a made up setting

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:Sort of disturbing how vociferously people argue about the background of a made up setting

You'd be surprised what humans will argue about...
I was thinking about making a graph but i got into an argument about whether it was pointless or not with my graph making department... needless to say they will never find the bodies.

Proof he is dead. Lexicanum says so. If that and Dr McCoy saying so isn't enough for you, I don't know what is.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:Proof he is dead. Lexicanum says so. If that and Dr McCoy saying so isn't enough for you, I don't know what is.

The 6ed rulebook explicitly stating it, would work

Dorn died on board the Despoiler Class Battleship Sword of Sacrilege after leading a desperate attack on its bridge. His remains were recovered and his engraved skeletal hand is kept in stasis by his chapter.2
Dorn's skeleton without his hands is kept within a chapel, and embedded in clear amber contoured to the body form of the Primarch himself. Dorn's skeletal fists are kept within two shrines, the bones intricately engraved with the heraldry of all the Chapter's previous Masters. Only the Chapter Master has the right to engrave his name upon the bones. Each bone corresponds to former commanders. Left hand, the first metacarpal: Lords Bronwin Abermort, Maximus Thane, Kalman Flodensbog, the first phalanx of the thumb, Ambrosian Spactor, etc.5

Straight of Lexicanum

Asherian Command wrote:
This Is not about the discussion of my Chapter. He has already commented and suggested themes and such to ensure the chapter stays under a certain degree of mary sue.
All comments on my chapter are to REMAIN on that thread and not this. Please enforce the rule of none off-topicness on specific forms and please answer the OP's question
Please leave all comments and criticism on that thread. Not this. Thank you.

Im confused, where was your chapter mentioned?


Anyway, In references i have seen (the collected visions art and Horus Heresy books), Dorn is white haired, and fairly badass. so i think that The second pic is him, and the first is random captain number 3

Asherian Command wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:It's a captain in power armour with a thunder hammer, those aren't going to be uncommon in the IoM, so I dont think you can really say that it's based on that guy, especially seeing as they're from two completely seperate chapters

Thunderhammers are extremely rare what are you talking about?

Thunder hammers are rare, and yet there is more than one of them and more than one captain that carries them.

They are rare. Only heroes that prove themselves in combat can use one. Its just in the game people use them all the time. But in the fluff they are rarely seen.

Though to be fare, an artist would really draw what he wants, and since thunder hammers are so uber, there are lots of DRAWINGS of guys with thunderhammers, doesn't mean they are Dorn.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Dorn died on board the Despoiler Class Battleship Sword of Sacrilege after leading a desperate attack on its bridge. His remains were recovered and his engraved skeletal hand is kept in stasis by his chapter.2
Dorn's skeleton without his hands is kept within a chapel, and embedded in clear amber contoured to the body form of the Primarch himself. Dorn's skeletal fists are kept within two shrines, the bones intricately engraved with the heraldry of all the Chapter's previous Masters. Only the Chapter Master has the right to engrave his name upon the bones. Each bone corresponds to former commanders. Left hand, the first metacarpal: Lords Bronwin Abermort, Maximus Thane, Kalman Flodensbog, the first phalanx of the thumb, Ambrosian Spactor, etc.5

Straight of Lexicanum

Lexicanum is known to paraphrase the wording, with their blurbs usually showing minor interpretations of works.

The original source, fairly certain, says they recovered A body

im2randomghgh wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Dorn died on board the Despoiler Class Battleship Sword of Sacrilege after leading a desperate attack on its bridge. His remains were recovered and his engraved skeletal hand is kept in stasis by his chapter.2
Dorn's skeleton without his hands is kept within a chapel, and embedded in clear amber contoured to the body form of the Primarch himself. Dorn's skeletal fists are kept within two shrines, the bones intricately engraved with the heraldry of all the Chapter's previous Masters. Only the Chapter Master has the right to engrave his name upon the bones. Each bone corresponds to former commanders. Left hand, the first metacarpal: Lords Bronwin Abermort, Maximus Thane, Kalman Flodensbog, the first phalanx of the thumb, Ambrosian Spactor, etc.5

Straight of Lexicanum

Lexicanum is known to paraphrase the wording, with their blurbs usually showing minor interpretations of works.

The original source, fairly certain, says they recovered A body

Oh yeah?! Well... I have no come back, you're right. Lexicanum isn't always right

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Dorn died on board the Despoiler Class Battleship Sword of Sacrilege after leading a desperate attack on its bridge. His remains were recovered and his engraved skeletal hand is kept in stasis by his chapter.2
Dorn's skeleton without his hands is kept within a chapel, and embedded in clear amber contoured to the body form of the Primarch himself. Dorn's skeletal fists are kept within two shrines, the bones intricately engraved with the heraldry of all the Chapter's previous Masters. Only the Chapter Master has the right to engrave his name upon the bones. Each bone corresponds to former commanders. Left hand, the first metacarpal: Lords Bronwin Abermort, Maximus Thane, Kalman Flodensbog, the first phalanx of the thumb, Ambrosian Spactor, etc.5

Straight of Lexicanum

Lexicanum is known to paraphrase the wording, with their blurbs usually showing minor interpretations of works.

The original source, fairly certain, says they recovered A body

Oh yeah?! Well... I have no come back, you're right. Lexicanum isn't always right

The precise wording of the Index Astartes article is: "They boarded the Sword of Sacrilege and recovered what remained of Rogal Dorn.", which is pretty unambiguous. "A body not the size of a Primarch" and "rumours he was captured" are conspicuously absent.

English Assassin wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Dorn died on board the Despoiler Class Battleship Sword of Sacrilege after leading a desperate attack on its bridge. His remains were recovered and his engraved skeletal hand is kept in stasis by his chapter.2
Dorn's skeleton without his hands is kept within a chapel, and embedded in clear amber contoured to the body form of the Primarch himself. Dorn's skeletal fists are kept within two shrines, the bones intricately engraved with the heraldry of all the Chapter's previous Masters. Only the Chapter Master has the right to engrave his name upon the bones. Each bone corresponds to former commanders. Left hand, the first metacarpal: Lords Bronwin Abermort, Maximus Thane, Kalman Flodensbog, the first phalanx of the thumb, Ambrosian Spactor, etc.5

Straight of Lexicanum

Lexicanum is known to paraphrase the wording, with their blurbs usually showing minor interpretations of works.

The original source, fairly certain, says they recovered A body

Oh yeah?! Well... I have no come back, you're right. Lexicanum isn't always right

The precise wording of the Index Astartes article is: "They boarded the Sword of Sacrilege and recovered what remained of Rogal Dorn.", which is pretty unambiguous. "A body not the size of a Primarch" and "rumours he was captured" are conspicuously absent.

I also recall reading a version where only one hand was found, and no body, so...

The best image of Dorn that I have seen is a black and white from the original Space Marine (old school epic) game. He looks like Eastwood. Darker hair and a few days scruff on the face.

im2randomghgh wrote:

English Assassin wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Dorn died on board the Despoiler Class Battleship Sword of Sacrilege after leading a desperate attack on its bridge. His remains were recovered and his engraved skeletal hand is kept in stasis by his chapter.2
Dorn's skeleton without his hands is kept within a chapel, and embedded in clear amber contoured to the body form of the Primarch himself. Dorn's skeletal fists are kept within two shrines, the bones intricately engraved with the heraldry of all the Chapter's previous Masters. Only the Chapter Master has the right to engrave his name upon the bones. Each bone corresponds to former commanders. Left hand, the first metacarpal: Lords Bronwin Abermort, Maximus Thane, Kalman Flodensbog, the first phalanx of the thumb, Ambrosian Spactor, etc.5

Straight of Lexicanum

Lexicanum is known to paraphrase the wording, with their blurbs usually showing minor interpretations of works.

The original source, fairly certain, says they recovered A body

Oh yeah?! Well... I have no come back, you're right. Lexicanum isn't always right

The precise wording of the Index Astartes article is: "They boarded the Sword of Sacrilege and recovered what remained of Rogal Dorn.", which is pretty unambiguous. "A body not the size of a Primarch" and "rumours he was captured" are conspicuously absent.

I also recall reading a version where only one hand was found, and no body, so...

Well, "remains" is a pretty ambiguous term. I can't think of any other instances of the story, so I suspect that, since the Index Astartes article only went on to mention a hand being on display, people (including, quite possibly, other GW hacks) have assumed that only a hand was recovered. However, Ian Watson's Space Marine has the Primarch's body (minus hands) encased in amber, and his hands in two shrines. Unless somebody can find something to specifically contradict it, then, despite the novel's age, it remains canonical that the Imperial Fists have a complete Dorn skeleton, divided over three cabinets. Even if we disregard the novel, it remains, unless a source comes to light, only inference that his hand comprised the entirety of those "remains".

Unless, once the Heresy novels are done with, we get an 'Age of the Imperium' series, I doubt we'll ever get more specifics than we presently have.

@ im2randomghgh- Wait you found something where he was missing a hand? Now who do we know that loves taking IF hands?


FEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGG CCCCCCCCCCCRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNSSSSSSS

English Assassin wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

English Assassin wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Dorn died on board the Despoiler Class Battleship Sword of Sacrilege after leading a desperate attack on its bridge. His remains were recovered and his engraved skeletal hand is kept in stasis by his chapter.2
Dorn's skeleton without his hands is kept within a chapel, and embedded in clear amber contoured to the body form of the Primarch himself. Dorn's skeletal fists are kept within two shrines, the bones intricately engraved with the heraldry of all the Chapter's previous Masters. Only the Chapter Master has the right to engrave his name upon the bones. Each bone corresponds to former commanders. Left hand, the first metacarpal: Lords Bronwin Abermort, Maximus Thane, Kalman Flodensbog, the first phalanx of the thumb, Ambrosian Spactor, etc.5

Straight of Lexicanum

Lexicanum is known to paraphrase the wording, with their blurbs usually showing minor interpretations of works.

The original source, fairly certain, says they recovered A body

Oh yeah?! Well... I have no come back, you're right. Lexicanum isn't always right

The precise wording of the Index Astartes article is: "They boarded the Sword of Sacrilege and recovered what remained of Rogal Dorn.", which is pretty unambiguous. "A body not the size of a Primarch" and "rumours he was captured" are conspicuously absent.

I also recall reading a version where only one hand was found, and no body, so...

Well, "remains" is a pretty ambiguous term. I can't think of any other instances of the story, so I suspect that, since the Index Astartes article only went on to mention a hand being on display, people (including, quite possibly, other GW hacks) have assumed that only a hand was recovered. However, Ian Watson's Space Marine has the Primarch's body (minus hands) encased in amber, and his hands in two shrines. Unless somebody can find something to specifically contradict it, then, despite the novel's age, it remains canonical that the Imperial Fists have a complete Dorn skeleton, divided over three cabinets. Even if we disregard the novel, it remains, unless a source comes to light, only inference that his hand comprised the entirety of those "remains".

Unless, once the Heresy novels are done with, we get an 'Age of the Imperium' series, I doubt we'll ever get more specifics than we presently have.

Well the novel space marine is quite out of date, and not up to date with the rest of the universe (Space Marines controlling titans, space marines with lasgun and TZEENTCH WORSHIPPING SQUATS?!?!).

And it is speculation that the remains are more than just the hand.

TheAngrySquig wrote:@ im2randomghgh- Wait you found something where he was missing a hand? Now who do we know that loves taking IF hands?


FUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKIIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGGGGG CCCCCCCCCCCRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNSSSSSSS

Censor that now.
NO swearing on dakka. Please read the forum rules. http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp

This is a family website. Not 4chan.

Speculation can only go so far.
Hell people still say that Horus is still alive....

Asherian Command wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:@ im2randomghgh- Wait you found something where he was missing a hand? Now who do we know that loves taking IF hands?


FUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKIIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGGGGG CCCCCCCCCCCRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNSSSSSSS

Censor that now.

I thought that the auto censor would take care of it, fixed