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@broodstar Then you need to look at the tournament rankings at HQ. They ARE the number one army in America. More ork armies are winning and placing high then any other army. Doesnt really matter if you believe in it or not the facts are in front of your face.

Nids are horribly underpowered and I have yet to lose to them playing any army. I think they have maybe 1 or 2 decent builds but thats it.

xSoulgrinderx wrote:Who thinks that Blood Angels are WAAAAYYY to overpowered? To many frelling rules and assaults and bonus attacks and just arrrghh..... hate them, everyone plays them. I play daemons and how can some human marines get to deep strike ONLY D6 and then ASSAULT! WTF! Thats messed up, and totally unfair compared to codexs that need stuff. Its been so bad at my LGS that I refuse to play against them. I want to burn every BA codex and send the ashes to GW.

Anyone else feel the same...?

*Old Thread I Know*

Was digging around and saw your post, having a hard time understanding how they can deep strike 'and' assault. The only unit that can do that that I know of is Vanguard veterans and Codex Marines have those as well, big shocker that they are over-cost and hardly utilized.

I used to be afraid of Blood Angels until I found out what their tricks are and even assualting them is no big deal.

Assaulting GK on the other hand is a mistake!
Assaulting the rightly built SW unit is a terrible idea

Over-powered but not unbeatable. Sure it's annoying they get virtually every tank Fast for free, their razors are practically free (and fast, obviously), and they get to re-roll the reserve dice for no apparent reason.
They can be a "hard counter" to certain lists, though. Just change your list.

Joey, it's not for free. All their transports that are Fast are 15 pts more. The Vindicator is 30 points more!

Lol, almost threadomancy

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Joey, it's not for free. All their transports that are Fast are 15 pts more. The Vindicator is 30 points more!

I would happily pay 30 points for a fast Demolisher cannon.
Don't have the BA/SM codexes at hand (at work) but I think most SM players would kill for such cheap fast transports/predators.
And the Bhall, an outflanking fast predator with an assault cannon and sponsons, for iirc ~130 points.

Nah, Blood Angels are hardly overpowered, just clump your units together and wait for him.

But the only thing that ticks me off is in the 5th edition, they removed Drop Troop Guard from the current Guard Codex and on the very next Codex brings out a Space Marine Chapter that can be a dedicated deep striking force.

It's a friggin eye-poke to my Harkoni Warhawks! Damnable Space Marines getting everyone and everything! *Shakes Fists Angrily*

Some of the lists though are just ridiclious. They have so many SC tht give so many extra rules ontop of the pile of rules they already get.

Am I wrong in saying that they get more rules than most any other codex?

xSoulgrinderx wrote:Some of the lists though are just ridiclious. They have so many SC tht give so many extra rules ontop of the pile of rules they already get.

Am I wrong in saying that they get more rules than most any other codex?

Have you SEEN the Space Wolves Codex?

Yeah, its bad but not as bad as the BA. The only thing I dont like is the deep striking rules that they can mess with. But other than that, theyre normal to me. Not any better than DA or SM, sure they get rules but its not like they get the ones that the BA get.

The BA codex is overpowered. Just because its not as overpowered as 1-2 other books, does not make it not OP. The BA codex truly is SM +1. They get everything the normal SM get plus all the cheaper toys. At least the SW and GK book tries to be a divergent army from SM. But BA is the SM book just with some price tweeking and a ton of extra bits.

Also there are some things in the BA codex that just should not exist in a table top game.

Blood talons Infinite generating hits
Dante's mask that directly takes away stats from your opponent
Mephiston being a MC on a infantry base
Fast (not just boosted) marine vehicles.
Force bonus bubbles

It doesn't matter some/all/none of the above can be "easily" dealt with, they just shouldn't exist in the first place. Its horrible game design that can't be remedied without a complete rewrite.

KplKeegan wrote:

xSoulgrinderx wrote:Some of the lists though are just ridiclious. They have so many SC tht give so many extra rules ontop of the pile of rules they already get.

Am I wrong in saying that they get more rules than most any other codex?

Have you SEEN the Space Wolves Codex?

Space Wolves have 2 under-costed units in the form of Grey Hunters & Long fangs. However, they pay through the nose for their sergeant equivalents, hammernators are horrendously over-costed for them, their HQ's are equal to or costlier than their codex marine equivalents and the rest is pretty well balanced.
The thing that makes SW's strong is they can readily spam their under-costed units at least as well as the other 5th ed books, and they can play the MSU mech game *really* well.

BA's on the other hand I find are 'Codex: Marines - Easy Mode!' Look at what they can do well for only a minor pts increase, if any at all;
- DoA's lists w/precision dropping meltaguns. Dante makes it even easier with 4x Meltagun honour guard and he nerfs an enemy IC in the bargan.

- MSU mech spam for better & cheaper than other marines thanks to gaining meltaguns in assault squads, inferno pistol sergeants AND 'free' twin-linked asscan/twin-linked las/twin plasma + lascannon turrets on a 'fast' type transport! (SW's players tend to cry at this!)

- FnP gunlines. Codex marines are crying their eyes out here. for what, 150'ish pts and an Elites slot, BA's can play the DA's game way better than they can.
On the flip side, you have the ability to easily create an entire FnP jump pack/hammernator force. Have fun, hope you have ready access to 'oodles of ap1/2 and/or power toys, if not, sucks to be you!

- 'Blendernaughts' are moronic. Fantasy players complain about vampire lords being able to throw out upwards of a dozen plus attacks a round as being a bit OTT. But in 40k, we have a sillier version that can single-handedly wipe-out 30 man squads... All those Khornate worshippers must be wondering why their God has suddenly made them go soft.
The downside? You have to take a 5 Death Company 'tax' to get him.

- Outflanking, 'fast' type predators with options for template weapons. Who the hell wouldn't want some of those?!!
Even deploying a Baal pred normally, you still have an av13 box zipping about with either 4x twin-linked S6/rending shots, or a S6/ap3 template weapon.

- Mephiston is broken. A monstrous creature statline who hides as easily as any other infantry model. So he's not an IC?! Big whooptie-do. He's also got the 3 psychic abilities that help him out the most just to make sure he's about as idiot proof as possible.



Like GK's, BA's allow you to play 40k in 'easy mode', giving you numerous advantages for little additional cost and/or drawbacks. It's fustrating more than it is outright 'unfair', simply because alot of other armies are either well behind the current curve, or else have been more or less balanced like Codex: Space Marines.

For alot of people, facing BA's is like when you're 6 years old playing toy soldiers with that kid who always has to one-up your every cool ability with an even cooler and sillier one!

SOLD.

Boo fething hoo. Play BAs if they are so broken. To me they are FAR less idiot proof then the codices that come after them. Seriously, how hard is it to take Rad Grenades and cast Hammerhand whilst using Force Halberds?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Experiment 626 wrote:[

Space Wolves have 2 under-costed units in the form of Grey Hunters & Long fangs. However, they pay through the nose for their sergeant equivalents, hammernators are horrendously over-costed for them, their HQ's are equal to or costlier than their codex marine equivalents and the rest is pretty well balanced.
The thing that makes SW's strong is they can readily spam their under-costed units at least as well as the other 5th ed books, and they can play the MSU mech game *really* well.

Which (judging by al lthe tourney lists I see) is all yo uneed to be oover powered. Cheap spammed firepower/support and reasonably balanced powerful units. The fact that the units ytou want first off (scoring units and firepower) are so cheap allows you to get MORE of the "reasonably costed" units. They don't need sergeant equivalents though... regular troops can get special CCWs.

BA's on the other hand I find are 'Codex: Marines - Easy Mode!' Look at what they can do well for only a minor pts increase, if any at all;
- DoA's lists w/precision dropping meltaguns. Dante makes it even easier with 4x Meltagun honour guard and he nerfs an enemy IC in the bargan.

Yes, because we all know 400 point melta units dropping in to kill one vehicle is a wonderful use of points...

- MSU mech spam for better & cheaper than other marines thanks to gaining meltaguns in assault squads, inferno pistol sergeants AND 'free' twin-linked asscan/twin-linked las/twin plasma + lascannon turrets on a 'fast' type transport! (SW's players tend to cry at this!)

All for much more points.

- FnP gunlines. Codex marines are crying their eyes out here. for what, 150'ish pts and an Elites slot, BA's can play the DA's game way better than they can.

Who can't beat a gunline in this day and age?

- 'Blendernaughts' are moronic. Fantasy players complain about vampire lords being able to throw out upwards of a dozen plus attacks a round as being a bit OTT. But in 40k, we have a sillier version that can single-handedly wipe-out 30 man squads... All those Khornate worshippers must be wondering why their God has suddenly made them go soft.
The downside? You have to take a 5 Death Company 'tax' to get him.

Statistically they'll kill 6 Guardsmen... Woo hooo... One lascannon will kill it.

- Mephiston is broken. A monstrous creature statline who hides as easily as any other infantry model. So he's not an IC?! Big whooptie-do. He's also got the 3 psychic abilities that help him out the most just to make sure he's about as idiot proof as possible.

No Invul save, can't hide from shooting...hmm what to do.....

xSoulgrinderx wrote:I play daemons and how can some human marines get to deep strike ONLY D6 and then ASSAULT!

Actually, only Vanguard Veterans can assault after Deepstriking, if your opponents do this with anything else they are cheating.

To add to the actualy topic, I'd say BA are a fine codex with lots of variety without being overpowered. Sure they get some nice upgrades and extra rules but the also pay for it pointswise wether you like it or not.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote: 'Blendernaughts' are moronic. Fantasy players complain about vampire lords being able to throw out upwards of a dozen plus attacks a round as being a bit OTT. But in 40k, we have a sillier version that can single-handedly wipe-out 30 man squads... All those Khornate worshippers must be wondering why their God has suddenly made them go soft.
The downside? You have to take a 5 Death Company 'tax' to get him.

Statistically they'll kill 6 Guardsmen... Woo hooo... One lascannon will kill it.

Statistics hardly matter, I generally do 10-20 wounds with my Furioso.

And you do not have to have 5 Death Company to have a Furioso with Blood Talons. You need 5 Death Company to have a Death Company Dread with Blood Talons, which is not the same unit.

Also, 1 lascannon can kill it, but you have a 50% chance of doing nothing, a 16.6667% chance of glance, and a 33.3333% chance to pen on one shot (Assuming you hit and it does not have cover).

Blood Angels aren't OP, but because they are an army written in the 5th Edition, while Daemons may have been prepared for the 5th Edition rules, they find it hard to fight the other armies however they do have their strengths. Also, this is effectively: "BLOOD ANGELZ BEATZ ME SO THEY DIZ OVERPOWEREDS"

KplKeegan wrote:Nah, Blood Angels are hardly overpowered, just clump your units together and wait for him.

But the only thing that ticks me off is in the 5th edition, they removed Drop Troop Guard from the current Guard Codex and on the very next Codex brings out a Space Marine Chapter that can be a dedicated deep striking force.

It's a friggin eye-poke to my Harkoni Warhawks! Damnable Space Marines getting everyone and everything! *Shakes Fists Angrily*

Dark Angels had a "dedicated deep striking force" in the Deathwing way before GW even considered giving the IG book an all DS force. And before that, all marines could do it by forgoing vehicles(3rd edition vanilla Marine Codex Dro ppod rules gave the army DS instead of actual Drop pod models and stats). And before THAT the 3rd ed rule book lists gave BA Assault Marines as Troops.

So, y'know, it's only them coming around full circle.

@ Blood Reaper

Yeah it kinda seems that way huh? Go figure I would have the opinion when most of the people at my LGS plays BLOOD ANGELS....

Lax35 wrote:The Red Thirst which only happens on a roll of 6?

Actually a roll of one cause Red Thirst

Ok so let review this thread (after all the guy looks like he needs some advice) and asses the view:

You claim BA are OP, this I can understand your point of view mainly because I remember a time when I played BW Orks vs an all dread army, I charged a full 20 lad squad into a DC dread thinking it will only have like 5 attacks or something (not much experience back then) so I can get the power klaw stuck in... then I soon found out that my tactic was basically sending wheat to a combine harvester... not a single one of my poor lads lived to tell a tale...

I can understand that it is frustrating to have an army that fills a certain role get ripped apart by another which is better in more ways including yours, but the thing is to learn from your mistakes I can understand it is hard to beat an army which is well-rounded but in each list (apart from DE venomspam, what? haters gonna hate...) but there will always be a weak spot in the list no matter what army it is (apart from venomspam... and GK, yeah I hate them also but mainly because its very hard to beat them with any variation of chaos) so here is some advice:

-use plaguebearers/nurgle stuff and blessings in the first wave (the opponent will charge them and will be bogged down for quite a few turns).

-Use changeling (make him give him an arrow in his own knee).

-Fateweaver and bloodcrushers (yes this is hyper competitive levels, but since we Dont know how many times you have lost to BA I guess you want to win very bad against them).

-make sure bloodletters are in cover (run them to cover when Deepstriking) then on the next turn CHARGE THE ENEMY, then you shall have your fun...

-Flamers are good for those troops entrenched in a fortification...

-pink horrors (assault 3 AP 3... you want marine killers sooo badly).

-Mostorous creatures with mark of nurgle (having fun blowing up the tanks yet?).

-SCREAMERS: (flying meltabombs anyone?).

take this in and as long as you know what you are doing you shall do fine

(also SW are more of a pain than BA, JOWW... *shudder*).

xSoulgrinderx wrote:@ Blood Reaper

Yeah it kinda seems that way huh? Go figure I would have the opinion when most of the people at my LGS plays BLOOD ANGELS....

OK let me re do that:

I cantz beats the Blood Angels, they Iz over powered! To de inter nets.

I play daemons, it's hard to win against any modern army, however I have adapted to face new forces. Try and counter the close combat tactics of the Angels.

xSoulgrinderx wrote:Yeah, its bad but not as bad as the BA. The only thing I dont like is the deep striking rules that they can mess with. But other than that, theyre normal to me. Not any better than DA or SM, sure they get rules but its not like they get the ones that the BA get.

I can understand your aggravation playing against these guys with demons. BA are indeed a strong codex but they aren't dominant anymore. GK and SW both have plenty of tools to deal with them. It's not just that you're plaiyng against a strong army. You're playing against it with a weak one. GW just isn't that good at maintaining play balance. That's all there is to it.

In reality, every new codex just seems over powered. Then a new codex comes along and nerfs it.

Ba are indeed a strong codex, but they aren't OP.

"Melta Vet Guard is OP!"
"Long Fangs are OP!"
"Deathwing is OP!"
"Draigowing is OP!"
"Purifiers are OP!"
""DOA is OP!"
"Mech Guard is OP!"
"Venom Spam is OP!"
"Battlewagon Rush is OP!"
"Mech BA is OP!

Seriously, if you think Blood Angels are bad, take a look at other armies.

I don't call codices like GK, BA, SW, OP I simply view them as a beginner codex. you require little understanding to make a solid list. and it simply comes from spamming and options that are laid at your feet from the start.

for instance long fangs! why would you not choose them? that single choice makes all other heavy support below it.
purifiers? why would you not choose them? good in CC? possible scoring unit? great shooting? they cover every field that way.
those BA priests that give fnp why would you not choose them?
why not have at least 1 dread with blood talons or w/e?

heck even guard! I played a tournament with about 50 or so players and about 7 guard players. I was the ONLY guard player who used russ battle tanks.
EVERYTHING else was hydra spam and chim spam.

No need to try and configure a balanced list. just spam the best possible options laid at your feet the second you open the codex.

I don't hate the codices I just simply view them as beginner armies.

Basic marine codex takes a lot more skill in making lists and that's why I choose to play them.
I even refuse to play Vulkan he is to popular for my liking. i'll stick to 2 librarians with null zones =P

Also, some of the players as it turns out were using rules totally wrong and to their advantage. Complex unit allocation and stuff like that.

Some of the other players are newbs so its acceptable, but there are 2 guys that are just straight up general status players. their tactics and lists are dominating the LGS. Mostly their exp, and list builds are very strong and they know how to max out the rules with maxing tanks and so on.

@happygolucky

Horrors are AP4..... Booooo. STR 4 AP4 Assault 3 weaksauce

So 30 Bolter shots isn't good enougth for you from a ten man unit?

xSoulgrinderx wrote:Who thinks that Blood Angels are way to overpowered? To many frelling rules and assaults and bonus attacks and just..... hate them, everyone plays them. I play daemons and how can some human marines get to deep strike ONLY D6 and then ASSAULT! Thats messed up, and totally unfair compared to codexs that need those kind of rules. Its been so bad at my LGS that I refuse to play against them. I want to burn every BA codex and send the ashes to GW.

Anyone else feel the same...?

well lets answer some of your questions/comments shall we.....

"how can some human marines get to deep strike ONLY D6 and then ASSAULT!"
now first off that's only for one unit (the assault bit) and deep striking is kind of their thing. they've been doing it since the HH. without that rule they would just be marines but red

"everyone plays them"
really? you dont, and only me and one other person out of my 15 man gaming group does so thats hardly every one

"codexs that need those kind of rules"
name one other codex than daemons who still dont really need that rule. so they get 1D6 less scatter.....and? if your playing daemons properly you shouldnt need 1 less dice to scatter

Wow, lot of OP bashing. Guy must be a real tool if he has emotions....

How about this, instead of bashing the OP you do something constructive, like say, offer advice.

well, if you asked how you should go about beating them/ how to make your army better then you would get advice but shouting about how OP a, frankly balanced, army is and making immature comments about how you wish to rid the world of their codex will only land you with comments like the ones above

xSoulgrinderx wrote:Also, some of the players as it turns out were using rules totally wrong and to their advantage. Complex unit allocation and stuff like that.

Some of the other players are newbs so its acceptable, but there are 2 guys that are just straight up general status players. their tactics and lists are dominating the LGS. Mostly their exp, and list builds are very strong and they know how to max out the rules with maxing tanks and so on.

@happygolucky

Horrors are AP4..... Booooo. STR 4 AP4 Assault 3 weaksauce

Ok but still assault 3... 30 shots Dont sound too bad...

If you wanna win at strong builds go for a fate-crusher list (title says it all...) because if there are 2 guys using "competitive" lists (*ahem net lists ahem*) the its time to step up your game and bring 'em down to the warp...