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Thank you Talonwinter. I will try and make it up there again when I can get my kroot and piranha painted for my 2k list. As far as a game, I would love to play some guys up in the seattle area. The Bunker is a bit far to travel, but if you can meet me half way in Tacoma, I would gladly play. If you are North of Seattle, Just let me know and I will try to make it up there for a day to play you as well as a couple other people that seem to want to play against this army.

Just let me know and I will try and make it happen.

Cheers,
Waffles





Kenny(1): As far as playing "experienced players," I play nearly nothing but these "experienced players." I am still holding my own against people who have been playing for 10+ years and using lists that you say I can not contest a game with.

Just yesterday I played a rather tough opponent. He had a BA with lots of troops and lots of vehicles (Two tanks, 2 rhinos, land Raider, three 10-man squads, Librarian: 1500 points) I could have won the game with some more knowledge and without making a couple mistakes, but with 4 objectives, I still pulled off a draw. Does this player now become a "newbie" because he did not flatten me out?

Does anyone become less of a player by losing?

It sure does seem so since if someone can not obliterate my list they must "suck" and "not be an experienced player."

I love, and encourage, anyone to challenge my list, both in words and on the table. But you have seemed to gone from giving advice and constructive criticism to full out 'if you play this list, you are stupid.'

Post deleted.

I do hope you realize what you are saying.

You have made personal attacks: "its lose, not loose. Loose is the opposite of tight."
Direct personal attack based off of a typo.

You are also attacking the intelligence and ability of other players. What I am wondering now is if you think a person can not have a competitive army unless they play a mech/LF spam / ork biker / IG list.

I have to ask you though: If you play against a person with a certain list that you have dealt with before, do you play the same way as before?"

I can already answer that question: NO.
This is because every game is different. Every deployment is different. This is why I can not tell you what I can do against any list before I play it. I do not care what list a person plays, it is the person I am playing, not the army.
Yes, the army makes a difference, but I have seen a list get trampled upon with one player, and then win every game with another player. Its about the general.

I can not truly tell you what I will do when facing any army due to the fact that EVERY GAME IS DIFFERENT.

Like you said: "we can always theoryhammer about [a] list." But we can not all base the effectiveness of an army on the list itself.

I will always play a game as if I playing it the first time due to the fact that the person behind the army is the difference.
I will always do this with a huge grin on my face for this is such a fun game.
I will always be changing my list.
I will always meet new friends.

I think I have a great list for I know I am still not playing it to its full potential and yet it is still proving effective. Just because it is not something you will think it works, does not mean it will not work.

With this list I am currently 4 - 6 - 2. Not all of this is due to the list, but rather me.
I can only go with results, and these results are not bad with as lousy of a general I am.

Until I find something that I truly can not hold my own against, I will continue to develop this list.

Lets hope my next few tournaments can produce decent scores to show that Tau, with and without "competitive lists," can still hold their own and show that this army is not left in the dark quite yet.

Waffles

TheMicah25 (and Kenny):
I think part of the confusion for Kenny is two-fold. First he thinks I am talking specifically about ONLY this list. I am not, though I am trying to make it make sense in Jazzpaintball's context. I am talking about the fundamental tactics, base level. I think the "mechanism" for this kind of thinking is pretty particular to Tau.

The second thing he does not know is that my list departs DRAMATICALLY from Jazzpaintball.

I think the value in this thread is that it shows a newer player with a super finesse army and a crafty build can show strongly in a competitive environment like that was. I cannot help but feel great about how he did. =)

As for my list... If you REALLY wanna see it... Whats the ettiqueete here? am I thread jacking if I put it here?

I wouldn't mind if you put it up here.

You can put it up here or in the army lists section. The only problem with that section though is that there are so many put up that a list is only on the front page for about 10 hours. If you put it up there, just make sure to link it here for the people who want to see it.

Night Jan,
Waffles

Kenny, I think you brought up legit stuff, that causes one to go to plan B (which means varying degrees of different deployment). I think you kind of passed right by the MEAT of my responses on it though. So its hard to untangle that now.

For example, Turboboosting and units moving flat out cannot go through difficult terain. So by just the virtue of that alone, you probably charge turn 3 unless the Tau player falls asleep (and hey, that happens). You kind of didn't seem to recognize what I was saying and that was just one example of how much we'd have to untangle for me to respond well.

I get that you feel that you can beat Tau. I think confidence is great. I just dont buy the whole "well unless its the NOVA, you can't even CLAIM to know what good IS". I think that's... Incorrect thinking. I think thats a charitable way to put it. 99.5% of the games people play aren't at the NOVA. Which means games "out there", just like these games he played, are the proving ground FOR the NOVA... Not the other way around.

Will he win? As Napolean and many others have acknowledged over time: "Success requires no explanation. Defeat allows none". His wins were earned just like yours always are. Accept them and improve by learning about what we do well in actual games. Or not.

I came here to read a battle report and get some insight on Tau methodology for the upcoming Alamo GT.......

And instead, I find that most of the text is this train wreck of an argument.

Kenny, it's not wonder you got banned. If DakkaDakka had a right mind, they'd go out of their way to IP ban you if possible.

Jazz, congratulations on finding your play-style niche. It's awesome when people can find just the right way that their army works for them and make it, in fact, work for them.

Jancoran, good job with the teaching, bud. Keep it up! He done right good, he did.

As for the validity of these results due to an "uncompetitive" selection of opponents..... People bring bad lists to tournaments all the time, but just because you place higher than them doesn't, nor should it, degrade the accomplishment. If he was someone completely new to the game (which is seems like he's pretty close due to what Janco said). You're trying to stir the gak, and quite frankly, it's immature, and I can't fathom why you went out of your way to create a new account for the explicit purpose of arguing with them.

FOR THE GREATER GOOD!

waffles i noticed that your thread doesnt actually have your list in it. In the link that you have provided you stated that the posted list isnt the one that you used for the games. could you please post it up here for us?

Its good to see and will give us a better understanding of your tactics when we know what tools you use.

I will edit it to have the list on the front page soon. I think there was a very small change, but I will have that list (my current list) up soon.

post deleted.

Kenny, I just want to figure something out. In a 1500 point game, what would a mech spam list look like? Maybe I have played it more than I think i have. Granted I have not played an ork biker list or a long fang list, but the reason why i dont know what i will do is because speculation gets you no where. I do not know what to do until the person puts the troop on the table and the game starts.

Like i said before, every game is different and to say "I will do this against this type of army" is stupid for there is no way to mentally prepare yourself for the infinite amount of scenarios.

The general Idea behind dealing with a lot of rhino's is to field by broadsides and my missile pod squad on the deployment, and start blasting them open for my other suits to come in and obliterate the squad inside. If there is heavy cover for him, I would deepstrike the MP squad behind the tanks on turn two. Good odds to have that work with the positional relay.

I have dealt with a mass load of 35 point trash cans on tracks. Its a pain, but it is survivable.

What exactly would you like to see me go against. If you want to post up a list, I am sure I can find a buddy around here that can play the list you post and I can truly see how the Tau fair against it instead of theoryhammering it to death.

Waffles


Also, kenny2? how many times are you gonna get banned before you realize what you are doing?

post deleted.

Sure. I can hop in a car and travel 2500 miles to a tournament. It is easy because I am in the sae country right? I would gladly go ifi had the money. I work part time and am a soldier, so funding is a huge issue for any tourney over 50 miles away.

I would love to go if someone would take me, lol. But I can only imagine I would sooner see pigs fly before someone funding me to play.

Sooo.... I posted the list some of you requested in another thread here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/436851.page

We can talk about it there if you like.

Also I blog on topics that get too long for forums so you may find that useful to read. I think I put it up before but here it is again. If I'm breaking a rule by putting this up, just nix it. I read something on the profile page that made me wonder but here it is.

www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

One last point. I had to alter the post I put up in Army Lists about this due to forum rules. Oops. So just letting you know in case in threw you. the original post had to ber deleted by rule and fixed. My apologies. Jazzpaintball, make sure to watch out for putting individual points costs up, if you did. Apparently, not good,.

Yes, we must maintain a bit of ambiguity so as to keep things friendly with GW. After all that material is covered under their copyrights.

Word. I get it totally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, there is a game that shows this. Its a battle report a guy7 did when I played against him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp78gM3Qt_Q

Loved the battle reports!

could have used a couple more pics but, i like how you have condensed the detail of what happen each turn.

i really enjoyed reading and didn't have to go through tons of text to find out what happened

concise and to the point. well done

And great to read some battle reports from a not so used army.

Winning with Tau is skillful reading battle reports like this one makes we want to play tau or eldar, someone who dosent just really on durable units to survive. (like my plauge marines)

but warhammer costs too much for me to get another force ( live in Australia)

again well done, sorry about your third game, the worst thing about 40k can sometimes be the people =(

Jancoran wrote:Word. I get it totally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, there is a game that shows this. Its a battle report a guy7 did when I played against him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp78gM3Qt_Q

I watched that battle report. Everything came out on turn 4, IIRC. I felt it was risky coming in so late, but you stuck to your game plan pulling out the victory.

Yeah and I was winning by 2 a fair amount of the game, but lost a little ground at the end. It was a good example of the tactica in action and not just talking about it, so I thought I'd post it. There are others floating out there. Perhaps if my friend puts his up, then you will be able to see it against another army.

The Battle Report was done by my friend, not me. He does them.

I find this all very interesting. I really like things that work and are diametrically opposed to what the 'internets' claim to be the gospel of 40k.

I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of folks are just regurgitating the material that they read somewhere else on a forum. Of course, I mean instead of speaking from actual experience or personal knowledge.

Love the thread! I learned a lot I play at Seattle Bunker hope to see you there sometime.

Feldmarshal Goehring wrote:I find this all very interesting. I really like things that work and are diametrically opposed to what the 'internets' claim to be the gospel of 40k.

I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of folks are just regurgitating the material that they read somewhere else on a forum. Of course, I mean instead of speaking from actual experience or personal knowledge.

I doubt seriously you're seeing what I do in many places, nor Jazzpaintball. My guess is we're in the minority. and by guess I mean, Ive been told flat out Im crazy a ton of times on innumerable forums. Except, of course, the one for our local gamers. They know.

I like your list alot - I dont think enough people max out on crisis battle suits - the best elites in town for tau !

Nice paintjob with your army the overall effect is pleasing

Jeah I like JazzPaintballs army too. It must have taken some serious time to do those tanks, if you look closely at them. His Crisis units no less so. I think he deserved better paint score than he got at our team tourney but wo doesn't feel that way on some level I suppose?

Jazzpaintball is getting better and better with each game too. Part of it is learning enemy codex's. thats pretty important.

Just a heads up:

Thanks for everyone who liked the battle report, and thanks for the suggestions on how to make it better.

I have another tourney this weekend and I will be using a slightly modified list. Same generic idea though. I will make sure to take more pictures and I will post it up early next week.

Thanks again guys,
Waffles

Git 'em. Bring home the gold!

WOW! I was at this tournament! You pulled out at 4th? Congrats dude!

He just won Best Overall with his Tau Saturday as well. Just FYI. He won't toot his own horn about it perhaps, but I will. Two strong showings in a row.