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Kroothawk wrote:If this is true, some people owe an apology to stickmonkey

By apology you mean curb stomp right? Cause his track record is still 98% wrong 1.5% kinda close .5% he knew it was a plastic kit being released.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:'Fall of Fliers' surely?

Seems a missed chance for alliteration and the whole fall/fly thing as well.

I just hope for an IG Thunderbolt, that is one smexy plane.

I agree I love the thunderbolt model, I own one of the forgeworld ones, its nice, but extremly fragile and I needed to have a custom base built so its a pain to transport.

cgage00 wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:If this is true, some people owe an apology to stickmonkey

By apology you mean curb stomp right? Cause his track record is still 98% wrong 1.5% kinda close .5% he knew it was a plastic kit being released.

That statement is about 1.5% right
Remember that he was the first to get the Necron release date exactly right ... one year in advance?

Harry wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:The Autumn of Fliers will be followed by the Winter of Tunnellers and then the Spring of Ships.

I fear (if I am wrong) the Autum of Fliers may be followed by the Winter of our miscontent.

That was awesome!

Certainly sig-worthy!

Thanks for stopping by and contributing to the Rumor Madness here - much appreciated!

Also, I really, REALLY hope this is a mini-Storm Bird design for the Marines.

The Storm Bird is an awesome vehicle, but impractical as it is larger than a Thunderhawk even.

A "Storm Hawk" based on the same design would be nice!

Kroothawk wrote:

cgage00 wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:If this is true, some people owe an apology to stickmonkey

By apology you mean curb stomp right? Cause his track record is still 98% wrong 1.5% kinda close .5% he knew it was a plastic kit being released.

That statement is about 1.5% right
Remember that he was the first to get the Necron release date exactly right ... one year in advance?

Ghost still has this problem with posting alot of incorrect rumours, with a few "rights" and "sort of rights" mixed in.

It makes one weary of him... Their was also that whole gak show that went down with him "sitting in on Black Libery IP meetings". Even if he's right about a flier supplement, it still means he posts alot of half truths.

AegisGrimm wrote:

Even though it is a superheavy, there is nothing ground breaking about it. It has about 8 more troop capacity than a Stormraven. Same armor front and side, less on rear. no melta defence, no machine spirit. Has one good gun (and unless you upgrade to the "D" weapon it is not over powered) a lascannon and 4 twin linked Heavy bolters compared to Twin las cannon, twin multimelta, 4 missiles. All for more than 4 times the point cost. So you have to kill it 3 times, hardly makes up for the difference.

If that's true than the T-Hawk is pretty nerfed compared to what it used to be back in the day (like 2nd edition). It used to carry three tactical squads(30 marines), had twin linked H-Bolters on each side of the nose, a twin-linked set of H-bolters under each wing, and a battlecannon on the dorsal mount flanked by two lascannons that fired as twin-linked. Plus I think it mounted rockets under the wings.

It's not true. It still carries 30, has 2 Lascannons(1 per wing) and 6 bombs or Hellstrike(unlimited range Krak) missiles in addition to the dorsal cannon and 4 sets of twin-linked Heavy Bolters, and has Ceramite Shielding(Meltas don't roll extra dice).

Platuan4th wrote:

AegisGrimm wrote:

Even though it is a superheavy, there is nothing ground breaking about it. It has about 8 more troop capacity than a Stormraven. Same armor front and side, less on rear. no melta defence, no machine spirit. Has one good gun (and unless you upgrade to the "D" weapon it is not over powered) a lascannon and 4 twin linked Heavy bolters compared to Twin las cannon, twin multimelta, 4 missiles. All for more than 4 times the point cost. So you have to kill it 3 times, hardly makes up for the difference.

If that's true than the T-Hawk is pretty nerfed compared to what it used to be back in the day (like 2nd edition). It used to carry three tactical squads(30 marines), had twin linked H-Bolters on each side of the nose, a twin-linked set of H-bolters under each wing, and a battlecannon on the dorsal mount flanked by two lascannons that fired as twin-linked. Plus I think it mounted rockets under the wings.

It's not true. It still carries 30, has 2 Lascannons(1 per wing) and 6 bombs or Hellstrike(unlimited range Krak) missiles in addition to the dorsal cannon and 4 sets of twin-linked Heavy Bolters, and has Ceramite Shielding(Meltas don't roll extra dice).

One massive reason I can see the TH not becoming plastic is the size of the thing its over 12" long that means it will not be able to deploy in normal games of 40k unless they do something simular to the current flyer rules. Plus judging by the number of the forge world ones sold do they really want to miss out on people paying £400?

I think some form of ground attack verient of a storm raven is coming, all SM vehicles use the hull more than once and that's the only thing that doesn't so far, cheap for them to make the kit as it will just be an extra sprew no doubt.

Lockark wrote:member that he was the first to get the Necron release date exactly right ... one year in advance?

Ghost still has this problem with posting alot of incorrect rumours, with a few "rights" and "sort of rights" mixed in.

It makes one weary of him... Their was also that whole gak show that went down with him "sitting in on Black Libery IP meetings". Even if he's right about a flier supplement, it still means he posts alot of half truths.

Lockark wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

cgage00 wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:If this is true, some people owe an apology to stickmonkey

By apology you mean curb stomp right? Cause his track record is still 98% wrong 1.5% kinda close .5% he knew it was a plastic kit being released.

That statement is about 1.5% right
Remember that he was the first to get the Necron release date exactly right ... one year in advance?

Ghost still has this problem with posting alot of incorrect rumours, with a few "rights" and "sort of rights" mixed in.

It makes one weary of him... Their was also that whole gak show that went down with him "sitting in on Black Libery IP meetings". Even if he's right about a flier supplement, it still means he posts alot of half truths.

I think you're confusing Ghost and Stickmonkey. The flier rumours have now come from at least Stickmonkey, Harry, Darnok and StraightSilver, so that's enough credible sources for me to at least indicate something flier related is coming, even if it won't be next fall.

Kroothawk wrote:

cgage00 wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:If this is true, some people owe an apology to stickmonkey

By apology you mean curb stomp right? Cause his track record is still 98% wrong 1.5% kinda close .5% he knew it was a plastic kit being released.

That statement is about 1.5% right
Remember that he was the first to get the Necron release date exactly right ... one year in advance?

I did the same thing almost to the date. Don't believe me check my post history. So again he got1 thing right. Yet every year for the last 3-4 years he posted a list of coders to be released and ever year it is wrong. This year was so dead wrong it wasn't funny. The. Yes summer of fliers where space marines would all get storm ravens and ig gets hydras in plastic. Tyranid harpies? What about black Templars out 2 weeks ago was it? Then jumped on the dark angel ban wagon? Now the chaos one? Or let's go back to his he was the secret gw worker claiming he was in England but posting froma Texas ip address... Ya I don't believe a word that guy says. He just runs his mouth hoping its right.

Also don't mean to be a total jerk about it but the stick monkey fan boys drive me nuts.

AegisGrimm wrote:

Even though it is a superheavy, there is nothing ground breaking about it. It has about 8 more troop capacity than a Stormraven. Same armor front and side, less on rear. no melta defence, no machine spirit. Has one good gun (and unless you upgrade to the "D" weapon it is not over powered) a lascannon and 4 twin linked Heavy bolters compared to Twin las cannon, twin multimelta, 4 missiles. All for more than 4 times the point cost. So you have to kill it 3 times, hardly makes up for the difference.

If that's true than the T-Hawk is pretty nerfed compared to what it used to be back in the day (like 2nd edition). It used to carry three tactical squads(30 marines), had twin linked H-Bolters on each side of the nose, a twin-linked set of H-bolters under each wing, and a battlecannon on the dorsal mount flanked by two lascannons that fired as twin-linked. Plus I think it mounted rockets under the wings.

I forgot about the missiles/bombs when I made the last post. As for the 30 transport do the math. A stormraven carries 12 + a dreadnought. You put the same in a THawk and you have 8 left. 12 + 10 (dreadnought) is 22 which so hapens to be 8 less than the THawk. Unless you upgrade the main weapon to a "d" weapon as I stated before it is not better than 4 Stormravens, which just so happens to be less points. It is no way overpowered for a regular game. If your opponent spends half his points on a single transport you should thank him not complain. Anyways I want them for apoc personally.

Bikeninja wrote:I believe that description of the StormHawk that Harry posted comes from the description of the vehicle created by the Tempus Fugitives in their Age of the Emperor campaign. It only hit me because I played one the other day in an army list I built. You guys may know better than me but apparently alot of what the Tempus Fugitives do apparently sees print in one way or another for GW. Thanks Harry.

no, not just them it's also mentioned in A Thousand Sons

darknightwing wrote:

AegisGrimm wrote:

Even though it is a superheavy, there is nothing ground breaking about it. It has about 8 more troop capacity than a Stormraven. Same armor front and side, less on rear. no melta defence, no machine spirit. Has one good gun (and unless you upgrade to the "D" weapon it is not over powered) a lascannon and 4 twin linked Heavy bolters compared to Twin las cannon, twin multimelta, 4 missiles. All for more than 4 times the point cost. So you have to kill it 3 times, hardly makes up for the difference.

If that's true than the T-Hawk is pretty nerfed compared to what it used to be back in the day (like 2nd edition). It used to carry three tactical squads(30 marines), had twin linked H-Bolters on each side of the nose, a twin-linked set of H-bolters under each wing, and a battlecannon on the dorsal mount flanked by two lascannons that fired as twin-linked. Plus I think it mounted rockets under the wings.

I forgot about the missiles/bombs when I made the last post. As for the 30 transport do the math. A stormraven carries 12 + a dreadnought. You put the same in a THawk and you have 8 left. 12 + 10 (dreadnought) is 22 which so hapens to be 8 less than the THawk. Unless you upgrade the main weapon to a "d" weapon as I stated before it is not better than 4 Stormravens, which just so happens to be less points. It is no way overpowered for a regular game. If your opponent spends half his points on a single transport you should thank him not complain. Anyways I want them for apoc personally.

You can only hit the th on a 6 plus you gotta minus 12 from your range and can only do glancing damage sure tis fine in a normal game

This whbole thread is about flyers coming to regular 40k, did you miss that part? So the stormraven would have all that as well. Assuming of course they update the flyers that have been released.

cgage00 wrote:By apology you mean curb stomp right?

cgage00 wrote:Also don't mean to be a total jerk about it

Does not compute ...

Quark wrote:

cgage00 wrote:By apology you mean curb stomp right?

cgage00 wrote:Also don't mean to be a total jerk about it

Does not compute ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

darknightwing wrote:This whbole thread is about flyers coming to regular 40k, did you miss that part? So the stormraven would have all that as well. Assuming of course they update the flyers that have been released.

Thats a good point

Maybe the point cost of the TH would come down. Although I expect GW to keep that for Apoc games and we could see a more aggressive stormraven variant

I thought it had been confirmed that GW would not produce anything that is existance in the FW line after they made the banblades and stormlords.... basically, you pay £400 quid for a thunderhawk, a plastic one maybe 1/4 that. I'm pretty sure I read that wouldn't be happening, ever! That would probably go for thunderbolts and lightning (very very frightening) too. Unless FW drop them because they don't sell as often???

I'd love to see ork flyers. They'd have to be in skwadrons though... there may end up being a new kit for deffkoptas when AOBR disappears. Who knows?

I cannot see FW selling more than a couple of THawks a year.
They come out with a plastic kit under $200 and they will sell alot of them.
I can see it happening at some point

Kroothawk wrote:If this is true, some people owe an apology to stickmonkey

And then Harry drops this little bomb (bolded the important part)

Harry wrote:It is easily done. Folks see stuff/hear about stuff that is clearly done they naturally assume it is just around the corner. It just doesn't always work that way. So sometimes a model is just the first thing done that is part of a two or three year project so the fact that it is finished is neither here nor there .... it arrives with the rest of the stuff when it is scheduled to do so.

I know about lots of stuff that is done but have no idea of the order. Thats the tricky bit.
So Stickmonkey can be forgiven for getting ahead of himself.
I did contact him when he first started to urge caution about assuming things he had seen were happening....

... and again when the 'summer of flyers, didn't happen to reassure him that he was, essentially, correct but had just shot his bolt a bit early.

it is entirely possible I am doing exactly the same thing! (I don't have a great track record on the timings of 40K stuff)

Well, maybe not a bomb...more like some humble pie. So I guess we can all put our sticks away now

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lockark wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

cgage00 wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:If this is true, some people owe an apology to stickmonkey

By apology you mean curb stomp right? Cause his track record is still 98% wrong 1.5% kinda close .5% he knew it was a plastic kit being released.

That statement is about 1.5% right
Remember that he was the first to get the Necron release date exactly right ... one year in advance?

Ghost still has this problem with posting alot of incorrect rumours, with a few "rights" and "sort of rights" mixed in.

It makes one weary of him... Their was also that whole gak show that went down with him "sitting in on Black Libery IP meetings". Even if he's right about a flier supplement, it still means he posts alot of half truths.

...are we talking about StickMonkey...or Ghost21. Because they are two differnet people. Kroothawk is talking about StickMonkey who was the first to predict a "Summer of Fliers"...which never panned out as an independant supplement. Ghost21 was a prolific rumor poster who got into the IP meeting dispute and who ended up admitting that he made his rumors up (excepting DreadFleet) after being called out by several other rumor moungers on Warseer.

Quark wrote:

cgage00 wrote:By apology you mean curb stomp right?

cgage00 wrote:Also don't mean to be a total jerk about it

Does not compute ...

I meant to kroothawk. I didn't want to be a jerk to him stickmonkey can rot.

wyomingfox wrote:
. Ghost21 was a prolific rumor poster who got into the IP meeting dispute and who ended up admitting that he made his rumors up (excepting DreadFleet) after being called out by a known Black Library author on Warseer.

Fixed.

geordie09 wrote:I thought it had been confirmed that GW would not produce anything that is existance in the FW line after they made the banblades and stormlords.... basically, you pay £400 quid for a thunderhawk, a plastic one maybe 1/4 that. I'm pretty sure I read that wouldn't be happening, ever! That would probably go for thunderbolts and lightning (very very frightening) too. Unless FW drop them because they don't sell as often???

I'd love to see ork flyers. They'd have to be in skwadrons though... there may end up being a new kit for deffkoptas when AOBR disappears. Who knows?

Then what happened with the Trygon and Valkyrie?

geordie09 wrote:I thought it had been confirmed that GW would not produce anything that is existance in the FW line after they made the banblades and stormlords.... basically, you pay £400 quid for a thunderhawk, a plastic one maybe 1/4 that. I'm pretty sure I read that wouldn't be happening, ever!

Theodore Bruckner would like a word with you about the Empire starting a breeding program with Reaper...

SickSix wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:
. Ghost21 was a prolific rumor poster who got into the IP meeting dispute and who ended up admitting that he made his rumors up (excepting DreadFleet) after being called out by a known Black Library author on Warseer.

Fixed.

Actually, Ghost21 didn't admit to lieing at the time of said arguement with ADB. As well, Ghost still had a good following on the Warseer forums following that episode (and I will admitt that I still had faith that some of his other rumors would come true).

I was actually refering to Ghost21 being called out by Hastings (out-and-out implied even though Hastings didn't name any names), which was what actually caused Warseer to start a thread about the validity of rumors at the time (of which Ghost21's in particular were called out). This was the thread where Ghost21 finally admitted to lieing (quite a spell after the whole ADB fiasco).

Anyways, this is all history.

All this "insert season" of fliers thingy is getting a little tedious...

1.) While ghost21 once admitted that he made things up, some days later he retracted this statement. Seems you can't trust his statements
2.) Even if he made up rumours, not everything he said has to be false, as he was aware of existing rumours. In other words, even made up rumours can be true. That's why even Harry still lists some of ghost21's rumours, although a couple of them are now identified as false. I think most of them are. No surprise given the number of rumours on any topic he produced for a couple of months.
3.) Stickmonkey has a source very early in the production process. If not everything turns out true within certain time limits, it can be because there have been changes in the meantime, the schedule was wrong (there are currently a lot of completed models just waiting for a release date) and of course the usual blurr of rumours. harry and I don't think that he makes up rumours.
4.) The "summer of fliers" rumour didn't start as a rumour. It started as an explicit speculation by stickmonkey, who was aware of 7 fliers in the works or close to completion. Since then 2 fliers and a flying monstrous creature have been released (a third one delayed because of production difficulties), two more revealed for a release in May, more to come. Keep in mind that the speculation started before the Storm Raven release and before release schedules were messed up by GW Legal's reactions during the Chapterhouse lawsuit (now GW has hired new lawyers and released the first delayed models in March).
5.) Rumour business got more difficult with GW's anti-word-of-mouth-campaign. And rumours are not proven facts. So you have to accept a certain margin of error more than ever.

But all this is off topic. Just wanted to express my views on a few things.

Aahhh...the days of Rogue Trader

krazynadechukr wrote:Aahhh...the days of Rogue Trader

That does not look legit. Looks like something from BoLS really. If it really was from 1st/2nd edition, it would not be a superheavy flier with hover mode, ceramite armor, ect. Those are more modern rules that forgeworld first started using. This looks fan made.

As for Storm Ravens vs Thunderhawk, the THawk also has the advantage of being a superheavy- structure points, damage control, fully splitting fire, Primary weapon saves, ect.

I have no idea why anyone would want to play a game on a four foot by six foot table with something the size of a thunderhawk. I imagine we won't see any new space marine model for a flier, but rather see the storm raven become a fixture of all of the marine codexes at some point.