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Kasrkin229 wrote:Once a traitor always a traitor , dispatch them at the bayounet of a lasgun

If you stabbed an Alpha Legionnaire with a lasgun bayonet you would most likely break it, then the Legionnaire would just laugh and punch you in the face

I like the grey areas of the Alpha Legion. No-one knows them, and I love that this speculation comes up every now and again, with as many different theories as there are people to give them

Mis-direction and hiding their true intentions are the Alpha Legions modus operandi This extends to the info available for them, which is just awesome

Well... i hate how gw ignores them. Maybe theyre waiting for the horus heresy to pan out and then theyll try to make money off of alpha and omegus

Games workshop will wait until the first 40k players die from old age before even telling us anything to progress the plot.

Brother Thomas wrote:Well... i hate how gw ignores them. Maybe theyre waiting for the horus heresy to pan out and then theyll try to make money off of alpha and omegus

Uh dude, every other character you read about is an Alp...... GNHHHHHH /dead

Apothecary8404Talos wrote:So we know that The Alpha Legion sided with Horus with the intentions of saving the Imperium, but since that Alpharious is dead or possibly Omegon is the deceased one, does The Alpha Legion still retain their original commitment to the Imperium of man? Or have they fallen so far from their original goal of "destroying Chaos from within"? OR is GW to say it's all just a Tzeentch plot? Haha I want to know your views and opinions fellow wargamers.

Hm.. You think one of them is dead, But is he really? You don't know if they've sided or chaos or not. It really seems like they did huh? Thats all part of there plan. Its there tactic. I say they are loyalists till the end and they've just got everyone fooled.


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ineptus astartes wrote:Games workshop will wait until the first 40k players die from old age before even telling us anything to progress the plot.

LMFAO

djones520 wrote:There is no question about it. The Alpha Legion are traitors. They didn't turn to serve the Imperium. They turned to save the galaxy. Alpharius was shown what would happen to the Galaxy if the Emperor won, and what would happen if Horus won. The better outcome for the galaxy as a whole (of the two options) was Horus winning. What he wasn't shown was the actual outcome, ie Horus losing, but the Emperor being mortally wounded and no longer guiding the Imperium.

So yes, the Legion is a traitor, and in essence their reason for doing so was pointless since it never came to pass.

The bit you have wrong is they didn't turn to save the galaxy. You're right though that they didn't turn to save the Imperium. They did it to serve the Emperor. There's a difference between serving the Emperor and serving the Imperium. They saw it as their duty to help carry out the Emperors objective, or what the Cabal told them was the Emperors objective,the destruction of the Primordial Annihilator. While it's very likely the Cabal skewed this view enough to get them on their side, the intentions of the Alpha Legion were extremely loyal. While the end result would have been the destruction of mankind after a breif moment of agony under Horus's rule, they would be spared millenia of agony under the Imperiums rule without the Emperor, and while the Emperor would die, his goal would be accomplished.

Their intentions were loyal, even if they were taking the extreme route. Whether they got correct information from the Cabal, or whether they're still loyal, we don't, and probably won't, know.

Lorgars comments towards the Alpha Legion about Aliens who seek to subvert humans makes me think that they had nothing but contempt for the Xenos Cabal. The fact that they threw the cabal out of the airlock so my conclusion is they were only using them. Alpharious said war is the galaxies hygiene so my conclusion is he saw the heresy as an opportunity to purge the Imperium of its weakness before united humanity in order to seek out and destroy all intelligent alien life. I think he heard the warning the Cabal gave him and decided that Chaos would be a great weapon for humanity to wield

I like the idea that they are loyal, loyal to the Emperor. They've done atrocious things, they've committed evil acts, they've scoured their very souls with the crys of the innocent, and they've gained the trust of the chaos gods themselves. Everything they've done (this is just my opinion, obviously) has been to put themselves in a position to strike at chaos in their signature way. That is from all sides, including from within.

I like this line of thought for several reasons. It allows AL to do anything in the name of chaos in order to earn its trust. It also sets up a pleasing, to me at least, scenario for the next big scene in the 40k epic. We all know GW isnt going to progress the storyline anytime soon, so somebody has to. I like the idea of a huge re-commencement of major conflict. The deamon prince traitor primarchs burst from the eye at the head of their reassembled legions. The loyalist primarchs return/wake up/heal/resurrect from warp imprisonment (ie sanguinor=Sangiunius soul sucked into the warp), reassemble their marines into legions (smurph primarch can be woken up last as to hear the least amount of his b$&@#ing about this). As the lines are drawn and the sides are charging towards each other, AL take the advantage they've been patiently waiting and working for for 10k years.

Just my 2 cents.

They clearly are not doing what the Emperor commands so they are traitors.

That they may have mankind's best interest at heart is irrelevant. I am sure the Emperor's Children and Death Guard think they have mankind's best interest at heart as well.

Exergy wrote:They clearly are not doing what the Emperor commands so they are traitors.

That they may have mankind's best interest at heart is irrelevant. I am sure the Emperor's Children and Death Guard think they have mankind's best interest at heart as well.

See, that's where I think you may have it backwards. They could care less for mankind, ie the imperium. It's the Emperor they're loyal to (if indeed they are still loyal)

Exergy wrote:They clearly are not doing what the Emperor commands so they are traitors.

That they may have mankind's best interest at heart is irrelevant. I am sure the Emperor's Children and Death Guard think they have mankind's best interest at heart as well.

They don't have to do what the emperor commands to be for the emperor, plenty of good things came from doing the opposite of what he said. For example Malcador reversed the whole Nikea thing and without that there wouldn't be librarians!

Don't quite agree with the EC having mankind's interest at heart... didn't some of their champions distill citizens to make elixers?

Don't forget that after Deliverance Lost . Spoiler tag for those who havent read the book



Just a thought i had..

They could care less for mankind, ie the imperium. It's the Emperor they're loyal to (if indeed they are still loyal)

So you believ their xenos lovers who want to kill off humanity to make the galaxy safe for orks.

Phiasco II wrote:

Exergy wrote:They clearly are not doing what the Emperor commands so they are traitors.

That they may have mankind's best interest at heart is irrelevant. I am sure the Emperor's Children and Death Guard think they have mankind's best interest at heart as well.

See, that's where I think you may have it backwards. They could care less for mankind, ie the imperium. It's the Emperor they're loyal to (if indeed they are still loyal)

And the Emperor commanded them to protect the Imperium.

In fact, that is the only reason most Space Marines protect the Imperium. They are perfectly aware that this current thing is not what the Emperor wanted, but he did want them to protect it.

The Alpha Legion, on the other hand, is not protecting the Imperium. They also are not protecting humanity. They strengthen Chaos at the expense of all else. There's no way to construe this as a positive thing.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Phiasco II wrote:

Exergy wrote:They clearly are not doing what the Emperor commands so they are traitors.

That they may have mankind's best interest at heart is irrelevant. I am sure the Emperor's Children and Death Guard think they have mankind's best interest at heart as well.

See, that's where I think you may have it backwards. They could care less for mankind, ie the imperium. It's the Emperor they're loyal to (if indeed they are still loyal)

And the Emperor commanded them to protect the Imperium.

In fact, that is the only reason most Space Marines protect the Imperium. They are perfectly aware that this current thing is not what the Emperor wanted, but he did want them to protect it.

The Alpha Legion, on the other hand, is not protecting the Imperium. They also are not protecting humanity. They strengthen Chaos at the expense of all else. There's no way to construe this as a positive thing.

Were they told to protect he imperium? Or was the goal still to spread the Imperium? I was under the assumption that the legions were spearheading the crusade, and were only called back to take care of an insurrection or whatever that the normal human forces couldn't handle.

In any case, the Emperor's grand vision was to defeat chaos, which he was well on his way to accomplishing. The AL made a tough decision and decided that to best serve the Emperor was to work for his greater goal. Good or bad, that was the decision they made.

Half and half.

Who knows? We, the readers certainly don't (despite the supposedly definitive claims vociferously made in this thread).

Frankly, their present ambiguity is more interesting than any conclusive answer.

Traitolists?

Phiasco II wrote:
In any case, the Emperor's grand vision was to defeat chaos, which he was well on his way to accomplishing. The AL made a tough decision and decided that to best serve the Emperor was to work for his greater goal.

By starting chaos cults and summoning daemons? I think you missed a logical step somewhere.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Phiasco II wrote:
In any case, the Emperor's grand vision was to defeat chaos, which he was well on his way to accomplishing. The AL made a tough decision and decided that to best serve the Emperor was to work for his greater goal.

By starting chaos cults and summoning daemons? I think you missed a logical step somewhere.

No, I think my logic is sound. They don't really care about the imperium, it's become the very thing the crusade was fighting against. So starting cults and summoning daemons is a very useful tool. Infiltrating chaos is not something easily done. To fool the very gods of chaos themselves you'd need to go deep undercover. When the opportune moment arrives, AL will strike at chaos from all sides, including their signature move of striking from within. That's just IMO of course, and assumes that they have stayed loyal. But I like the idea, so that's what I'll go with untill/unless we get official word otherwise.

Considering that Alpha Legion cells operate independently, it is very likely that there are some groups that are doing exactly what you suggest, and likewise others who have gone flying rodent gak crazy.

Fair enough.

Wait until you read the story about them in "The Primarchs".

Head explode time...

Still 100% irrelevant, that was 10 thousand years and a primarch ago.

In fact, that is the only reason most Space Marines protect the Imperium. They are perfectly aware that this current thing is not what the Emperor wanted, but he did want them to protect it.

I hear this sentiment a lot, that the Emperor never intended for the Imperium to be so heartless, its even echoed by the servants of Emperor, even mutants, so many stories of mutants who really believe that the emperor loves them, even when ever single Guardsman, Inquisitor, and Space Marine thinks their at best useful slaves.

If you think that the Inquisition is some form of deviation from the Emperor then why did he have them founded? Why did he have himself connected to the Golden Throne knowing that he would be sustained souls mainly belonging to children? The notions of genetic purity and Xenophobia that the Imperium hold come directly form the Emperors teachings, in False Gods Abbadon even gets angry with Horus for not adhering to the Imperium strict policy regarding Xenos. If he's such a humanitarian who cares about the little guy why did he order the Night Lords to commit atrocities that even bother Konrad Curze to commit? Why did he wait a century before censuring the World Eaters for their crimes? The Emperor was a expert politician who knew when to cry outrage. Its everyone else fault but him when a world burns, whether its the Night Lords , or the Inquisition , it’s always someone but the guy feasting on the souls of children who is responsible for the excesses of the Imperium.

I dunno, space marines can be kinda stubborn. If anyone could hold onto a purpose for 10k years it would be them.

Mabe the Ultramarines, but aside from them, I mean come on look at the Black Templars, they seem to have no trouble with mass genocides in the name of the God Emporer, same with the Blood Angels.

ZSO SAHALL wrote:

In fact, that is the only reason most Space Marines protect the Imperium. They are perfectly aware that this current thing is not what the Emperor wanted, but he did want them to protect it.

I hear this sentiment a lot, that the Emperor never intended for the Imperium to be so heartless, its even echoed by the servants of Emperor, even mutants, so many stories of mutants who really believe that the emperor loves them, even when ever single Guardsman, Inquisitor, and Space Marine thinks their at best useful slaves.

Their duty is to the Imperium that exists, because duty to an Imperium that never happened is pointless.

ZSO SAHALL wrote:
If you think that the Inquisition is some form of deviation from the Emperor then why did he have them founded?

He didn't. He just nodded when someone else suggested it was a good idea.

Just my .02 from reading Legion, Deliverance and all the other hh novels. I personally believe that the original intent was to not fall to chaos but also not support the emperor. I think Omegon, who gets pretty nuts in deliverance, falls to chaos and drags some of the legion with him, which would explain why the Alpha Legion end game they discussed with the Kabul never comes to fruition.

Could be totally wrong of course but that's what I have theorized so far.

DarknessEternal wrote:Still 100% irrelevant, that was 10 thousand years and a primarch ago.

Still 100% wrong, actually, as we don't know much about their Primarch(s)'s final fate(s), motivations, etc, at all, and time flows a lot differently in the warp.

Have you read Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Night Lords trilogy?

Nowhere near close to 10K years has passed for them.

At the end of the day, no one knows anything definitively at all about... anything, sort of!

It is part of the fun, and part of the pain!