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Smitty0305 wrote:I was kidding lol, the tournament standings were already posted and I didnt want to spoilz it =p .

Honestly pretty amazing job. Bravo! Your last GT and this report are a real blast to read.

Whats your wargaming history? Is this year the first year your contending in top spots for large tournies, or have you been doing that for a while?

Are you going to WarGamesCon?

Is that the one in Austin. I have played with the idea of going but that is a 12 hour drive and finances might keep me from attending. I have played fantasy since 2003 but didnt start playing 40k until February of 2010 when a friend dragged me to a tournament and gave me some CSM to play and I managed 2nd as I learned how to play on the fly . I think what really helps me is I used to play Empire in warhammer fantasy back in the days when you had to guess range and I was dam good at it. Now using that same practice and applying to 40k and I never really miss opportunities to shoot something as I am a good judge of how close I am or how far something is from me. As for big tournaments. Besides ard boyz last year and the bugeater this is my first year in the tournament scene.

So far starting with the last ardboz:
Ard boyz pre-lims 2nd with my CSM(they were the easiest to ship to me as I was stuck in FT lewis for the summer)
Ard Boyz Semi's: 1st with the 56th (nice IG prize support)
Ard Boyz Finals: 2-1 (lost game 3 to DoW Annihalation against hiding draigowing now you know why my army is kitted to kill draigo and company)
Indy GT: 5-1 (lost at final table)
Adepticon Qualifier: 4-0
Adepticon Finals: (To be reported but I am not sure I should given the negativity of the game. Put it this way rounds = 2:30 minutes in length. Opponent reserves entire army and only gets 2 units on turn 2 and then nearly all of his army on turn 3 and he was playing battlewagon orks. I shoot once on top of 4 and then he gets his last battlewagon in on bottom of 4 and game ends. I shot once all game. looking at my camera logs his turn 3 alone took over 1 hour.)

anton wrote:The last battle was was EPIC, nice to see, good IG play btw

Thanks, I have played them enough now that I know every weakness and strength of the army so I like to think I have an advantage in IG vs IG match-ups. Though it does help going first.

Great reports!

It sucks that you and your 4th round opponent rubbed eachother wrong. Hopefully it was all the travel/all day gaming that drained the life out of you guys.

They ruled at this tournament that vendetta could not hang over the edge. which was happening but the kicker... he was allowed to be within 1" of my vendetta hull based on the reasoning that the inat faq said he could be under my wing and he was not within 1" of my flying base.

This is how I normally play it/I've had it ruled like this before. I understand this ruling

Then my opponent tried to argue that he could give orders to his CCS that are embarked in a chimera

He can give orders OUT of the Chimera to squads on the ground, but not embarked units in vehicles. This I agree with.


You both seemed drained and a bit hostile. Was this a minor victory for you?

Auxellion wrote:Great reports!

It sucks that you and your 4th round opponent rubbed eachother wrong. Hopefully it was all the travel/all day gaming that drained the life out of you guys.

They ruled at this tournament that vendetta could not hang over the edge. which was happening but the kicker... he was allowed to be within 1" of my vendetta hull based on the reasoning that the inat faq said he could be under my wing and he was not within 1" of my flying base.

This is how I normally play it/I've had it ruled like this before. I understand this ruling

Then my opponent tried to argue that he could give orders to his CCS that are embarked in a chimera

He can give orders OUT of the Chimera to squads on the ground, but not embarked units in vehicles. This I agree with.


You both seemed drained and a bit hostile. Was this a minor victory for you?

Yes, he can give orders out of chimera to squads all he wants. His argument was that he could give it to himself inside the chimera.

As for the vendetta thing there is nothing in the rules that states you can be within 1" of a hull at anytime. It does allow you to go under the wings etc.. but doesnt allow you to break the rule disallowing you to be within 1" of an enemy unit.

As for the victory yes I managed to hold onto the victory even though he captured one and contested the other objectives tying that particular mission up on the last turn. Had the game ended the turn before I would of won 1 to 0 via objectives. Had the thing gone one more turn I probably could of won 2 to 1 killing his squad in the middle via the flamers.

TombKing
Congrats on making top 16. Great reports.

IMO the regular comissar and not being able to be picked out in combat trumps the ld10 and camo cloak of the lord. Officer of the Fleet is something I can't seem to fit in my lists either unless its like 2k.

Have to say Congrats on winning vs two MSU Coteaz grey knights. I have a very hard time with MSU Coteaz grey knights vs yermom and avariel. I haven't been able to win a GK match is going second, if they have servo skulls you have to outflank your vendettas since you can't scout to get a cover save and only get 1 shot when you come on from reserves and its really hard with their firepower and fortitude.

Looks like I will have to take another look at running a Demolisher. Yours really seemed pretty good in the games you played. I been running 2 Manticores for redundancy and they really help out vs hordes and land raiders. I experimented with Creed and the outflanking Demolishers back in 2009 but it was fun however cost way to many points.

IG mirrors now seem to give a huge advantage to the person going first since with your demo vets forcing the second player to reserve. If Vendettas could fire all 3 las cannons while outflanking this evens things a bit.

Really like the fluff and the names for the vehicles. The Demolisher being the hammer and the Manticore is the four horsemman with the missle being famine, pestilence is awesome.

Ricedaddy
I'll take a look at your list also.

Kirika wrote:TombKing
Congrats on making top 16. Great reports.

IMO the regular comissar and not being able to be picked out in combat trumps the ld10 and camo cloak of the lord. Officer of the Fleet is something I can't seem to fit in my lists either unless its like 2k.

Kirika wrote:
Have to say Congrats on winning vs two MSU Coteaz grey knights. I have a very hard time with MSU Coteaz grey knights vs yermom and avariel. I haven't been able to win a GK match is going second, if they have servo skulls you have to outflank your vendettas since you can't scout to get a cover save and only get 1 shot when you come on from reserves and its really hard with their firepower and fortitude.

Ya, the servo skulls can be a real pain in the arse. I usually just outflank with the vendetta if no scout move is available and try to take out his heavy hitters some before they arrive. They kind of nix are vendetta's for the most part with servo skulls. Fortitude is more broken then dumb or fortune imho it is the best power in the game.

Kirika wrote:
Looks like I will have to take another look at running a Demolisher. Yours really seemed pretty good in the games you played. I been running 2 Manticores for redundancy and they really help out vs hordes and land raiders. I experimented with Creed and the outflanking Demolishers back in 2009 but it was fun however cost way to many points.

Ya, Creed is just too expensive to take unless your running 2500pt + games. In addition, he is best suited for a foot heavy guard army. I love my demolisher the reason I take it over another manticore is AP2 and 14 armor that I can shove down my opponents throat.

Kirika wrote:
IG mirrors now seem to give a huge advantage to the person going first since with your demo vets forcing the second player to reserve. If Vendettas could fire all 3 las cannons while outflanking this evens things a bit.

Again I agree. I went second at the INDY GT against a dual manticore guard army and it nearly cost me the game. Going first in this addition is big across the board though and not just in guard on guard match ups.

Kirika wrote:
Really like the fluff and the names for the vehicles. The Demolisher being the hammer and the Manticore is the four horsemman with the missle being famine, pestilence is awesome.

Ya, deep down I am a bit of a fluff guy. I buy the codices and read the fluff on them before reading the army characteristics and options. It is partly why I never started a grey knight army. There fluff sucks and the army breaks the game.
My manticore actually has each of the horseman written on the color coordinated missiles.

Brett, this is Paul from our game #4 match from the 40K Championships. Against my better judgment, I am going to respond to your assessment of our game. I initially felt a bit apprehensive but your battle report left me with little choice in that I now have an obligation to respond to stand up for myself and for what I believe happened during our match. Let me preface by stating that I have never entertained a discussion like this before nor have I ever posted anything online in this regard so please bear with me.

I want to start by stating that I respectfully disagree with some of the points you made throughout your report. I believe you have provided some distortions of the facts and I am going to try and provide a bit more detail to clear up any misinformation as I feel I have been unjustly maligned. Don't get me wrong here Brett, we all want to come out ahead and be victorious at the end of the day, but it's the manner in which you go about doing so. Let me explain as best I can.

To start, your battle report neglects to mention one of the most important points of our game. On the bottom of turn #2, prior to my Vendetta outflanking which happened to be my first move onto the board, I stated to you after my reserves rolls were made that I was going to move on and shoot with everything. Immediately after the outflanking Vendetta ruling went in my favor, which again was my first move onto the board, you mentioned to me directly to “pick up the speed of the game.” I said no problem Brett as we were indeed running a bit behind schedule. In an effort of trying to accommodate you, I did move on but with a bit too much haste. As a result, I did not realize initially that I moved a bit extra with both sets of Hydras and one CCS in a Chimera. My Hydras and CCS, at the very most, were right around 7.25 inches or less up the board, not the 10 inches as you have stated. Just look at the pictures you took after my reserves came in during my movement phase. Can you honestly say to yourself that those models look ten inches up the board? My intentions were made known to you prior to coming on the board from reserve that I was going to shoot with everything. As you can imagine, I was somewhat stunned when you went on to say that I could not fire both squadrons of Hydras because I moved over six inches. Regardless of what I told you of my intentions and how I was speeding up my play to try and accommodate you, you wanted to hear none of it. With the two of us being IG players, we both know how this works as there would be no reason for me to move my Hydras or CCS more than 6 inches. Yes, I did indeed move more than I should have and at the end of the day this is my fault and I should have known better. And by the rules you are indeed correct and firing would not have been possible. However, my intentions were made known to you prior, not to mention that I was trying to speed up the game per your request. At that point unfortunately it became very clear to me that you would do just about anything to get an upper hand. At the end of the day Brett, you make your own choices.

Another example was when my Hydras were targeting your Vendetta directly across from them in turn#3. You stated that you should get 5+ cover as you felt we couldn’t come to an agreement on whether or not you should get cover. This is what the rulebook recommends if it’s unclear whether a unit is obscured, but my Hydras had completely clear lines of sight so I decided to grab a judge. While this is in the rulebook, you were clearly trying to exploit the rules themselves by simply stating that because we could not agree that you should automatically receive 5+ cover. The Adepticon judge came over and ruled in my favor by stating I had clear lines of sight with both models.

There are some other points where I found or what appeared to me were inaccuracies. My Vendetta which outflanked was at no point hanging off the table edge as you claim, nor was my base or hull within one inch of your Vendetta’s base and hull. You seem to forget that both Adepticon judges ruled that my Vendetta's placement was perfectly legal. With regards to giving myself orders from within the Chimera, I stand corrected on this ruling Brett, as I have always believed that this was possible and I apologized afterwards for the mishap. Another minor point, my first set of Hydras were third in line to shoot, behind my PCS and CCS squad, in the bottom of #2. Not nearly towards the end of my shooting phase as you mentioned. Unfortunately, the Hydras never had a chance to shoot that turn. Motto of the story: take your time.

Lastly, you mention that some individual next to you on the table was pretty much more interested in our game than his own. I did not notice him feeling your pain or cheering you on as you put it. It’s actually kind of ironic, as later that day and Saturday I was approached by two separate individuals whom I did not know that expressed disbelief with what they witnessed during our match. The bottom line is Brett, that there are always two sides to every story. Hopefully we both learned something from this experience and will put that knowledge to use as soon as we can. Best to you.

Paul

So are there only 16 left? or is the tournament over now? Great reports btw

NotThisTime wrote:Brett, this is Paul from our game #4 match from the 40K Championships. Against my better judgment, I am going to respond to your assessment of our game. I initially felt a bit apprehensive but your battle report left me with little choice in that I now have an obligation to respond to stand up for myself and for what I believe happened during our match. Let me preface by stating that I have never entertained a discussion like this before nor have I ever posted anything online in this regard so please bear with me.

I want to start by stating that I respectfully disagree with some of the points you made throughout your report. I believe you have provided some distortions of the facts and I am going to try and provide a bit more detail to clear up any misinformation as I feel I have been unjustly maligned. Don't get me wrong here Brett, we all want to come out ahead and be victorious at the end of the day, but it's the manner in which you go about doing so. Let me explain as best I can.

To start, your battle report neglects to mention one of the most important points of our game. On the bottom of turn #2, prior to my Vendetta outflanking which happened to be my first move onto the board, I stated to you after my reserves rolls were made that I was going to move on and shoot with everything. Immediately after the outflanking Vendetta ruling went in my favor, which again was my first move onto the board, you mentioned to me directly to “pick up the speed of the game.” I said no problem Brett as we were indeed running a bit behind schedule. In an effort of trying to accommodate you, I did move on but with a bit too much haste. As a result, I did not realize initially that I moved a bit extra with both sets of Hydras and one CCS in a Chimera. My Hydras and CCS, at the very most, were right around 7.25 inches or less up the board, not the 10 inches as you have stated. Just look at the pictures you took after my reserves came in during my movement phase. Can you honestly say to yourself that those models look ten inches up the board? My intentions were made known to you prior to coming on the board from reserve that I was going to shoot with everything. As you can imagine, I was somewhat stunned when you went on to say that I could not fire both squadrons of Hydras because I moved over six inches. Regardless of what I told you of my intentions and how I was speeding up my play to try and accommodate you, you wanted to hear none of it. With the two of us being IG players, we both know how this works as there would be no reason for me to move my Hydras or CCS more than 6 inches. Yes, I did indeed move more than I should have and at the end of the day this is my fault and I should have known better. And by the rules you are indeed correct and firing would not have been possible. However, my intentions were made known to you prior, not to mention that I was trying to speed up the game per your request. At that point unfortunately it became very clear to me that you would do just about anything to get an upper hand. At the end of the day Brett, you make your own choices.

Another example was when my Hydras were targeting your Vendetta directly across from them in turn#3. You stated that you should get 5+ cover as you felt we couldn’t come to an agreement on whether or not you should get cover. This is what the rulebook recommends if it’s unclear whether a unit is obscured, but my Hydras had completely clear lines of sight so I decided to grab a judge. While this is in the rulebook, you were clearly trying to exploit the rules themselves by simply stating that because we could not agree that you should automatically receive 5+ cover. The Adepticon judge came over and ruled in my favor by stating I had clear lines of sight with both models.

There are some other points where I found or what appeared to me were inaccuracies. My Vendetta which outflanked was at no point hanging off the table edge as you claim, nor was my base or hull within one inch of your Vendetta’s base and hull. You seem to forget that both Adepticon judges ruled that my Vendetta's placement was perfectly legal. With regards to giving myself orders from within the Chimera, I stand corrected on this ruling Brett, as I have always believed that this was possible and I apologized afterwards for the mishap. Another minor point, my first set of Hydras were third in line to shoot, behind my PCS and CCS squad, in the bottom of #2. Not nearly towards the end of my shooting phase as you mentioned. Unfortunately, the Hydras never had a chance to shoot that turn. Motto of the story: take your time.

Lastly, you mention that some individual next to you on the table was pretty much more interested in our game than his own. I did not notice him feeling your pain or cheering you on as you put it. It’s actually kind of ironic, as later that day and Saturday I was approached by two separate individuals whom I did not know that expressed disbelief with what they witnessed during our match. The bottom line is Brett, that there are always two sides to every story. Hopefully we both learned something from this experience and will put that knowledge to use as soon as we can. Best to you.

Paul

I am glad you commented Paul and as I said concluding the report that I hold no grudge for the game. There is definitely two sides to a story and I merely provided mine and my opinion of the match. This game did happen over 2 weeks ago and I recall the facts as best I could. As you can see two of the turns even got blurred where I just stated stuff that happened. I wont enter any he said/she said arguments but I will touch up a few things I saw here. We will start off with what is done is done. I like debates and given my degree I like examining the facts to get to the truth.

From the top now:

NotThisTime wrote:Brett, this is Paul from our game #4 match from the 40K Championships. Against my better judgment, I am going to respond to your assessment of our game. I initially felt a bit apprehensive but your battle report left me with little choice in that I now have an obligation to respond to stand up for myself and for what I believe happened during our match. Let me preface by stating that I have never entertained a discussion like this before nor have I ever posted anything online in this regard so please bear with me.

No harm no foul here. If you feel there has been an injustice than speak and be heard and I will do my best to correct it.

NotThisTime wrote:
To start, your battle report neglects to mention one of the most important points of our game. On the bottom of turn #2, prior to my Vendetta outflanking which happened to be my first move onto the board, I stated to you after my reserves rolls were made that I was going to move on and shoot with everything.

I dont remember hearing this at all and it would sound kind of silly if someone actually stated that to me out of the blue. Not saying you didnt say it or taking away any relevancy from it just that I dont remember it and I like to think my verbal memory is pretty good. Give me faces to names though and thats a whole new story.

NotThisTime wrote:
Immediately after the outflanking Vendetta ruling went in my favor, which again was my first move onto the board, you mentioned to me directly to “pick up the speed of the game.” I said no problem Brett as we were indeed running a bit behind schedule. In an effort of trying to accommodate you, I did move on but with a bit too much haste. As a result, I did not realize initially that I moved a bit extra with both sets of Hydras and one CCS in a Chimera. My Hydras and CCS, at the very most, were right around 7.25 inches or less up the board, not the 10 inches as you have stated.

Wait! So I place my army and scout move and do basic movements and then turbo boost again and then have you move onto the table your first action and I tell you to speed it up? I did make a comment about time but I believe that was made at the bottom of 3 when we already had the judge over a few times.

NotThisTime wrote:
Just look at the pictures you took after my reserves came in during my movement phase. Can you honestly say to yourself that those models look ten inches up the board?

As for the distance I cant accurately judge it now but I can show a picture of the beginning of turn 3. Your Hydra's never moved after there initial move onto the board.

In this photo a Chimera chasis is roughly 5" in length. If you moved on your suggested 7.25 then your manticore would be hanging of the board. Instead it is comfortably placed on the board and gaining cover from your hydra. Simple math here dictates it. If you would like a better angle for this that same squadron has one tilted at an angle in front of it and even if that other hydra is on the board edge(which given the rules for pivoting would disallow it to pivot on the spot as it would be over the board) this would still put you well over 8" (If I recall correctly you were actually about 8.5 to 9 and 10" was an exageration, I will fix that in the report) Either way it is a mute point because the rulebook states 6" or below and anything over is breaking the rules, yes you can let slight mixs up slide like I did for the Vet Squad on the left flank which was about 7.25 as stated. (report adjusted with new numbers)

NotThisTime wrote:
Yes, I did indeed move more than I should have and at the end of the day this is my fault and I should have known better. And by the rules you are indeed correct and firing would not have been possible. However, my intentions were made known to you prior, not to mention that I was trying to speed up the game per your request. At that point unfortunately it became very clear to me that you would do just about anything to get an upper hand. At the end of the day Brett, you make your own choices.

So for enforcing a blatant rule violation which I let you slide on once already is apparently me cheating you? Are you saying I did not win the game fairly? Alright had we counted those shots you managed to wreck the vendetta with the Demo vets in it. What would have changed? That vendetta did nothing further for the rest of the game but move to the back corner. That is 1 more kp then. 11 to 5 on kill points which still results in a 56th victory.

NotThisTime wrote:
Another example was when my Hydras were targeting your Vendetta directly across from them in turn#3. You stated that you should get 5+ cover as you felt we couldn’t come to an agreement on whether or not you should get cover. This is what the rulebook recommends if it’s unclear whether a unit is obscured, but my Hydras had completely clear lines of sight so I decided to grab a judge. While this is in the rulebook, you were clearly trying to exploit the rules themselves by simply stating that because we could not agree that you should automatically receive 5+ cover. The Adepticon judge came over and ruled in my favor by stating I had clear lines of sight with both models.

Alright, I am certain before you even fetched the judge that I told you to go ahead and roll and I would not have a save. I said just take it an upward of 5 times but you grabbed the judge and he ruled in your favor, remember by the time he ruled in your favor we had already worked out the damage and it was wrecked?

NotThisTime wrote:
There are some other points where I found or what appeared to me were inaccuracies. My Vendetta which outflanked was at no point hanging off the table edge as you claim, nor was my base or hull within one inch of your Vendetta’s base and hull. You seem to forget that both Adepticon judges ruled that my Vendetta's placement was perfectly legal.

I said I disagreed with the judges on this one and stated why, its the interwebs I do get an opinion. I dont think my picture of the 1" to the hull came out so its a he said/she said. Either way judges allowed it.

NotThisTime wrote:
With regards to giving myself orders from within the Chimera, I stand corrected on this ruling Brett, as I have always believed that this was possible and I apologized afterwards for the mishap.

Your fine it was a long day and gak happens. You have it for next time.

NotThisTime wrote:
Another minor point, my first set of Hydras were third in line to shoot, behind my PCS and CCS squad, in the bottom of #2. Not nearly towards the end of my shooting phase as you mentioned. Unfortunately, the Hydras never had a chance to shoot that turn. Motto of the story: take your time.

Alright so lets count here. You have PCS move on and you give them order bring it down after they disembark. You try to issue order to CCS but cant but you fire with them and do no damage. Then you fire with vets in the chimera that moved in onto the flank as well and manage to stun my vendetta. Had you been able to that would of left you 2 hydra units to shoot and the manticore effectively your last firing models.

NotThisTime wrote:
Lastly, you mention that some individual next to you on the table was pretty much more interested in our game than his own. I did not notice him feeling your pain or cheering you on as you put it. It’s actually kind of ironic, as later that day and Saturday I was approached by two separate individuals whom I did not know that expressed disbelief with what they witnessed during our match. The bottom line is Brett, that there are always two sides to every story. Hopefully we both learned something from this experience and will put that knowledge to use as soon as we can. Best to you.

I actually don't doubt this it was a rough game and I depicted it as a rough game. I even stated that I got a little short during the game and I hope next time we meet on better terms and have a nice friendly game which I am sure will happen. I heard you won best imperial general on Sunday so you actually won more then me throughout the weekend so maybe it was a good thing you lost. I would of gladly had traded places with you given what happened to me in my next game and something as a fellow IG player you are probably all too aware of. Only got to shoot my opponent one turn in an entire game. Thank you for your comments and if ever you need anything let me know and I will try to fix some of the discrepancies in the report.

yours truly, Tomb

Two sides, same coin memories get distorted so no point jumping back and forth, it just looks like you guys were tired and that happens. Really great report and glad to see the opponent chime in. Do you think you could (if the OP doesnt mind) mention your tactical views on the game? I would be excited to see your tactical views of the match.

Uhh... suddenly I'm reminded why I hate reading tournament reports. Other than that second game, those tables are just empty. The blank spaces in the first table are inexcusable, and just playing on a RoB does not mean the table is covered in terrain (some barricades do not count) especially when the hills are put to the four corners. And the fourth table has a bunker in the centre... and that's it.

I'm sure someone will say "if you squish it together it was 25% terrain" to which I can only say "that means 75% of the board was flat and open".

H.B.M.C. wrote:Uhh... suddenly I'm reminded why I hate reading tournament reports. Other than that second game, those tables are just empty. The blank spaces in the first table are inexcusable, and just playing on a RoB does not mean the table is covered in terrain (some barricades do not count) especially when the hills are put to the four corners. And the fourth table has a bunker in the centre... and that's it.

I'm sure someone will say "if you squish it together it was 25% terrain" to which I can only say "that means 75% of the board was flat and open".

Tbh the table coverages is a bit of a mixed bag, but saying they are empty is a bit of a stretch. The first table is about one medium sized piece of terrain short (right in the middle of the IG board edge needs something), the second table is fine, the third is about one medium-small piece short (hills and barricades are terrain, not everything has to be area terrain) but looks bad because the terrain has been clustered slightly (there are two buildings on the left which means there is way too much coverage in the centre left of the board, I'm guessing this might have been moved here to fit a display board on the table at some point and never moved) and the fourth is again about one medium sized piece short (again from the middle of the IG board edge). All the table could do with a few smaller pieces scatters around, but otherwise the terrain is perfectly acceptable, there are LOS blockers and area terrain on every table.

Powerguy wrote:Tbh the table coverages is a bit of a mixed bag, but saying they are empty is a bit of a stretch. The first table is about one medium sized piece of terrain short (right in the middle of the IG board edge needs something), the second table is fine, the third is about one medium-small piece short (hills and barricades are terrain, not everything has to be area terrain) but looks bad because the terrain has been clustered slightly (there are two buildings on the left which means there is way too much coverage in the centre left of the board, I'm guessing this might have been moved here to fit a display board on the table at some point and never moved) and the fourth is again about one medium sized piece short (again from the middle of the IG board edge). All the table could do with a few smaller pieces scatters around, but otherwise the terrain is perfectly acceptable, there are LOS blockers and area terrain on every table.

It's not about just having LOS blockers and area terrain. It's coverage. Look at the huge tracts of empty blank table on that first table. It's horrific. Not the worst I've seen, but still quite bad. I always use this as my example for terrain, and it applies here.

Also:

"(hills and barricades are terrain, not everything has to be area terrain)"

I'm not saying that everything has to be area terrain, but my point about the RoB is that having all four hill sections slotted in the corners creates a kind of "big crater" effect. The hills have no impact on the game itself other than providing more LOS and making the obvious blank spots even worse. The fact that the table appears to have nothing besides the big fortress in the centre and a few barricades only makes this worse. This is what I mean when I say that the barricades are not terrain. They're incidental. Putting them on a RoB hill or a flat board is the same in my mind.

Great performance against the OP GK.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Powerguy wrote:Tbh the table coverages is a bit of a mixed bag, but saying they are empty is a bit of a stretch. The first table is about one medium sized piece of terrain short (right in the middle of the IG board edge needs something), the second table is fine, the third is about one medium-small piece short (hills and barricades are terrain, not everything has to be area terrain) but looks bad because the terrain has been clustered slightly (there are two buildings on the left which means there is way too much coverage in the centre left of the board, I'm guessing this might have been moved here to fit a display board on the table at some point and never moved) and the fourth is again about one medium sized piece short (again from the middle of the IG board edge). All the table could do with a few smaller pieces scatters around, but otherwise the terrain is perfectly acceptable, there are LOS blockers and area terrain on every table.

It's not about just having LOS blockers and area terrain. It's coverage. Look at the huge tracts of empty blank table on that first table. It's horrific. Not the worst I've seen, but still quite bad. I always use this as my example for terrain, and it applies here.

Also:

"(hills and barricades are terrain, not everything has to be area terrain)"

I'm not saying that everything has to be area terrain, but my point about the RoB is that having all four hill sections slotted in the corners creates a kind of "big crater" effect. The hills have no impact on the game itself other than providing more LOS and making the obvious blank spots even worse. The fact that the table appears to have nothing besides the big fortress in the centre and a few barricades only makes this worse. This is what I mean when I say that the barricades are not terrain. They're incidental. Putting them on a RoB hill or a flat board is the same in my mind.

I completely agree with this. the rulebook is actually pretty damn clear - about 25% of the table (so I'd say 20-30% should be the range) should be terrain and that should be an equal division between cover providing area terrain, cover providing/los interfering terrain, los blocking terrain with the latter being described as 'particularly important' otherwise game balance could be 'seriously affected'.

Often I see tables where 6 or 7 pieces of terrain are all there is. Again the rulebook says that if the terrain pieces are aboyt 12"x12", then -7 is the correct number, but too often there are just 6-7 pieces none of which are much bigger than 6"x6". I do understand that it's hard to provide proper terrain for lots of tables but it's easily just as big a deal as allegedly 'broken armies' fielded by opponents and yet is seldom made a big deal of.

Leth wrote:Two sides, same coin memories get distorted so no point jumping back and forth, it just looks like you guys were tired and that happens. Really great report and glad to see the opponent chime in. Do you think you could (if the OP doesnt mind) mention your tactical views on the game? I would be excited to see your tactical views of the match.

As I stated above I do mind in the least. It would only add to the thread.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Uhh... suddenly I'm reminded why I hate reading tournament reports. Other than that second game, those tables are just empty. The blank spaces in the first table are inexcusable, and just playing on a RoB does not mean the table is covered in terrain (some barricades do not count) especially when the hills are put to the four corners. And the fourth table has a bunker in the centre... and that's it.

I'm sure someone will say "if you squish it together it was 25% terrain" to which I can only say "that means 75% of the board was flat and open".

Some of the boards had amazing cover while others were lacking this happens at every tournament though, this one was better then most. I actually pointed out that some might of been moved on game 3 but we played it as it was and luckily I was able to get cover from the barricades otherwise I was left without any cover in my zone.

mattyrm wrote: Great performance against the OP GK.

Thanks, its always a pleasure to beat GK. It is like that trophy catch when you do it and if you lose its that fish that got away. I havent lost to grey knights since DoW Annihalation when I had to face a draigowing that had a wall to hide behind. My army is built to combat grey knights.

Oh I meant to add to my post that I really like how these battle reports have been done, thanks for posting them - epsecially as it's not easy to take photos when competing.

Blood and Slaughter wrote:Oh I meant to add to my post that I really like how these battle reports have been done, thanks for posting them - epsecially as it's not easy to take photos when competing.

Thanks, it is definitely a challenge to remember to take photo's especially in those nail biters.

Rather than argue over a game that happened 2 weeks ago I think (maybe) a better way to handle this might be to say...

"Thanks for reading the report. I definitely understand that you were probably as frustrated as me. I do not want to get into an internet squabble, but I appreciate your measured response on this. I hope we can play again next time and enjoy a great game without any drama or bickering!"

You can also add that adorable ork smiley face Dakka has.

calypso2ts wrote:Rather than argue over a game that happened 2 weeks ago I think (maybe) a better way to handle this might be to say...

"Thanks for reading the report. I definitely understand that you were probably as frustrated as me. I do not want to get into an internet squabble, but I appreciate your measured response on this. I hope we can play again next time and enjoy a great game without any drama or bickering!"

You can also add that adorable ork smiley face Dakka has.

I could of but as stated above. I am a CJ major and I like debate and establishing the facts. However, I do like your way as well but I figured a well worded response was due either way.

I suppose I should at least post the finals here.

Round 5

Opponent: Doug

His army: Battlewagon Orks

HQ:
Ghazghkull Thraka
Big Mek (cyborg body, Bosspole, Poker Claw, KFF)

Elite
11 Kommandoes w/ snikrot and 2 burna's
12 burna boys w/ mekboy(rokkit launcha)

Troops:
17 Boyz w/ Nob(bosspole; eavy armor; Power Klaw; Rockit Launcha)
17 shoota Boyz w/ Nob(bosspole; eavy armor; Power Klaw; Rockit Launcha)
12 shoota Boyz w. Nob(bosspole; eavy armor; Power Klaw; Big Shoota) in Truck(Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram; Wreckin Ball; Big Shoota)

Fast:
2 DeffKoptas w/ 2 twin link rocket launcha and 1 buzzsaw

Heavy:
Battlewagon w/ Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Deff Rolla; Grabbin Klaw; Red Paint Job; Stikbomb Chukka; Wreckin Ball; Big Shoota x 1
Battlewagon w/ Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Deff Rolla; Grabbin Klaw; Grot Rigger; Red Paint Job; Stikbomb Chukka; Wreckin Ball; Big Shoota x 1
Battlewagon w/ Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Deff Rolla; Grabbin Klaw; Grot Rigger; Red Paint Job; Stikbomb Chukka; Wreckin Ball; Big Shoota x 1; Kannon


Mission: By this Axe I Rule
Annihilation
Battlefield Control
Lead by Example
Deployment: Spearhead

We roll to see who goes first and I win the roll off.

Pre-game Analysis: The mission is a repeat from the first day. If I could pick one I hated the most from that day this would be it. I have to get my Commander to the middle of the field and keep him alive while trying to keep his away from it. Table quarters is pretty much a wash in just about every game because it can be contested by just one unit regardless of how many scoring units you have in that corner. So with 2 of the 3 missions looking very hard to achieve it comes down to the last mission which is killpoints. I have 18(if I dont split my platoon up) to his 12 so that should be interesting. I am relatively sure my opponent is gonna reserve most if not all of his army. So the plan is spread out and make him work for the kill points if he is gonna get them and hopefully blast him as he comes in piecemeal. Getting those extra turns of movement show allow me to get in position to take table quarters in the later rounds. I can use my infantry platoon to bubble wrap my manticore. It will be key in this victory as he has vehicles but not necessarily numbers. My biggest threat is snikrot and ghaz coming from my side of the board. That will be a real pain in the arse but I can have my flamer squad standing by.

He decides to reserve everything and states the choppa's are outflanking and Ghaz is going with the commandoes. No surprises here as it was expected.

What are your predictions?

Ghaz is an awful tough HQ to take down and the Mek is probably going to make it to the center pretty quickly. I think this one goes to the Orks, he just has too much potential pressure on the back front and sides given a mission that forces you to the center.

Looking forward to the report!

Dugg (his handle here on dakkadakka) brings a really interesting list. It's not your typical ultra-competitive, finely-tuned ork army. Rather, it seems to incorporate a lot of things that makes other generals go, "huh?" He also happened to get 6th overall (and Best Ork player) at the BAO, so I'm assuming he's a really good player.

Too bad there's drama here in this game. He seems to be a really cool and laid-back person.

Dont see you having alot of problems with orks or the list, should be a good game tho.

Philly Paul is a great guy. I don't think the drama adds to a batrep... Not impressed.

Super competitive events (even more so ones that are plastered all over the net) tend to spark some amount of drama in one way or another. I can't say I would fault anyone unless they were openly being a D-bag. Unfortunately the stress and pressure gets worse the further you make it.

I fail to see how sniping another player adds anything constructive to a batrep.

-666- wrote:I fail to see how sniping another player adds anything constructive to a batrep.

That is precisely why I have waited so long to put this battle report up. Trying to be tactful about the way i word it. I am in no way shape or form trying to down a fellow player maybe a play style but not a person. I will get this report up later tonight.

In my experience (not telling what to do naturally) it is best to be circumspect about disagreements. For example...

"We had a disagreement because he moved his manticores over 6", we agreed to move them back to 6". He shot..."

Basically, give a nod that it was contentious, but does not get into a debate about right or wrong.

Tomb King wrote:

-666- wrote:I fail to see how sniping another player adds anything constructive to a batrep.

That is precisely why I have waited so long to put this battle report up. Trying to be tactful about the way i word it. I am in no way shape or form trying to down a fellow player maybe a play style but not a person. I will get this report up later tonight.

Whatever.