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ShumaGorath wrote:

Zweischneid wrote: There's no tank that looks like swiss cheese functioning perfectly.

Actually lol

In one encounter within the urban area a Challenger 2 came under attack from irregular forces with machine guns and rocket propelled grenades. The driver's sight was damaged and while attempting to back away under the commander's directions, the other sights were damaged and the tank threw its tracks entering a ditch. It was hit directly by fourteen rocket propelled grenades from close range and a MILAN anti-tank missile.[11] The crew survived remaining safe within the tank until the tank was recovered for repairs, the worst damage being to the sighting system. It was back in operation six hours later after repairs. One Challenger 2 operating near Basra survived being hit by 70 RPGs in another incident


As to the random powers.. who cares what psy powers the armies have now, if they are going down a random route then we will evidently get a whole listof powers like the minor psy powers of 3rd (which were dum dum duuum... random) hopefully they wont be as broken as some of the old ones though eh?

ColdSadHungry wrote:How does the FOC stuff work in Fantasy that's so different from 40k? I don't know Fantasy at all.

Its percentages. 0-50% Lords, 25%+ Core, 0-50% Special and 0-25% Rare. This could translate as 0-50% HQ, 0-25% Elite, 25%+ Troop, 0-50% Fast Attack, 0-25% Heavy Support.

Aye, I'm not against the idea of lores to be honest, I remember them fondly from Dark Millenium.

*ponders* Where not the inquistion powers insane if I remember rightly.


edit - also percentages wouldn't phase me either, as long as it works out alright, still would be strange to see the back of FoC, its been with us for so long.

Kanluwen wrote:I would absolutely love for a "Lore Attributes" system.

A lore attribute system would work for each of the races, but that would just overly complicate things as when im playing fantasy i often forget lore attributes so i fear that in 40k they would also be forgotten

Nicorex wrote:First.. I dislike random powers. Personaly I feel its a pain buying a 100 point(or more) model in the hopes that it will get the 1 or 2 really usefull spells and not one of the other 4-8 that are a waste. Cheeses my cracker.... About the rest.. Im not sure if these rumors are really plausiable. GW has been moving away from complexity towards simplicity. Throwing in one more thing to keep track of(stunned/shaken hits) goes aginst the "make it simpler" trend they have been following. FOC charts getting dumped for %'s... I also dont see that because its easy to go I have 2 troops and a HQ. Making the kidz do extra math to make their armys, I cant see it.
If its all about selling models, then the rules have to be quick and easy. The more complex the less the easy distracted target audiance will stick around spending cash on plastic men, when they can get their fix from CoD 10 or Vice city or "Packman 3 The Bloody Revenge of Blinky!".. you get my drift..

My counter to the numerous concerns about random powers is this: In 8th ed they did a good job of revamping magic for all lores. You take that 100pt mage because he's a force multiplier. The 100pt Librarian is FAR AND AWAY a more powerful model than a mage in fantasy. Hell, the only psyker that comes close to the level of weakness of your average lvl2 mage in Fantasy is the Imperial Psyker from the squads, and those guys at least come in units for protection. You will take that Librarian because he's a Marine with a Forceweapon who ALSO has access to 2 kick ass psyker powers, randomly determined (one of which can be swapped out by his signature power) And you'll do it because you STILL have that advantage of even getting a psyker against nearly every Xeno army in the game and at least one imperial one.

BDJV wrote:

Nicorex wrote: FOC charts getting dumped for %'s... I also dont see that because its easy to go I have 2 troops and a HQ. Making the kidz do extra math to make their armys, I cant see it.

Making children use their brains is a good thing.

I totaly agree. On the other hand GW isnt about getting kids to use thier brains, its about getting them to get Mom and Dads to open their wallets. Even us older players (that I think are really the people keeping GW in business). They want us to spend spend spend, We wont do that if it takes longer to build an army than play the game. We also wont spend if games go back to taking 4+ hours to play. Most of us dont have that kind of time. I wont quit because of %'s or complex rules but there are people that will. Thats a fact. The more difficult you make it before someone can put models on the table and actually play the game, the less likely you will keep or gain new players. GW may have some bad business practices and do things we dont like but we keep playing and buying. GW wants us to keep buying and they want to sell to new people. When every website out there starts pissing and moaning about army building and complexity of it(weather true or not), you will get people quiting or not buying in the first place.

Have you tried "Dust Tacticts"? I have not yet. If you have how complex are their rules or list building? How about any more recent Table Top game? Or are all of them moving towards faster army building/ game rules.

UltraPrime wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:How does the FOC stuff work in Fantasy that's so different from 40k? I don't know Fantasy at all.

Its percentages. 0-25% Lords, 0-25% Heroes, 25%+ Core, 0-50% Special and 0-25% Rare. This could translate as 0-50% HQ, 0-25% Elite, 25%+ Troop, 0-50% Fast Attack, 0-25% Heavy Support.

Fixed for you. Also, no more than 3 of the same special choices, no more than 2 of the same Rares, to prevent spamming.

Nagashek wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:How does the FOC stuff work in Fantasy that's so different from 40k? I don't know Fantasy at all.

Its percentages. 0-25% Lords, 0-25% Heroes, 25%+ Core, 0-50% Special and 0-25% Rare. This could translate as 0-50% HQ, 0-25% Elite, 25%+ Troop, 0-50% Fast Attack, 0-25% Heavy Support.

Fixed for you. Also, no more than 3 of the same special choices, no more than 2 of the same Rares, to prevent spamming.

I think that has the potential to be better than the current FOC myself.

Nagashek wrote:

Nicorex wrote:First.. I dislike random powers. Personaly I feel its a pain buying a 100 point(or more) model in the hopes that it will get the 1 or 2 really usefull spells and not one of the other 4-8 that are a waste. Cheeses my cracker.... About the rest.. Im not sure if these rumors are really plausiable. GW has been moving away from complexity towards simplicity. Throwing in one more thing to keep track of(stunned/shaken hits) goes aginst the "make it simpler" trend they have been following. FOC charts getting dumped for %'s... I also dont see that because its easy to go I have 2 troops and a HQ. Making the kidz do extra math to make their armys, I cant see it.
If its all about selling models, then the rules have to be quick and easy. The more complex the less the easy distracted target audiance will stick around spending cash on plastic men, when they can get their fix from CoD 10 or Vice city or "Packman 3 The Bloody Revenge of Blinky!".. you get my drift..

My counter to the numerous concerns about random powers is this: In 8th ed they did a good job of revamping magic for all lores. You take that 100pt mage because he's a force multiplier. The 100pt Librarian is FAR AND AWAY a more powerful model than a mage in fantasy. Hell, the only psyker that comes close to the level of weakness of your average lvl2 mage in Fantasy is the Imperial Psyker from the squads, and those guys at least come in units for protection. You will take that Librarian because he's a Marine with a Forceweapon who ALSO has access to 2 kick ass psyker powers, randomly determined (one of which can be swapped out by his signature power) And you'll do it because you STILL have that advantage of even getting a psyker against nearly every Xeno army in the game and at least one imperial one.

No not really, I take a Libby for 2 power the others are just if I have 5-10pts left over. If I could make sure I get them, there better places to spend my pts.

These changes are not surprising. These are all things that they've done in the past.

Since when is BolS considered anything but a repost blog in terms of rumormongering?

I'll believe it when I see it, or when Harry or Hastings tell me to believe it.

Nagashek wrote: You will take that Librarian because he's a Marine with a Forceweapon who ALSO has access to 2 kick ass psyker powers, randomly determined (one of which can be swapped out by his signature power) And you'll do it because you STILL have that advantage of even getting a psyker against nearly every Xeno army in the game and at least one imperial one.

I play Chaos. So Im paying 110 points for a single spell and no hood. Yes got a a FW.. and an invuln save. I can never cast more than one spell making my FW or Spell useless half the time and my choices of spells suck. Admitidly this is due to age or codex and hopefully the new Dex will give me some cool new toys but I can only go by what I have right now.. and right now... I have carp.

I'd say the reason this stuff wasn't posted yet is because it's bogus.

In one of the earlier editions wargear & I think powers were all on cards & picked at random from a deck.
Only problem was that my mate realised that the star pattern on the back of each card was unique & he could pick basically what he wanted.
Hope they don't bring this back!!
I also hope psychic powers don't become as powerful as magic in WHFB - I want to blow things up with super powered artillery with just back-up from my chaos-infected heretics!

BoLS also mentioned Codices becoming hardcover, an old rumour actually.

I think 40k using a % system like fantasy would change the game a lot.

Seriously.. for a lot of armies having to field 1000 points of troops for a 2000 point list would be a real game changer. It would mean a lot of new list possibilites and standards, especially for people who usually take minimum points of troops and then take 3 very bloated heavy and elite choices.


Honestly though, I hope these rumors prove true. I left 40k because I felt (in my own opinion.. I don't plan to debate this here..) that fantasy was the superior system in terms of list building and turn by turn play. The thing about fantasy is that other than movement and shooting, both players are included each phase, whether dispelling or swinging back or charge reactionsor even how deployment swaps unit by unit. It's closer to what I consider the ideal system, which would be a unit activation system like that of malifaux with the inclusion of the Fantasy phases.

The only thing I'm not EXACTLY sold on is the idea of pysker lores. It might be enough to get me interested in Eldar again though.

And I like the thought of weakening vehicles. Transporthammer 40k: Cover Save Edition annoyed the heck outta me.

We had percentages in 2nd edition.

It would be interesting to see if dedicated transports would qualify for the minimum % or maximum percentage.

We also had Ally rules in 2nd. I don't see them coming back.
If they do go to a percent system I hope they move transport vehicles like Rhinos and Chimeras into the fast section and do away with the dedicated transport rule. At least then everyone would know how many units they are deploying.

I don't like math.

It would be nice if the game had some sort of equivalent of a "motorpool", where only a certain percentage of any given armies points could be used for vehicles. Those heavy bolters have a mountain of dust right now.

I'll believe it when I see it. Wouldn't be surprised at hard cover codices at all.

But random psychic powers and more fantasy-like stuff = no money for GW.

None of your money maybe, but certainly an army worth of mine.

I realize now this is wishlisting, but I'd love to see all transports go into fast attack %'s.

Thunderfrog wrote:I think 40k using a % system like fantasy would change the game a lot.

Seriously.. for a lot of armies having to field 1000 points of troops for a 2000 point list would be a real game changer. It would mean a lot of new list possibilites and standards, especially for people who usually take minimum points of troops and then take 3 very bloated heavy and elite choices.
...

I see this as a fulfillment of what GW started in 5th ed. GW tried to get people to take more troop choices by promoting their use by only allowing them to score. Instead many armies take the minimum number and hide them until the end of the game... this creates a situation where what should be the most common and used units are in fact the least.

I think it brings more strategy back into the game when players have to use a number of units that aren't the most ideal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thunderfrog wrote:None of your money maybe, but certainly an army worth of mine.

I realize now this is wishlisting, but I'd love to see all transports go into fast attack %'s.

I've always thought that "dedicated transports" should have had their own FOC category or as you say take up a fast attack... or in the least some other means of restricting how many are being used. If the idea of percentages proves true, I can see them counting towards the % of the unit purchasing them, though that does little to alleviate their excessive use.

Thunderfrog wrote:None of your money maybe, but certainly an army worth of mine.

I realize now this is wishlisting, but I'd love to see all transports go into fast attack %'s.

transports have to remain a major part of the game unless a lot of basics are changed, and that would mean real fast attack would be even less common in most armies. Too many armies just plain aren't capable of being effective foot sloggers anymore, or if they are its only with a couple of units, the game needs a total rewrite from the ground up to really fix it. Also, some of us love tanks just because they are. rather then nerf transports, how about wishing for good alternatives?

I am actually thinking GW is going to swing back from the dumbing down of the game. the core audience is a little older and they know dumbed down rules with few options don't make people happy, and they don't sell models. The more effective diversity in the list the more models gets sold as people expand beyond a single core.

random major psyker powers would be bad, but i could see a major powers list you buy from and a random minor powers list, with number and abilities based on level.

Dont really think scrapping the FoC for % based system would be a good idea, some armies would suffer hugely from it, imagine having to spend 25% on your points on troops as tau or eldar :s while armies like guard where your troops choices are great would be laughing all the way to the objectives, thats perhaps more of a codex problem overall though....

Bobug wrote:Dont really think scrapping the FoC for % based system would be a good idea, some armies would suffer hugely from it, imagine having to spend 25% on your points on troops as tau or eldar :s while armies like guard where your troops choices are great would be laughing all the way to the objectives, thats perhaps more of a codex problem overall though....

It'll be nice to see an IG army composition that isn't 70% heavy support choices.

If I can play 6th edition without having to spend more time looking in my rulebook than actually playing, I'm behind whatever decisions GW makes (within reason, of course, because Lord help them if they screw around with my SM list).

a % based system wouldnt affect me at all and im kinda looking forward to it if it is true.

Based upon my current list my statics break down to (Imperial guard) :

HQ 8%
Elite 16%
Troops: 50%
FA: 8%
Heavy: 16%


Compared to Tau:

HQ: 7 %
Elite: 31%
Troops: 44%
FA: 0 %
Heavy: 18%

Again not breaking the % system of fantasy AND having some form of balance in two seperate but equal point (2000) list. If this is the way 6th is gonna be i say bring on the changes

I love how every tiny bit of rumor is met with a planet sized choir of whining, crying, doomsaying, conspiracy theorizing and sphincter tightening. It's hilarious that everyone thinks every tiny change is going to ruin their game, because it messes with their carefully cheesed up, unbeatable list.

If you guys think it's so terrible, just keep playing 5th. Make your own tournaments. Buy the models that fit the game you want to play. At the very LEAST, stop your frakking whining until the new edition comes out so you know what to whine about! Half this thread is just people saying how unlikely this rumor is. What's the f'ing point?