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This is the last battle report i read for your Necrons Jy2. I just dont like your list. If you get thrashed and then blame it on your overconfidence than its just not a good enough list to begin with. I really hope you start playing your grey knights again.

I don't get it, you are saying if you make mistakes then the list must be bad?

@Janthkin and Hyv3mynd

Well then, I stand corrected.

Ah, that Nid game was both incredibly frustrating and refreshing to watch. Barge Lords are such an investment and a decision when to commit them to something, and seeing them flounder like that against the trygons is a visceral feeling. I'm also surprised about how little weight the tesla shooting seemed to be carrying, but I guess with such fatty units getting cover / fnp / hiding in assault early, its hard to be leaning on 24 inch guns.

I really like your nightscythes in this JY2. The Nid game really reminded me how much I hate going for cheap MSU scoring in these hyper aggressive lists, because necron troops, especially the MSU warriors, have such trouble against weirdo-deployment units. The scythes really seem to mitigate that somewhat. Though I have trouble reconciling them against a 2nd pulse.

I do love seeing a funny tyranid force go to town though, I don't even hear about it very often anymore, much less see it, so this was a nice treat. Even if I could feel myself on the other side of the table, grinding my teeth.

Good show!

Reecius wrote:Great game Jim, you were as gracious in defeat as you are in victory.

I felt like I was due one, you have sneaked a tie or a win on me several times despite having only a few models left!

I look forward to the rematch =)

Great game also despite that ass-whooping I received. Thanks for the game. Now aren't you glad that I came?

Yeah, are my ties are games where I basically stole them from you. However, all the victories (except for the nid-v-nid tournament battle) haven't really been too close, but those usually involved a mistake or 2 and the dice.

I'm definitely looking forwards to facing your footdar or nids when I come back for my wraiths. Perhaps I will be your first necron loss? We shall see....

yakface wrote:
Heh, as I was reading this I thought that Reece had used Mindshackle Scarabs on you yourself and you were somehow compelled to keep moving straight into the jaws of the tyranid force!

Ultimately, the Stealers were the key to everything and you had the perfect kind of shooting to decimate the Stealers for 2-3 turns before finishing them off with a massed Wraith charge.

Reece seemed to be exclusively firing his Hive Guard at your Wraiths because frankly those were by far his best targets for such shooting and you were totally presenting them to him on a platter. The Wraiths should have been kept out of range of the Hive Guard and your AV13 Skimmers should have been the Shield wall for your army. Yeah, the Hive Guard can down your AV13 stuff, but it isn't easy, especially since you have night-fight to hit him with. And if the Trygons/stealers do assault the skimmers they may down a few, but now you are able to counter-assault exactly where you want with your Wraiths and your Overlords instead of Reece dictating the combat match-ups.

Great report though, a fun read as always. It definitely felt as though you had gotten so comfortable with being the ultra-aggressive army that you kind of forgot there are some armies out there who are still more aggressive than yours!

Heh, yeah. Been playing assault-crons for so long that I just went full-throttle forwards. Don't worry, I'll adjust to my more shooty build in short order. You can bet that next time I face such an assault-based force, I'm going to take full advantage of my shooting before engaging.

My plan was this. Overlords will hunt down those trygons. Wraiths will move up for support. Especially after wounding them with tesla splash damage, my lords actually had a good chance to finish off both trygons on the assault.....that is, until Reece passed his LD8 mindshackle test and my lords whiff all 8 attacks! What I wanted to do was to take the fight to him (in his deployment half) because in an objective+table quarter game, positioning is almost everything. I had confidence that my lords and wraiths would survive his onslaught because 1) whip coils help, 2) not all his stealers would be able to make it into assault, 3) I was expecting to finish off both trygons and 4) I usually make my saves against Reece. Just not today....

He was right to fire at my wraiths. Command barges won't really do too much damage to his TMC's. They'll average maybe 1-1.5W against his 6W monsters. Besides, trygons, should they survive, will just kill my barges. However, if my wraiths had gotten the charge off on his stealers, I could've done some damage. But I wanted my command barges alive to be able to contest his objectives later. That's why I was so aggressive with my Overlords. As soon as they disembark, then the command barges will be ignored. I actually don't mind him shooting at my wraiths. He would only kill 2 on average. On Turn 2, he did way above average killing 4 because I rolled horribly on my wraith saves. Oh well, que sera sera.

Yeah, I'm definitely used to playing against other assault armies - daemons, Janthkin's nids, deathwing, grey knights - that on paper should beat my wraiths to a pulp. In this game, I definitely made a mistake against his nids but that's fine. Live and learn.

Defeatmyarmy wrote:@Jy2

I'm going toI try to make it to the golden throne, but 2 days off of full time work is hard for me to get.

Flayed ones can actually hit a flank turn 2 not 3 as troops are not required to start in dedicated transports. Deploy the transport on the table edge have the troop in reserve then turn 1 have the flayed ones embark in the scythe and boost to where they need to go. Unless spotlighted night fight shoul prevent most things Hitting the scythe Turn 2 deploy them and try to take out a few things with the twin linked tesla destructor. Keep in mind you can also do the same thing with your wraiths but they cannot ds if the scythe dies.

It would be an interesting fight between 2 wraithwing builds if we were to play against each other. I think what will determine the victor would be the support units.

Still not likely to pull off an assault on turn 2 for the FO. If the scythe was hovering around the night-fight range's edge, that means you're probably at least 20" away. Your charge range is only 12" (I don't think FO are fleet, but I don't have my codex with me right now) and if your scythe moves again, then you can't assault after disembarking. And then there's the risk of the night scythe getting shot down, though with that many wraiths, they may get ignored. Probably the only way you'll get a Turn 2 assault is if your opponent moves towards your FO and doesn't shoot down their ride, or if you infiltrate them in the first place.

iGuy91 wrote:Ouch...that was brutal. But I LOVED the D'eldar paint scheme
Ouch x2 that was ALSO brutal. I also loved the Tyranid paint scheme...it was just...so....purple... lol

Yeah, the painters at FrontlineGaming are pretty good.

That's why I'm commissioning them to do my wraiths.

Janthkin wrote:

Reecius wrote:Hive Guard bypass Night Fight, no? Since they don't need to see their target, they shouldn't be affected by Night Fight I would think.

You are incorrect. Line of Sight != Night Fight rules.

Ironically, in all my games as nids - and I usually run 8-9 hive guards - I've never once came up to the situation of hive guards and Night-fight. Of course, this was before the new necrons came out, but I never really checked the rules for them. That's because in DoW deployment, hive guards aren't deployed and when they come in, they are usually out of range anyways.

But yeah, I agree with the above. Even though we misplayed it in this game, I don't think it would've made too much of a difference to the outcome.

---- EDIT ----

Wait, I take it back. I played Janthkin's scythe-spam list once with my shooty nids. Yeah, I guess I did take NF tests in that game.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Julnlecs wrote:This is the last battle report i read for your Necrons Jy2. I just dont like your list. If you get thrashed and then blame it on your overconfidence than its just not a good enough list to begin with. I really hope you start playing your grey knights again.

No worries. Feel free to ignore my cron reports.

I don't blame my loss on anything. Rather, I am just admitting that I made a mistake. Now don't tell me you've never made any mistakes in your games?

My list has the tools to deal with any type of army. If I played Reece's list again, I still have confidence that I can beat it. In this case, it wasn't the list that lost. It was my gameplay., but everyone's entitled to like a list or not.

I probably won't be playing my knights too much unless someone (or I) want to test out another army against the grey knights. Though if I was to go to a tournament, I honestly would consider bringing them. However, at the next tournament where I am planning on going to - the Golden Throne GT - it's going to be necrons.

Lucre wrote:Ah, that Nid game was both incredibly frustrating and refreshing to watch. Barge Lords are such an investment and a decision when to commit them to something, and seeing them flounder like that against the trygons is a visceral feeling. I'm also surprised about how little weight the tesla shooting seemed to be carrying, but I guess with such fatty units getting cover / fnp / hiding in assault early, its hard to be leaning on 24 inch guns.

I really like your nightscythes in this JY2. The Nid game really reminded me how much I hate going for cheap MSU scoring in these hyper aggressive lists, because necron troops, especially the MSU warriors, have such trouble against weirdo-deployment units. The scythes really seem to mitigate that somewhat. Though I have trouble reconciling them against a 2nd pulse.

I do love seeing a funny tyranid force go to town though, I don't even hear about it very often anymore, much less see it, so this was a nice treat. Even if I could feel myself on the other side of the table, grinding my teeth.

Good show!

My lords are a monstrous creature's worst nightmare even though they failed pretty hard this game (well, one of them anyways....the other one did get back up to kill his target ). I'm finding that the tesla-destructors seem to work better against light vehicles or units with poorer saves. FNP stealers in cover are not one of those. Actually, necrons normally have problems dealing with anything with FNP (besides T3 units).

I'm liking those night scythes as well. But I'll probably run 2-3 at most until we get up to the 2500 level. They definitely give you some added flexibility. Where MSU troops really have problems with IMO are against fast assaulty armies like genestealer nids, daemons, battlewagon orks and any army that can control the board and has the mobility to strike far and fast.

Hmmm...maybe after the tournament, I'll start playing my shooty nids again. I think that they are still a viable army though they do have to work harder against the newer armies (and some of the older ones as well!).

Looks like it will be you and me using wraithwing at the GT day 1. Hopefully I can get both days off work. Go Team Wraithwing!

sorry realy delayed, nice bat rep! pretty epic carnage Quick question though, does the yrmagarl leader count as a kill point if you take him with your garls?

The ymgarls don't have a leader. Are you thinking of the regular steelers?

Reecius wrote:The ymgarls don't have a leader. Are you thinking of the regular steelers?

ya broodlord is what I was thinking of, does he count as a kill point?

darkcloud92 wrote:

Reecius wrote:The ymgarls don't have a leader. Are you thinking of the regular steelers?

ya broodlord is what I was thinking of, does he count as a kill point?

Broodlords are squad upgrade characters, much like a Veteran Sergeant. They do not count as kill points (and are never independent characters).

Defeatmyarmy wrote:Looks like it will be you and me using wraithwing at the GT day 1. Hopefully I can get both days off work. Go Team Wraithwing!

Who knows....maybe we won't be the only ones with wraithwing builds. We will definitely show them the power of the crons.

darkcloud92 wrote:

Reecius wrote:The ymgarls don't have a leader. Are you thinking of the regular steelers?

ya broodlord is what I was thinking of, does he count as a kill point?

No he doesn't. The general rule of thumb is that if the unit is not an Independent Character, then it doesn't count as another KP.

The Broodlord is a bad ass though, and can really beef up a unit of Steelers, particularly a small unit. The bigger units often don't need him as they smash damn near anything they hit.

Reecius wrote:The Broodlord is a bad ass though, and can really beef up a unit of Steelers, particularly a small unit. The bigger units often don't need him as they smash damn near anything they hit.

One thing I have a hard time deciding is this:

Broodlord?

or

toxin sacs on stealers

or

just more stealers.


Hmmm....probably deserves its own Tactica thread.....

I used to run 2 max squads of stealers naked.

Then necrons came out and you won't beat 6 wraiths with 20 naked stealers.

I'm 100% sold on toxin sacs on stealers now.

jy2 wrote:

Reecius wrote:The Broodlord is a bad ass though, and can really beef up a unit of Steelers, particularly a small unit. The bigger units often don't need him as they smash damn near anything they hit.

One thing I have a hard time deciding is this:

Broodlord?

or

toxin sacs on stealers

or

just more stealers.


Hmmm....probably deserves its own Tactica thread.....

When running the mathhammer on the offense, toxin stealers without a broodlord will almost always come out on top point for point. You can get a little more survivability with more bodies by running them naked, but the small gain does not out weigh the killing power imo. When they die, you tend to lose the whole unit and a couple extra bodies is not going to save them

I usually run mine in a couple groups of 12, but will occasionally throw one big unit of 20 out there for lulz. If you can give them PE, then they simply eat through just about anything you can throw at them...as long as it's not in cover

What about 7 or 8 toxin stealers with a broodlord...? BLs are good at stopping ic's and beastmode chars from smashing stuff. Plus the broodlord can soak up bolter shots and things.

You can certainly use a broodlord. You lose a little offense punch, but gain some utility. Survivability is almost a wash, but the ability to take 2 wounds without losing any attacks is certainly a bonus. I usually don't use them for my character killers, but the gaze power can certainly come in handy, just not as often as you'd think (get in base to base with a decent target for it, pass a psychic test, beat them in a d6+leadership roll-off). Like I mentioned before though, when genestealers start to take loses, the whole unit tends to evaporate regardless of how you build it, so I typically don't worry about survivability and build it to come in, eat a unit, then force the opponent to deal with it rather than my other forces. That's just my experience anyway.

I much prefer toxin sacs myself over the BL, but there's one advantage to having more, naked stealers....they're better against purely mech'd armies.

That's true to an extent, but are you really using genestealers primarily to take down armor? In a stealershock list I can kind of see that, but otherwise I generally try to go for targets that will lock me up for a turn to keep them safe from reprisal shooting. If I go after armor, it's generally because I don't have any better targets, or it's something I need to make die at all costs.

Maelstrom808 wrote:That's true to an extent, but are you really using genestealers primarily to take down armor? In a stealershock list I can kind of see that, but otherwise I generally try to go for targets that will lock me up for a turn to keep them safe from reprisal shooting. If I go after armor, it's generally because I don't have any better targets, or it's something I need to make die at all costs.

In an army where stealers are the focal point of the offense, you have to. You've got no choice. Some good players that I know (like Reecius in this report and Janthkin) normally run 2 units of hive guards and 1 ymgarls. How many vehicles can you expect to reliably take down with just shooting? The reality is that you cannot take on a heavily mech'd army (as in the current competitive meta) without relying on assault even if it isn't the most optimal of choices. It's just the inherent nature of the tyranid army.

However, assaulting vehicles can also keep your stealers alive if done right. Say, your opponent forms a wall of vehicles against your stealers. Hive guard shoots down 1 tank. Then your stealers multi-assault the disembarked infantry and the other tanks. Only put 1-2 stealers on the infantry (unless they're terminators) with the rest on the vehicles (actually, how many you should allocate onto the vehicles will depend on how fast they go). This will ensure that you don't wipe out the enemy on your Assault phase only to get shot up on his turn. It also allows you to possibly take out 1-2 more tanks. Otherwise, if your stealers go full force against 1 unit (besides uber-deathstars), the chances of them destroying that unit is too great.

I multi-assault when I can to keep them tied up, but it's usually obvious that it's coming and is easy to spoil (it usually turns into more of a game of forcing him to counter the multi-charge so I can open him up to something else). I absolutely agree that relying on hive guard alone to do your vehicle popping is not enough, especially if they and/or stealers are your main offensive pieces, but I also typically run 6 MCs that can do a fair share on their own, but only 1-2 squads of stealers. Besides that, running mid-sized squads of equal points value, you really don't gain much more effectiveness against armor, maybe 1 more pen, while you lose quite a bit of effectiveness against infantry and MCs.