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Thanks! But unfortunately, the space fairies won't be making an appearance this time.

They heard that necrons were coming and decided to take a day off today.

Yeahhhh I saw Reece said he forgot his list :/ And noooooo they didn't choose not to come, they foresaw what a spanking they'd put on the 'crons and decided to spare them In all truth I look forward to actually seeing this come together in the future. I voted for your Necrons since the codex release and watched you refine the Scarab Farm and Wraithwing lists. But I really like how Reece uses the Eldar so it would be a toss up for me!

Ben

Game #2 - 2K vs Reece's Tyranids


2K Tyranids

Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Catalyst, Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs

3x Hive Guards
3x Hive Guards
8x Ymgarls

19x Genestealers - Toxin Sacs
19x Genestealers - Toxin Sacs

Trygon Prime - Adrenal Glands
Trygon - Adrenal Glands
Trygon - Adrenal Glands

2000


First of all, a little introduction to my opponent for this game. Reece is the co-founder of Frontlinegaming as well as the Bay Area Open GT here in the West Coast. He is also a seasoned tournament veteran. His accolades are many, including 1st at the Grand Waaagh! and the Ard Boyz Semi-finals. Most recently, he made it the the top 8 of Adepticon (out of 200+ people) as well as 3rd at Slaughter in Space with his footdar. Last year, he placed 3rd at the Contest of Champions and 4th at Adepticon (out of 240 players!). Reece has done consistently well at tournaments. Next up for him is a tournament in San Diego this weekend (should be finished today) and Wargames Con later this month.

Against him, I've been on a roll lately, winning the last few games against his Space Wolves (2K Competitive - Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs Reecius' Bjorn Space Wolves) and his Imperial Guards (2K Competitive - Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs Reecius' Imperial Guards) with my necrons. I also beat him with my grey knights (2000pts. Competitive Grey Knights vs Reecius' Bjorn Space Wolves) when the knights were still relatively new and with my tyranids against his tyranids in a 1500 tournament (1500 RTT at Game Kastle - Tyranids). Then I also got a couple of games with my grey knights against his footdar (Jy2's Interceptor Grey Knights Vs. Reecius' Footdar) and his Immotekh scarab-farm necrons (Video Battle Report: Jy2's Draigowing Grey Knights vs Reecius' Scarab Farm Necrons) which ended in draws. So you can say we have kind of a friendly rivalry going on and that my opponent is looking for a little payback.

Originally, he was going to bring his footdar but then forgot to bring them out with him. Too bad, because I was looking forwards to beating them. However, he happened to have his tyranids at the store so decided to give them a go instead. I think this will actually be a good matchup. The nids can outassault my crons and have the resiliency to survive my shooting. This game can go either ways.

We will be playing one of the Wargames Con scenario. Reece is long overdue to get one against me. Will his nids be the army to do so? We shall see.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: 3 Mission Objectives

Primary - Seize Ground - 5 objectives

Secondary - Marked for Death. Each player chooses one of their opponent's troops as a unit "marked for death". Kill that unit and you achieve this objective.

Tertiary - Control the table quarter that is your right deployment quarter. You need to have 150VP+ more than your opponent to control that quarter.

Deployment: Pitched Battle

Initiative: Tyranids

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Deployment:




--------------------------------------------------------------


Tyranids 1




Necrons 1




Tyranids 2




Necrons 2




Tyranids 3




Necrons 3




Tyranids 4




Necrons 4




Tyranids 5




VIDEO BATTLE REPORT:




POST-GAME THOUGHTS:

jy2 wrote:

Actually, that's Runes of Warding.

Freudian slip, they RUIN games for my psychers

Hope you boys had fun, looking forward to reading these. Great change of pace playing against Tyranids and DE.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What happened?

Game #1 vs Frankie completed on p.1.


Game #2 vs Reece coming up tomorrow on p.2.

Yeah, it seemed weird that he moved everything across the table like that when most of his guns outrange yours. I guess he wasn't confident in his night fighting re-rolls?

Reece im gona find you at Wargamescon and say hello!

Dok wrote:Yeah, it seemed weird that he moved everything across the table like that when most of his guns outrange yours. I guess he wasn't confident in his night fighting re-rolls?

Actually, there are several reasons for why he deployed the way he did.

1) Staying back to shoot isn't much better when I can make it night-fight for him.

2) The secondary mission parameter is to get within 12" of the center. So basically, he's achieved this and only has to defend "his turf". IMO it's slightly easily to defend than to take.

3) Getting close to the center means that he can hide units behind BLOS terrain (i.e. Vect's unit) for protection. Staying back means no one will be safe.

4) He will be able to assault any unit he chooses next turn (with Vect's unit).

Honestly, I would have probably deployed as he did. The only difference would be that I would rather have gone 2nd so that I can react to my opponent's deployment.

I think he did what he could given the match up. I think that Necron shooting will always rape paper airplanes and given annihilation was primary and you can turn the lights off, it really didn't bode well. Open topped makes all his vehicles close ranged hydras that splash damage around their target... LOL!

I also don't understand why he altered the list to replace wyches for haries;
a) they're in a ride, so veil is wasted
b) wyches survive better in CC especially since they have power from pain and harlies don't. So in subsequent CC they have dodge and FnP.
c) Vect is all the kill in CC you (should) need (barring this horrid example)
d) Wyches can purchase a transport an are much cheaper.

I think as jy2 stated the factor aside from list match ups and dice was initiative. Going second would have given him more foresight to deploy, but really I don't think there was much given his list that he could do. Oh and I almost forgot the scourges, I really don't get that. Even if they had landed he was trading a KP for a KP at best. So if everything goes right you are still behind. They go wrong and your down more, which we saw.

Either way good report, and props to Frankie for playing through despite the tabling.

I feel like that was not the best de list. Yes generalship can go so far and vect is a beast, but spending 430pts alone on two dark eldar models... Meh.

Well played tho, you got into him fast and took the hits and then just out ground him. I have to agree on the tactical points that you made at the end there. Him moving up so much was a gamble that did not pay off and overcommiting also did not help.

Cheers! Looking forward to the next reps. By the way are you getting any of the actuwl cron models for your army? Now that they have been released that is.

Being slow with that second rep jy

Very well played jy2. That said I think the primary mission objective favored you. In my opinion this configuration your army is more balanced with the addition of more shooty units. Anni Barges are in many ways the equivalent of a SM Predator and cost less points. Like I said very well played.

Zid wrote:Being slow with that second rep jy

I apologize, but I've been too busy today to work on the battle against Reecius. I'm going to start on it tonight and finish it tomorrow.

Red Corsair wrote:I think he did what he could given the match up. I think that Necron shooting will always rape paper airplanes and given annihilation was primary and you can turn the lights off, it really didn't bode well. Open topped makes all his vehicles close ranged hydras that splash damage around their target... LOL!

I also don't understand why he altered the list to replace wyches for haries;
a) they're in a ride, so veil is wasted
b) wyches survive better in CC especially since they have power from pain and harlies don't. So in subsequent CC they have dodge and FnP.
c) Vect is all the kill in CC you (should) need (barring this horrid example)
d) Wyches can purchase a transport an are much cheaper.

I think as jy2 stated the factor aside from list match ups and dice was initiative. Going second would have given him more foresight to deploy, but really I don't think there was much given his list that he could do. Oh and I almost forgot the scourges, I really don't get that. Even if they had landed he was trading a KP for a KP at best. So if everything goes right you are still behind. They go wrong and your down more, which we saw.

Either way good report, and props to Frankie for playing through despite the tabling.

I believe he was just experimenting with harlies. Reece seems to always do well with them in his footdar list, so maybe Frankie wanted to just give them a try. Whether he keeps them in his final list for Wargames Con remains to be seen.

The scourges are a suicide unit. Their purpose was twofold - 1) to kill a tank on the turn they come in and 2) to draw fire away from his skimmers before they eventually die. If they had not mishapped, I would've probably had to allocate 2 annihilation barges or 1 unit of wraiths to take them out. Sure they'll die and give up 1KP, but they'll also allow his skimmers to live just a little longer if they had done their job properly.

Yeah, I got to give Frankie props for playing to the very end. Most people would have just conceded long before then.

Iago wrote:I feel like that was not the best de list. Yes generalship can go so far and vect is a beast, but spending 430pts alone on two dark eldar models... Meh.

Well played tho, you got into him fast and took the hits and then just out ground him. I have to agree on the tactical points that you made at the end there. Him moving up so much was a gamble that did not pay off and overcommiting also did not help.

Cheers! Looking forward to the next reps. By the way are you getting any of the actuwl cron models for your army? Now that they have been released that is.

It's definitely not your typical, fully optimized DE list. That's why I gotta give him props for winning Slaughter with it. It actually doesn't have much AT compared to some of the other shooty DE lists (i.e. 3x blasterborn units, blasters in each unit of warriors). What it does have instead are 2 scary hammer units that will beat the tar out of many armies. I really respect any general that can win tournaments with these unconventional and "exotic" lists.

He took a big gamble with his deployment and 1st turn move. I think he was hoping that night-fight and flat-out cover would help to minimize the damage. Also, I suspect that he under-estimated my firepower a little probably because he hasn't played against this type of list before.

As for the new wraiths, the reason why I went to Frontline Gaming was actually to get my wraiths from them. I just ordered and commissioned them to build and paint 12 wraiths for me. Can't wait til they're done!

-666- wrote:Very well played jy2. That said I think the primary mission objective favored you. In my opinion this configuration your army is more balanced with the addition of more shooty units. Anni Barges are in many ways the equivalent of a SM Predator and cost less points. Like I said very well played.

Yeah, KP's are always a b*tch for mech deldar. If they don't have the firepower to table you, then they're going to be in for a rough one themselves.

Reecius vs jy2 video on frontline gaming blog.

I would like a crack at Reece's nids with my wraithwing, I also beat frankies dark elder in 1750. II think if you had more close combat and less shooting you would have done much better against Reece. Drop some stuff for 30 flayed ones in those night scythes and you could have picked your fights a lot more.

Defeatmyarmy wrote:Reecius vs jy2 video on frontline gaming blog.

I would like a crack at Reece's nids with my wraithwing, I also beat frankies dark elder in 1750. II think if you had more close combat and less shooting you would have done much better against Reece. Drop some stuff for 30 flayed ones in those night scythes and you could have picked your fights a lot more.

Don't think that would have made much a difference; the weakness of wraiths is large amounts of wounds. A unit of 19 stealers will put out a LOT of wounds before the wraiths even get to swing. The only thing I could see FOs even do to help is try and wall off some wraiths to prevent charges; and using them Jim would have to cut a lot of his mobility in order tofit them.

If anything Jy got far too aggressive and it allowed reece to capitalize on his positioning.

Nice those new wraith models will look ace!

Zid wrote:

Defeatmyarmy wrote:Reecius vs jy2 video on frontline gaming blog.

I would like a crack at Reece's nids with my wraithwing, I also beat frankies dark elder in 1750. II think if you had more close combat and less shooting you would have done much better against Reece. Drop some stuff for 30 flayed ones in those night scythes and you could have picked your fights a lot more.

Don't think that would have made much a difference; the weakness of wraiths is large amounts of wounds. A unit of 19 stealers will put out a LOT of wounds before the wraiths even get to swing. The only thing I could see FOs even do to help is try and wall off some wraiths to prevent charges; and using them Jim would have to cut a lot of his mobility in order tofit them.

If anything Jy got far too aggressive and it allowed reece to capitalize on his positioning.

I gotta agree on Jy2 being aggressive, but there are several reasons I say flayed ones....again.

1. 15 flayed ones are great at screening to deny power units a charge to your MVP units.

2. If wraiths are already in assault, and at least 3 survive there is a way to deny genestealers so many attacks on assaulting flayed ones if hit from the right angle ( I did this to a large unit of GS at BDG and destroyed the remaining 13, even with poor rolling in 1 turn)

3. Flayed ones in night scythes allow for flanking. Night Scythes are harder to kill than most people think, and get units to where they need to go, so long as the vehicle isnt taken out. It also gives flayed ones +2" on a charge.

Tyranids are a brutal assault army, period, but most lack enough firepower. If Jy2 held back and fired some pot shots, baited him with the wraiths and not assaulted him turn 2, but waited until turn 3 or even 4 I think that the game might have gone in JY2's favor.

Wow, you drive all the way over there to play a game against a DE player to get experience in and all you get is an experimental list with experimental tactics (a very Dark Eldarly thing to do Frankie, I like it). I think the only way you are going to get to go against a DE venom spam list (or something serious) is by playing one when you are in a tournament. I know jy2 doesn't get to play in tournaments but when you play a game against tournament players that are not in a tournament, you tend to get their less-than-tournament-quality lists.

As for Frankie, I do that all the time too. You get an idea in your head about something you just got to try out at least once because you are seriously considering on using it in the next tournament - the idea is knawing at you and you got to get give it a try. Funny thing is, you try it out in a game like this and the opponent takes pictures and posts it for all to see. I did this once, trying out Vect in a list and just got pulverized by the opponent, then the DE community decries you unfit for DE generalship. Yah, it turns into the DE getting clubbed like baby seals but if that is what picture taking personalities wants to post then lets call the game for what it is.

I like the experimenting, believe it or not I enjoyed the game just taking notes on what worked and what didn't on a unit by unit basis - would love to see more DE experiments!!!

Defeatmyarmy wrote:

Zid wrote:

Defeatmyarmy wrote:Reecius vs jy2 video on frontline gaming blog.

I would like a crack at Reece's nids with my wraithwing, I also beat frankies dark elder in 1750. II think if you had more close combat and less shooting you would have done much better against Reece. Drop some stuff for 30 flayed ones in those night scythes and you could have picked your fights a lot more.

Don't think that would have made much a difference; the weakness of wraiths is large amounts of wounds. A unit of 19 stealers will put out a LOT of wounds before the wraiths even get to swing. The only thing I could see FOs even do to help is try and wall off some wraiths to prevent charges; and using them Jim would have to cut a lot of his mobility in order tofit them.
NJ
If anything Jy got far too aggressive and it allowed reece to capitalize on his positioning.

I gotta agree on Jy2 being aggressive, but there are several reasons I say flayed ones....again.

1. 15 flayed ones are great at screening to deny power units a charge to your MVP units.

2. If wraiths are already in assault, and at least 3 survive there is a way to deny genestealers so many attacks on assaulting flayed ones if hit from the right angle ( I did this to a large unit of GS at BDG and destroyed the remaining 13, even with poor rolling in 1 turn)

3. Flayed ones in night scythes allow for flanking. Night Scythes are harder to kill than most people think, and get units to where they need to go, so long as the vehicle isnt taken out. It also gives flayed ones +2" on a charge.

Tyranids are a brutal assault army, period, but most lack enough firepower. If Jy2 held back and fired some pot shots, baited him with the wraiths and not assaulted him turn 2, but waited until turn 3 or even 4 I think that the game might have gone in JY2's favor.

Talk to reece and try it out. You also gotta realize that reece could have infiltrated, or outflanked, or various other tricks. Plus the stealers probably had FnP which even wraiths couldn't have gotten to kill many. Honestly it all came down to shooting up stuff, and because tesla is AP -, I think that's why so much survived (that and reece could actually make his armor saves this time lol)

Game #2 vs Reece completed on p.2.


Will get to responses a little later today. Thanks for reading.


BTW, here are the video reports for the 2 battles:


Game #1 Videorep - vs Frankie's Dark Eldar


Game #2 Videorep - vs Reece's Tyranids


Videoreps also found immediately after each game. Check them out!

Are those chaos fliers paper k? if they are they are amazing... Well either way they are great!

Defeatmyarmy wrote:Reecius vs jy2 video on frontline gaming blog.

I would like a crack at Reece's nids with my wraithwing, I also beat frankies dark elder in 1750. II think if you had more close combat and less shooting you would have done much better against Reece. Drop some stuff for 30 flayed ones in those night scythes and you could have picked your fights a lot more.

I think I can beat him with what I've got. It just happened that he outplayed me this time. 30 flayed ones in scythes sounds like a lot of points. I probably won't go that route as I want to actually get more shooty while maintaining my wraiths.

BTW, if you go to the Golden Throne in SJ, I'll probably see you there.

Zid wrote:
Don't think that would have made much a difference; the weakness of wraiths is large amounts of wounds. A unit of 19 stealers will put out a LOT of wounds before the wraiths even get to swing. The only thing I could see FOs even do to help is try and wall off some wraiths to prevent charges; and using them Jim would have to cut a lot of his mobility in order tofit them.

If anything Jy got far too aggressive and it allowed reece to capitalize on his positioning.

Correct. That is exactly what I did - played too aggressively against an even more assaulty army. I didn't take advantage of one of my true strengths - the ability to dictate where and when the battles will occur - and it cost me big time.

Yeah, taking Flayed Ones meant that I would have to sacrifice on some of my shooting and mobility and that's a change I didn't want to make, at least not yet.

Defeatmyarmy wrote:
I gotta agree on Jy2 being aggressive, but there are several reasons I say flayed ones....again.

1. 15 flayed ones are great at screening to deny power units a charge to your MVP units.

2. If wraiths are already in assault, and at least 3 survive there is a way to deny genestealers so many attacks on assaulting flayed ones if hit from the right angle ( I did this to a large unit of GS at BDG and destroyed the remaining 13, even with poor rolling in 1 turn)

3. Flayed ones in night scythes allow for flanking. Night Scythes are harder to kill than most people think, and get units to where they need to go, so long as the vehicle isnt taken out. It also gives flayed ones +2" on a charge.

It actually feels strange to use screening units in a wraithwing build. Usually, I'm the one who's on the offensive and it is my opponent who needs a screening unit. It almost feels like using Immotekh in a shooty list. Sure he can contribute, but oftentimes, he hampers your army as often as he does your opponent.

I suppose assaulting FO and wraiths into a unit is possible if done carefully, though if you're off, then you're looking at the FO being swept (not sure if the FO are fearless, don't have my codex with me) and a lot of No Retreat saves on the wraiths.

Now flanking with FO on night scythes is something I didn't really think about. It may work, though you'd have to wait to at least Turn 3 before they can assault anything. Hopefully by that time it isn't too late.

Defeatmyarmy wrote:
Tyranids are a brutal assault army, period, but most lack enough firepower. If Jy2 held back and fired some pot shots, baited him with the wraiths and not assaulted him turn 2, but waited until turn 3 or even 4 I think that the game might have gone in JY2's favor.

That is definitely a viable and more prudent strategy. However, I would have to weather the shooting from his 6 hive guards.

Kwi wrote:Wow, you drive all the way over there to play a game against a DE player to get experience in and all you get is an experimental list with experimental tactics (a very Dark Eldarly thing to do Frankie, I like it). I think the only way you are going to get to go against a DE venom spam list (or something serious) is by playing one when you are in a tournament. I know jy2 doesn't get to play in tournaments but when you play a game against tournament players that are not in a tournament, you tend to get their less-than-tournament-quality lists.

As for Frankie, I do that all the time too. You get an idea in your head about something you just got to try out at least once because you are seriously considering on using it in the next tournament - the idea is knawing at you and you got to get give it a try. Funny thing is, you try it out in a game like this and the opponent takes pictures and posts it for all to see. I did this once, trying out Vect in a list and just got pulverized by the opponent, then the DE community decries you unfit for DE generalship. Yah, it turns into the DE getting clubbed like baby seals but if that is what picture taking personalities wants to post then lets call the game for what it is.

I like the experimenting, believe it or not I enjoyed the game just taking notes on what worked and what didn't on a unit by unit basis - would love to see more DE experiments!!!

That's ok. I knew he was probably going to experiment with some things for Wargames Con. Heck, the list I brought was also an experimental list and this was only my 2nd game with them (my previous lists were even less shooty). I feel there's nothing wrong with playing against experimental lists in practice games as long as you are aware that the game is going to be published for the public to see (and that you don't mind the fact that you may possibly lose badly). To me, it's not just all about playing against the list only. The general behind the list is actually more important to me. If the general is good, then no matter what list he brings, I think the battles would always be fun and challenging (unless the dice was more extreme like it was in this game). Honestly, I feel that it is your opponent that makes the game enjoyable and not really his lists (though I do enjoy playing against a good general with a tough list).

Zid wrote:
Talk to reece and try it out. You also gotta realize that reece could have infiltrated, or outflanked, or various other tricks. Plus the stealers probably had FnP which even wraiths couldn't have gotten to kill many. Honestly it all came down to shooting up stuff, and because tesla is AP -, I think that's why so much survived (that and reece could actually make his armor saves this time lol)

Yeah, many good, experienced players can usually anticipate and react to what he thinks the opponent is about to do.

Stealers in cover with FNP is definitely hard to take down. That means it takes 4 successful wounds to take down only 1 model with regular shooting (i.e. 75% chance of surviving).

Red Corsair wrote:Are those chaos fliers paper k? if they are they are amazing... Well either way they are great!

They are actually foam with color printouts cut and pasted/glued on, I think. They're really, really well done.

Great game Jim, you were as gracious in defeat as you are in victory.

I felt like I was due one, you have sneaked a tie or a win on me several times despite having only a few models left!

I look forward to the rematch =)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Smitty

Yeah man, Frankie and I will be there, come say hi!

@Iago

Frankie's list is different but he just won the Slaughter in Space GT a few weeks back with it, so it is solid. It's just different. Frankie said he thinks Urien is better than vect though.

jy2 wrote:

Defeatmyarmy wrote:
Tyranids are a brutal assault army, period, but most lack enough firepower. If Jy2 held back and fired some pot shots, baited him with the wraiths and not assaulted him turn 2, but waited until turn 3 or even 4 I think that the game might have gone in JY2's favor.

That is definitely a viable and more prudent strategy. However, I would have to weather the shooting from his 6 hive guards.

Heh, as I was reading this I thought that Reece had used Mindshackle Scarabs on you yourself and you were somehow compelled to keep moving straight into the jaws of the tyranid force!

Ultimately, the Stealers were the key to everything and you had the perfect kind of shooting to decimate the Stealers for 2-3 turns before finishing them off with a massed Wraith charge.

Reece seemed to be exclusively firing his Hive Guard at your Wraiths because frankly those were by far his best targets for such shooting and you were totally presenting them to him on a platter. The Wraiths should have been kept out of range of the Hive Guard and your AV13 Skimmers should have been the Shield wall for your army. Yeah, the Hive Guard can down your AV13 stuff, but it isn't easy, especially since you have night-fight to hit him with. And if the Trygons/stealers do assault the skimmers they may down a few, but now you are able to counter-assault exactly where you want with your Wraiths and your Overlords instead of Reece dictating the combat match-ups.

Great report though, a fun read as always. It definitely felt as though you had gotten so comfortable with being the ultra-aggressive army that you kind of forgot there are some armies out there who are still more aggressive than yours!

@Jy2

I'm going toI try to make it to the golden throne, but 2 days off of full time work is hard for me to get.

Flayed ones can actually hit a flank turn 2 not 3 as troops are not required to start in dedicated transports. Deploy the transport on the table edge have the troop in reserve then turn 1 have the flayed ones embark in the scythe and boost to where they need to go. Unless spotlighted night fight shoul prevent most things Hitting the scythe Turn 2 deploy them and try to take out a few things with the twin linked tesla destructor. Keep in mind you can also do the same thing with your wraiths but they cannot ds if the scythe dies.

Defeatmyarmy wrote:Deploy the transport on the table edge have the troop in reserve then turn 1 have the flayed ones embark in the scythe and boost to where they need to go. Unless spotlighted night fight shoul prevent most things Hitting the scythe Turn 2 deploy them and try to take out a few things with the twin linked tesla destructor. Keep in mind you can also do the same thing with your wraiths but they cannot ds if the scythe dies.

Fast vehicles may not move Flat Out on a turn where a unit embarks or disembarks.

@janthkin

Funga! Foiled again! Well looks like its back to using imotekh....

Ouch...that was brutal. But I LOVED the D'eldar paint scheme
Ouch x2 that was ALSO brutal. I also loved the Tyranid paint scheme...it was just...so....purple... lol

@Yakface

Yeah, I threw units out to try and bait his fast movers so I would know where to hit them and he took it, so that worked in my favor.

Hive Guard bypass Night Fight, no? Since they don't need to see their target, they shouldn't be affected by Night Fight I would think.

Had he hung back and softened me up, it would have gone better for him I think. However, he would have to keep his Wraiths way back out of assault range to stay out of Hive Guard range, which would have allowed me to play to objectives and take the win.

Reecius wrote:Hive Guard bypass Night Fight, no? Since they don't need to see their target, they shouldn't be affected by Night Fight I would think.

You are incorrect. Line of Sight != Night Fight rules.

It's in INAT but not the GW FAQ.

TYR.47B.01 – Q: When using the Night Fighting rules, do Hive Guard have to roll for spotting distance?
A: They do. Night Fight spotting distance is a totally different concept from line of sight [RAW].