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Just got back from playing Mass Effect and I'd like to add this that I forgot to add in my previous post.
Like the Geth, Tau drones are networked intelligences that get smarter when they're are more.

I say that they should get the Ork mob rule, but instead of becoming fearless, after 10 models they can choose to pass of fail ld tests as needed.

I also support that they become non-scoring troops.

Maybe something like this for Pulse Rifles:

Regular fire mode: 24" STR5 AP6 Assault 2 (basically storm bolters with higher strength and worse AP)
Secondary fire mode: 24" STR7 AP4 Heavy 1, Gets Hot!

You Guys might want to take a look at the latest rumour about 6th ed.

A lot of what is being proposed is no longer necessary if these pan out.
RF weapons getting to shoot once at max distance while on the move

FNP going to 5+

Cover going to 5+ average

Wounds on closest models bringing back tactical positioning to allow for model sniping.

If true then Fire warriors only need to be brought up to the current format of grenades and Team lead being included at their current price of 10 pt each.

soulbrand wrote:Maybe something like this for Pulse Rifles:

Regular fire mode: 24" STR5 AP6 Assault 2 (basically storm bolters with higher strength and worse AP)
Secondary fire mode: 24" STR7 AP4 Heavy 1, Gets Hot!

Are you for real? No army should under any circumstances have access to line infantry with S7 weapons, Gets Hot! or not.

Are you for real?

Fair enough, if it makes you feel better then make it a free unit upgrade; one for every five models in the unit.

No army should under any circumstances have access to line infantry with S7 weapons, Gets Hot! or not.

You do realize that psycannons would give you basically the same number of shots with rending and upgradeable to +1 strength and no downside on a model (or two in a ten man squad) with BS4 T4 and 3+ Armor?

soulbrand wrote:

Are you for real?

Fair enough, if it makes you feel better then make it a free unit upgrade; one for every five models in the unit.

No army should under any circumstances have access to line infantry with S7 weapons, Gets Hot! or not.

You do realize that psycannons would give you basically the same number of shots with rending and upgradeable to +1 strength and no downside on a model (or two in a ten man squad) with BS4 T4 and 3+ Armor?

Psycannons are upgrade weapons, you don't get them standard on line infantry. Furthermore, they don't have a 36" range. Any army incorporating transports (bar Necrons) against Tau with that kind of firepower would just cease existing, unless Fire Warriors were hit with a price hike that I doubt Tau players would enjoy.

soulbrand wrote:Maybe something like this for Pulse Rifles:

Regular fire mode: 24" STR5 AP6 Assault 2 (basically storm bolters with higher strength and worse AP)
Secondary fire mode: 24" STR7 AP4 Heavy 1, Gets Hot!

Having a weapon with the "Gets Hot!" rule goes against the Tau fluff of technological superiority and safety. They would rather sacrifice some firepower to reduce the danger to the user, as apparent with their Plasma Rifles. As their battlesuit Plasma Rifles are only strength 6 I think having Fire Warriors with a strength 7 gun is a bit silly. Surely the most powerful weaponry would be on a suit, not in a team of their core infantry?

For Pulse Rifles I think it would be better if they were:

Regular: 30" range S5 AP5 Rapid Fire
Automatic: 18" S5 AP6 Assault 2

So they maintain their range advantage over other standard weapons and are also capable of putting out more firepower at shorter ranges either by sacrificing a point of AP (the Rifle doesn't put as much energy into each shot in order to preserve battery whilst maintaining a sustained rate of fire) or by getting within 12" in which they risk assault and so they keep the weapon firing at full power to make sure the enemy ends up dead.

Rumor is you'll be able to shoot rapid fire weapons full distance after moving. This alone helps out FW (and kroot).
What I'd like to see is a change to fusion blasters over any change is the basic pulse rifle s5 ap5 is awesome as is for a basic weapon.
How about fusion being s8 ap1 and either 18"-24" range and made a rapid fire weapon?
Ion cannon gaining rending?
New and cheaper grenade options?

Access to special rules that does not come with a huge disadvantage (i.e. ethearals) would help.
A way of giving hammerheads tank hunter would be nice, would help out ion heads and actually be an alt to RG.
HQ crisis having eternal warrior is a must.

Tun_Tau wrote:Rumor is you'll be able to shoot rapid fire weapons full distance after moving. This alone helps out FW (and kroot).
What I'd like to see is a change to fusion blasters over any change is the basic pulse rifle s5 ap5 is awesome as is for a basic weapon.
How about fusion being s8 ap1 and either 18"-24" range and made a rapid fire weapon?
Ion cannon gaining rending?
New and cheaper grenade options?

Access to special rules that does not come with a huge disadvantage (i.e. ethearals) would help.
A way of giving hammerheads tank hunter would be nice, would help out ion heads and actually be an alt to RG.
HQ crisis having eternal warrior is a must.

For the Fusion Blasters, 18" range I think. Making it a rapid fire weapon wouldn't have any impact a lot of the time (with them being carried by Relentless suits) unless you were close and I think two melta shots from one gun is a bit OP. What tank could survive 3 suits shooting rapid fire meltas into it within the melta bonus range? Not to mention what suits equipped with Fusion and Plasma would do to any terminator unit within rapid fire range.

For the Ion Cannon, what would rending give it? Tank killing ability and terminator killing ability. For killing tanks we have Railguns and Terminators are what plasma rifles are for. I think increasing the number of shots from the Ion Cannon could make it a more attractive option. Make it Heavy 4 or 5 and possibly twin linked. It would give it a bit of a boost in killing stuff in Power Armour (what it seems to be designed for) without changing its role.

For Ethereals, they need an Invulnerable save and power weapons. Possibly change the leadership test from being to prevent falling back to if you pass you continue as normal and if you fail that unit gains the Rage special rule and maybe Furious Charge? All units get preferred enemy as normal.

I think crisis suits need bs4 standard, higher for commanders. Stealth suits should have stealth rule, along with nightlight, vespids need longer range guns, and secondary movement. Fire warriors should be cheaper, and have acsess to support weapons. More troop types. Something other then FW or kroot. Maybe make FW static long range style, and bring in a rush style. Shorter range, but more shots and assault weapons.
Vehicles need to gain the fast rule, (tau supposed to be mobile speedy reactionary forces, but in game are too slow, and one of the slowest armies)

FIY, Triarch stalker's Heat Ray can either be a Heavy Flamer or a doubleshot MultiMelta. And is a walker.

Tau could get a walker unit. That'd be cool. Just stick it in a less crowded slot, like FA, or make it good enough to actually compete with suits. Which is anouther thing. It'd be nice to have other elite slots worth actually taking, rather than the whole "suits or gtfo" thing right now.

Having a weapon with the "Gets Hot!" rule goes against the Tau fluff of technological superiority and safety. They would rather sacrifice some firepower to reduce the danger to the user, as apparent with their Plasma Rifles. As their battlesuit Plasma Rifles are only strength 6 I think having Fire Warriors with a strength 7 gun is a bit silly. Surely the most powerful weaponry would be on a suit, not in a team of their core infantry?

Sorry but they do have weapons with Gets hot!

But only on a SC, and even then it's because it's Experimental Weaponry, which is being field tested...And because it's basically an assault 2 Lascannon and a few sternguard modes of taking everything else out too.

DarthSpader wrote:I think crisis suits need bs4 standard, higher for commanders. Stealth suits should have stealth rule, along with nightlight, vespids need longer range guns, and secondary movement. Fire warriors should be cheaper, and have acsess to support weapons. More troop types. Something other then FW or kroot. Maybe make FW static long range style, and bring in a rush style. Shorter range, but more shots and assault weapons.
Vehicles need to gain the fast rule, (tau supposed to be mobile speedy reactionary forces, but in game are too slow, and one of the slowest armies)

If you give the vehicles Multi trackers then they move and shoot like fast vehicles. So a Hammerhead can move 12" and still fire its main gun or move 6" and fire all of its weaponry. That makes them pretty mobile.

What Tau vehicles need is for defensive weaponry to be S5 and below, as opposed to S4 and below, considering that no offensive weaponry you can fit onto their vehicles is S4.

Deadshot wrote:FYI, Triarch stalker's Heat Ray can either be a Heavy Flamer or a doubleshot MultiMelta. And is a walker.

On a single vehicle it is OK. In a unit where you can have three suits who are also packing Missile Pods, giving them 6 S8 AP1 Melta shots and 6 S7 missile shots, it becomes a bit broken.

Sorry but they do have weapons with Gets hot!

But only on a SC, and even then it's because it's Experimental Weaponry, which is being field tested...And because it's basically an assault 2 Lascannon and a few sternguard modes of taking everything else out too.

I've actually been enjoying playing my Tau again since I got some Imperial armour models, including the aforementioned Commander R'alai. Also, Tetras are awesome and should be standard in the next codex.

I talked to my local GW manager last friday and he told me rapid fire was going 2 shots at full range if you stand still, 5+ cover, able to flame terrain, and fliers are going to get sick. Basically his words were " they want more stuff to die" Shooty will be in for 6th. What will it take for Tau? More higher capacity shot weapons, 3 wound xv8's and bs4...same price, 5+ on kroot, able to have the fw pdf in the codex ie: tetras, 10-12 shot hammerhead gunships, and a flier hopefully not the the cuda. Ion Cannon is no longer viable w/ the plasma cannon on hammerheads imo.

Tun_Tau wrote:Rumor is you'll be able to shoot rapid fire weapons full distance after moving. This alone helps out FW (and kroot).
What I'd like to see is a change to fusion blasters over any change is the basic pulse rifle s5 ap5 is awesome as is for a basic weapon.
How about fusion being s8 ap1 and either 18"-24" range and made a rapid fire weapon?
Ion cannon gaining rending?
New and cheaper grenade options?

Access to special rules that does not come with a huge disadvantage (i.e. ethearals) would help.
A way of giving hammerheads tank hunter would be nice, would help out ion heads and actually be an alt to RG.
HQ crisis having eternal warrior is a must.

I heard a similar rumours that said something along the lines of relentess units, like our suits, cacn rapidfire up to max range. Would help our FireKnife suits out a lot

acekevin8412 wrote:I heard a similar rumours that said something along the lines of relentess units, like our suits, cacn rapidfire up to max range. Would help our FireKnife suits out a lot

Our suits already do that.

DakkaHammer wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:I heard a similar rumours that said something along the lines of relentess units, like our suits, cacn rapidfire up to max range. Would help our FireKnife suits out a lot

Our suits already do that.

He meant they can fire twice up to maximum range when moving.

Oh, I see that now. My bad.

DarthSpader wrote:I think crisis suits need bs4 standard, higher for commanders. Stealth suits should have stealth rule, along with nightlight, vespids need longer range guns, and secondary movement. Fire warriors should be cheaper, and have acsess to support weapons. More troop types. Something other then FW or kroot. Maybe make FW static long range style, and bring in a rush style. Shorter range, but more shots and assault weapons.
Vehicles need to gain the fast rule, (tau supposed to be mobile speedy reactionary forces, but in game are too slow, and one of the slowest armies)

1)BS4 Crisis, BS 5&up Commanders.......Agreed

2)Fire Warriors Cheaper.......................Disagree. Instead, give them grenades, Team Lead for free, Improve bonding knife to may regroup if enemy is within 6" also and make shield drones have a 2-3 inch bubble affect againt ranged combat but does nothing for CC.

3)Vespid.........Disagree. Instead, make them 2 wound models to fit with their fluff, give them an option poison sting attack in place of using claws, make the Neutron blaster: range template S- AP 3 Assault 1*
*Neutron Blaster is a Poison weapon that wounds on 5+

After that limit the unit size to 3-5 models and allow the strain leader to take wargear(Drones)

3)Another troop type.......Agreed. Gun drones would be perfect IMO.

BTW, FWs can take Carbines, which are shorter ranged rush in weapons. With the rumoured 6th ed rf rules change it will be easy to predict the carbines getting a buff in either rof, the ability to launch emp grenades or the photon launcher gettin a night spinner type of effect.

Also, Tau vehicles are rumoured to get an 8" base movement in 6th with the option of doing 16". What worries me is the rumour that everyone now has the Crytal targeting matrix that in essence allows vehicles to Jump-shoot-move. If this is true then what do the Tau really need?

loota boy wrote:Tau could get a walker unit. That'd be cool. Just stick it in a less crowded slot, like FA, or make it good enough to actually compete with suits. Which is anouther thing. It'd be nice to have other elite slots worth actually taking, rather than the whole "suits or gtfo" thing right now.

No, no, no, no. There is a reason that Broadsides are not walkers. That is because they can't be shaken. Walkers and dreads spend most of there games not shooting but instead just walking forward and threatening units with cc. The only walkers that don't do that are IG and Eldar, I see no need to encroach on other codices territories.

Also, fluff-wise there is the concept of the tau tech wants a one to two man infantry unit is equal to a tank or a walker. A small empire with great tech wants to be as efficient with its resources as possible. Walkers would feel like a step backwards. The same goes for Tank Squadrons, leave those to the IG and instead up the RoF on the Hammerhead Railgun and most other weapons in general. Fortunately, it looks like 6th ed is going to do that for the pulse rifle through increased mobility.

Something like a dreadknight would be awesome.
I don't mean an MC, but a giant suit with 4 wounds and some decent toughness and armor, and the ability to take some really heavy weaponry would be pretty cool.

One of the rumors from ghost21 that got my slightly excited was a heavy slot vespid mc. sorta a let down =\
(FYI the rumor was bogus)

I just think it'd be nice to have an elite slot that WASN'T suits worth taking. You know, for variety and all that.

Greater Knarlocs perhaps?

T5 Monstrous Creature ridden by 2 Kroot, taken in packs of 1-3?

I think that if Tau must be the worst Close Combat Army bar none they must also be the best Shooting Army bar none. Likewise, if Tau are to concede the psyker battle then they should improve somewhere else (movement?) to compensate.

The old codex was built on giving disadvantages for each advantage, but not advantages for each disadvantage. This is the reason many Tau players struggle today.

Well... this is just my 2 cents but...

Tau are supposed to be a shooty army. And while they have a nice couple of fancy guns ( fluffwise anyways. ) they arent as shooty as they should be. Their overall ballistic skill is rather mediocre. Their alien allies are pretty much useless except as fodder shields. and their basic infantry can't even get any decent heavy or special weapons. come on even IG infantry squads have more options.

What I would like to see is a slight increase in balsitic skill. ( or maybe the option to make a unit of fire warriors veterans with +1 BS for a fair points cost ) some half decent armour ( 5+ ) for kroot. Usefull vespids ( come on they SUCK. ) and maybe a special or heavy weapon for fire warrior squads. Because as awesome as battlesuits are they cant be everywhere, and you can only field so many of them before your FOC is full. Some upgrades for gun drone squads might be good too. because right now drones are just another fodder unit to keep stuff away from your oh so squishy FW units.

As for vehicles... maybe a few guess weapons? or would that make them to much like the IG? Maybe its just my issue with railguns ( cant seem to roll a decent hit with the things >_> )

Anyways just my thoughts on the matter. Take em with a grain of slat. im far from an expert when it comes to game rules n stats.

Some things here:
Barring a fluff/doctrine change, FW are not allowed to heavy/special weapons for reasons similar to why Sm chapters are capped at 1000 heads.

Fire Warriors are mostly fine as is. BS3 w/ 30" S5 or if the 6th edition rumours are true, 30+6" is fine for a basic non-SM infantryman.
-Maybe give the Shas'Ui and Photon grenades for free and the cost them 8ppm, since Kabalite Warriors are 9ppm with a better statline, except save, and can take special/heavy weapons.
-We can remove Seeker Missiles as a vehicle upgrade and just let Markerlights call down strikes off the table, ie orbital/stratospheric Manta.

For Kroot, I don't think need armour, at least not 5+. Perhaps a 6+ like orks combined with True stealth. What Kroot need are Free/Cheaper Shapers and some "Evolutionary Abilities" Little Things like relentless Kroot Rifles, Furious Charge, Fleet...etc.

I personally would like to see Vespid gain a 4+ save and rending in close combat. And make their gun either 12" assault 2 or 18" assault 1.

Yeah, Firewarriors don't need to be better so much as cheaper.

Also make all markerlights networked. Having a Shas'ui wih the ability to turn his unit into BS 4 should cut a bit of grumbling regarding BS 3.

The Kroot, make their rules less situational, make their shapers cheaper and definitely evo upgrades.

Vespid, I am fine with the 5+ and the statline. I would like rending in CC. I'd love their gun to be Assault 2 with an alternate fire mode that is Template, 4 4 Assault 1

I would like to see a couple new units though. Mainly some of the forgeworld kroot stuff adapted into plastic with fitting rules for regulair games. Like the Knarloc riders and the great Knarloc i always liked those a lot.