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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/10 16:42:53
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Indiana
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Changes to Tau
Decrease across the board for points costs for pathfinder units, I think fire warriors should be 8 if a guardsmen is 5
Increase leadership on crisis suits
1-2 units of crisis suits/ pathfinder units could be moved to the troops slot.
Keep standard tau at BS 3, however make the target lock a built in thing for crisis suits so they are always BS 4
One idea that I had was that tau fire warriors can get a add on to the unit like necron courts, or with things like the eldar heavy weapons teams. Imagine each tau unit having a reliable pinning attack?
A dedicated CC unit of suits would be an interesting unlock. Like stealth suits with that invisibility rule(I dont know what it does but it sounds cool) who can perform assassin strikes with shooting or attacks. The problem is that from the fluff the tau are not physically designed for CC, and the kroot are kind of a joke in this edition. But that is supposed to be their weakness. Its just that their strength got really hurt this edition, I would say almost 100% because of the 4+ cover. It used to be that they would shoot you down, but once you hit their lines you daisy chained down from combat to combat. I could also see them getting lots of units with the Quake special rule from the necron book(that I bet will become a weapon property in 6th edition) that forces their opponents to slow down as they try to get within range.
I bet they are going to advance the fluff and say that farsight has be MSSed by the necrons when he found the blade he wields.
Changes to the core rules
Reduction of the standard cover save to 5+
Changes in the morale system(things like pinning and the like)
I think that it will be interesting to see what 6th edition does for the tau and all those other armies. Tau just need a few tweeks to one or two rules in the core rulebook and they could do quite well I think.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/10 16:48:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/10 17:03:56
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Furious Raptor
A top the tip of the endless spire
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Ok I'm not a tau player, so I can't say I know their down falls inside out but these are my thoughts:
A reduction in points largely across the board may help.
A raise to I3 would be good but limit I4 to characters and heroes (after all I4 is superhuman levels...)
A reworking of certain squad setups and options (such as Vespid, Firewarriors, Drones, amongst others)
The problem largely revolves around the fact that their codex is early 4th edition and is aging now. A simple update would rectify this.
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''I am the prophet of doom!''
Really?
''Yes... the last thing you shall see before your eyes close...''
.....will be?
''....your bedroom ceiling'' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/10 22:10:55
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Sinewy Scourge
Lawrence, KS
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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/454529.page#4381693
Here I suggested that Markerlight hits be used to either allow units benefiting from the hits to be able to move and fire at full range of their rapid fire weapons, or have the rapid fire range increased from 12" to 30" if they stood still. Stacking is still being discussed. I really like the suggestion that Pulse Rifles get to add 6" to their range with a ML hit. It's a small thing, to be sure, but interesting.
I would increase the BS of all Shas'ui to 4, and potentially of Shas'Vres to 5. The only way to advance through the ranks of the Firecaste is through War. By proving yourself time and again and surviving. Why would anyone trusted to have a suit who has proven him or herself in battle by doing nothing but drilling and firing their weapon in combat not be amazing? At least as good as IG vets? Supposedly bcause of some half assed assertion about a species who evolved exclusively as ranged combatants not being able to see. I think it's time to put THAT piece of fluff to bed. If Draigo can punk a primarch, Firewarriors can read the bottom frakking line of an eye chart.
I would reduce the cost of Devilfish by at least 20 points. I would allow them to take weapons upgrades beyond burst cannons. Smart missles? Missle Pods? Yes please! This at least puts them somewhere on par with Wave Serpents and Raiders/Venoms. Somewhere in the middle in terms of survivability. and definitely lower in terms of damage output, but a vast improvement over the current situation. This way you can give squads a "heavy weapons upgrade" after a fashion, without violating the part of Tau fluff that actually makes them different: their sense of specialization. Putting heavy weapons in FW squads makes them just ablative wounds for a gun. And though sticking the HW on a drone SEEMS to work, instead you have FW killing themselves to protect a piece of tech. What are they, Space Marines? Hell no. Leave Heavy Weapons in the hands of specialists.
I would strongly consider, based on the fact that all Tau weapons save railguns and missle launchers are actually plasma based, that the Burst Cannon be given rending. I am fine with its current range if given rending, but an increase in range or rate of fire would not go amiss either. Getting Fusion Blasters a range of 18 like Heat lances would make a BIT more sense for Tau, allowing them to get out of the way more easily. Not necessary, but it would make AT work a bit easier.
I really like the Markerlight mechanic, and I would love to see them work better to emphasize the skill that Tau show in target priority and combined arms. Combined with my above suggestions, I would almost certainly state that a ML hit could then be used to launch a Seeker Missle. Not "now roll a 2+ and lose your 10 point missle that you paid 140pts for if you miss"
Additional ideas: multiple hits from weapon systems on a marked target might allow for a modifier to the vehicle damage chart. Markerlight hits might allow a reroll on the vehicle damage chart. Markerlights might force rerolls to successful armor saves (the other ideas I had: the Tau player gets to choose which removed models get removed, or spend a ML hit to lower the AP on a unit's weapons by one step only. These seemed too powerful.) ML hits can reduce the scatter on blast or large blast weapons or cause them to roll to hit as normal.
Also: Include the Tetra, and move Pathfinders to Troops for scoring. This way, you have a reason to take Tetras, PF's, AND FW. The PF's camp home objectives and lend support with markerlights, Tetras offer mobile ones but are flimsy and non scoring, and Firewarriors are supported by both.
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Therion wrote:6th edition lands on June 23rd!
Good news. This is the best time in the hobby. Full of promise. GW lets us down each time and we know it but secretly we're hoping that this is the edition that GW gives us a balanced game that can also be played competitively at tournaments. I'm loving it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/10 22:46:38
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
St. George, UT
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For everyone who says point drops, I say increase firepower output and survivability.
I already have a horde army in my orks. And for those who don't play orks and want a horde army there is also Nids and Guard.
Tau need to keep their current model count and just do more damage by A - flat out doing more damage and B - sticking around longer so they can do more damage.
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See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:

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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/10 22:52:53
Subject: Re:Tau: What Will It Take?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Making Pulse rifles Heavy 2 is a decent idea.
Although you do have the problem of them being rooted in place while they are shooting, making them easier to catch in melee.
Maybe make them Heavy 2 or Assault 1 weapons with 30" range.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/10 23:21:56
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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One Crisis Team may be taken as a troops choice when you have a Commander in XV8 armour. Lower the price of pretty much everything, or make stuff better so that it is actually worth the points it currently costs. So Fire Warriors at BS4 with Photon Grenades as standard, Crisis Suits possibly a built in invulnerable save (which Shield Generators make better) along with some points drops on some of their wargear (Shield Gens and Plasma Rifles are two which leap out at me as being a bit overcosted). How about Fire Warriors having the ability to make a stand and shoot reaction style thing when charged? Not rapid fire (that would be too OP) but one shot each would do a bit to thin out the enemy before the Tau get decimated in CC. Honour Blades need to be a power weapon on top of the +2 strength bonus. Ethereals need an Invulnerable save (possibly re-rollable too) and their Honour guard should also be equipped with Honour Blades. Farsight makes Crisis Suits troops, though has to take at least one unit of Fire Warriors. When you're taking away the option of using multiple units of the Tau's heavy hitters (Broadsides and Hammerheads) you need a bit more help in return than just free bonding knives and preferred enemy against orks. Possibly bring back the old rule where units in his army can gain +1 Weapon Skill and Initiative, maybe for a small points increase (as it originally was) per unit or maybe for free. It would go a way to making his bodyguard a bit more useful in close combat as opposed to being wound allocation. Bring Aun'shi back and add a Kroot special character but otherwise I'm fine with there not being many SCs as that seems to me to go against the Tau way. It's putting individuals above the whole. With the ones they have at the moment all their victories were accomplished through inspiring leadership and tactics. How many master tacticians and strategists can you put into a codex before it becomes boring? Automatically Appended Next Post: Grey Templar wrote:Making Pulse rifles Heavy 2 is a decent idea. Although you do have the problem of them being rooted in place while they are shooting, making them easier to catch in melee. Maybe make them Heavy 2 or Assault 1 weapons with 30" range. Lower the assault weapon range down to something like 18", otherwise it would probably be a bit OP.
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This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2012/06/11 02:27:45
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/10 23:57:57
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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Well I have a few simple solutions.
1. Multitrackers should honestly be standard on suits.
2. BS4 for firewarriors and suits of all types.
3. Keep points values mostly the same where they are with the upgrades I just stated above. Adjust a few points though.
4. Change how marker lights work. It should be Assault 1, not heavy 1 and allow the unit firing them get to benefit from the light. If it stays heavy 1 then you should be allowed to call in a seeker missile from off board (striking as a barrage weapon). As it stands with current ballistic skill those things cost too much.
5. More drone variants.
6. More suit weapons.
7. Keep kroot at current cost, but comes with 6+ by default. Shaper should allow unit to gain an ability at the beginning of the game. I would have it work like this. Roll a D3 for a stat upgrade before deployment. 1 = +1 strength, 2 = +1 toughness, 3 +1 initiative. Nothing too game breaking, but gives them a neat boost.
8. Vespid point reduction. As they stand they are crap.
9. Organic heavy weapons for fire warrior squad. No more than say 2. Rail rifles would be a good choice or perhaps a drone that has, say, missile pods/ burst cannons, etc.
Those are the few changes I would give Tau. I play Guard mind you and have fought easily 100 games against Tau. My buddy really liked playing 3 games a night when he did play Tau and we tried a few of these changes. When we did the army seemed very balanced against my own.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/11 00:07:57
Infantry leads the way! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 02:08:15
Subject: Re:Tau: What Will It Take?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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There are a lot of things that need to be improved for the Tau to work properly:
1.) The Tau need MUCH better weapons
-Tau are supposed to be a shooty race, but with the exception of the Pulse Rifle and Railgun, Tau weapons are inferior to there imperial counterparts
-Compare Tau weapons to their Imperial counterparts on parallel weapons platfomrs, for example Piranhas vs. Landspeeders
-Burst Cannons vs. Heavy Bolters and Assault Cannons, Missile Pods vs. Autocannons, Fusion Blasters vs. Multimeltas, Flamers vs. Heavy Flamers, Railrifles vs. ANYTHING
-Some additional powerful weapons unique to the Tau would also help
2.) Tau need more mobility, just to keep abreast of with the faster 5th edition armies
3.) Tau need stronger troops
-Troops need to be resilient enough to hold objectives
-There needs to be troops based options for dealing with various target types, so Tau can incorporate a significant number of scoring troops without sacrificing fighting ability
4.) Markerlights need to be revamped
-They need to be more easily incorporated into a Tau army, currently they are prohibitively expensive
-They need to be made assault, so markerlight carriers can keep pace with the rest of the army
5.) Tau need better Leadership
-Small model count units plus Ld7-8 = units running off the board after receiving minor casaulties
-Vehicle tank shocks are often more lethal to your army than their weapons
-Your main option to cover for weak leadership creates its own leadership problems thanks to price of failure
5.) All the bullshity rules need to be removed from the codex
-Nobody is going to take Ethereals as long as their army is subject to the Price of Failure
-Nodody is going to pay to strip infiltrate from their Kroot by incorporating a Krootox
-There is no reason to force Pathfinders to take a Devilfish
-Farsight's scrambling of the FOC is entirely unnecessary
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 02:21:08
Subject: Re:Tau: What Will It Take?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Tau really aren't that hard to fix the main things that could boost them
* Make markerlights assault 1 weapons instead of heavy 1
* Some kind of modification to pulse weapons, perhaps give them a special rule so that they can shoot twice up to their maximum range if they didn't move and they used a markerlight counter
* Ability to field special/heavy weapons with infantry, perhaps introduce Gue'vesa for that purpose since drones are depressing and humans can lift big guns (at least in teams)
* Lower the cost of their transports
* Modify the shittiness particularly in the fast attack slot. Honestly you get vespids who can kill marines reliably, but have to get close and die to assaults, you get piranahs and gun drones
Beyond that Tau is not bad, they certainly have potential.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 11:26:22
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Drone without a Controller
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Why not simply upgrade Pulserifles to Railrifles? That way tau get more low volume, high quality firepower and a reliable way to deal with MeQ?
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4.000 1.750 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 12:54:14
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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taudau wrote:Why not simply upgrade Pulserifles to Railrifles? That way tau get more low volume, high quality firepower and a reliable way to deal with MeQ?
Because that would be horribly overpowered. Equipping every Fire Warrior with a S6 AP3 gun with a 36" range would elevate them above GK in terms of power.
It would mean that Fire Warriors could kill any infantry in the game which isn't in terminator armour or it's equivalent, most likely wounding on 2+ as well and even inflicting instant death on races like Eldar, IG and Dark Eldar.
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The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 13:44:22
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Drone without a Controller
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While only hitting half the time and only killing a quarter of the time in total, yep. (assuming no markerlights spent to raise BS above 3 and the, in 5th abundant, 4+ cover). Considering that they'd still die horribly if anyone even looks their way (t3, 4+sv) I don't consider an average number of 3 kills for a 135point investment to be anywhere near as good as Grey Knights.
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4.000 1.750 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 14:00:06
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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This subject always comes up, and people always propose 'improvements' which are stupid: higher BS, less points cost, Crisis suits as troops, assault Fire Warriors with power weapons and Rail Pistols (I kid you not, this has been proposed in all seriousness)...
What they need is stuff which better models their supposed fluff advantages. One thing is FoC. Tau are supposed to be very flexible and adaptive. Yet, their FoC is easily the most unflexible of all armies.
Tau also need something to protect them from their worst enemies - multi-assault and sweeping advance. I don't know what it could be, likely some sort of special rule for Fire Warriors or Kroot. This is related to biggest Tau problem, crappy troops.
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Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 14:02:19
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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taudau wrote:While only hitting half the time and only killing a quarter of the time in total, yep. (assuming no markerlights spent to raise BS above 3 and the, in 5th abundant, 4+ cover). Considering that they'd still die horribly if anyone even looks their way (t3, 4+sv) I don't consider an average number of 3 kills for a 135point investment to be anywhere near as good as Grey Knights.
Let's do the maths.
Unit of 10 Space Marines shooting at them with Boltguns at 24" range.
2/3 shots hit = 6.666 hits
2/3 wounds = 4.444 wounds
1/2 saved = 2.22 = 2 dead Tau
remaining 10 Tau return fire.
1/2 shots hit = 5 hits
5/6 wounds = 4.1666 wounds
(assuming cover) 1/2 save = 2 dead Space Marines, if no cover then 4 dead marines
Now lets see how it happens when Tau shoot first.
12 shots, 1/2 hit = 6 hits
5/6 wounds = 5 wounds
If no cover then that's 5 dead marines, if cover then 3 dead marines.
Cover marines return fire.
7 shots, 2/3 hit = 4.666 hits
2/3 wounds = 3.111 wounds
1/2 saved = 2 dead Tau
Non cover marines return fire
5 shots, 2/3 hit = 3.333 hits
2/3 wounds = 2.222 wounds
1/2 saved = 1 dead Tau
So as you can see if the Tau Fire Warriors are equipped with rail rifles then in a straight up shooting match they will kill, on average and with cover, the same number of soldiers who cost 1.6 times as many points as them as these soldiers will kill of them. Add in the fact that the marines will have most likely already taken casualties from shooting before getting within range and it becomes even more in the Fire Warriors favour.
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The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 14:09:24
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Drone without a Controller
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So... we're comparing a unit that only ever uses a single weapon type (firewarriors) to the basic gun of a unit that uses basic weapons mixed with some special/heavy ones?
That's not a good base for an argument. It would be much more reasonable to factor in a missile launcher or a heavy bolter on the marine side.
Although, if you want to continue with this line of reasoning compare them to other basic troop choices with their basic weapons as well please (imperial guardsmen for example, who will loose 2,5 guardsmen and kill 3 firewarriors in return).
Edit: Lest I forget. You're also comparing only the shooting aspect of both troops - and completely ignore that virtually anything will wipe out your firewarriors in close combat.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/11 14:24:26
4.000 1.750 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 14:29:23
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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taudau wrote:So... we're comparing a unit that only ever uses a single weapon type (firewarriors) to the basic gun of a unit that uses basic weapons mixed with some special/heavy ones?
That's not a good base for an argument. It would be much more reasonable to factor in a missile launcher or a heavy bolter on the marine side.
Although, if you want to continue with this line of reasoning compare them to other basic troop choices with their basic weapons as well please (imperial guardsmen for example).
Edit: Lest I forget. You're also comparing only the shooting aspect of both troops - and completely ignore that virtually anything will wipe out your firewarriors in close combat.
With a S6 AP3 gun with 36" range not much will be able to get into close combat with them. The only real threat would be enemies with 2+ saves and some Plasma equipped Crisis Suits will deal with them before they get a chance to get into combat, due to their nature of being small elite units.
A heavy bolter would add one or two more kills. Not enough to really swing the battle.
The Fire Warriors will be shooting at those marines from 36" up until the marines get close enough to shoot back. It will take at least a turn (assuming 6" move and then getting a 6" run), most likely two, before they are in range. No marine player is going to sit at 36" range and just fire the heavy bolter, they will run to get the rest of the unit in range as well. Some of that moving is going to take them out of cover and when that happens half of their unit gets wiped off the board in one round of shooting.
Fire Warriors with Rail Rifles are broken.
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The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 16:00:56
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
Ye Olde North State
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...And while they would die to a stiff breeze in cc, they have the ability to take on transports as well. They'd be pretty damn frightening to DE and other lists with light armored vehicles.
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grendel083 wrote:"Dis is Oddboy to BigBird, come in over."
"BigBird 'ere, go ahead, over."
"WAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHH!!!! over"
"Copy 'dat, WAAAAAAAGGGHHH!!! DAKKADAKKA!!... over" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 16:05:05
Subject: Re:Tau: What Will It Take?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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I could see maybe one FW per squad getting a Railrifle, or maybe having access to a Sniper Drone for the Shas'ui. But the entre squad would be broken as
Then Tau armies would be nothing but maxed out Fire Warriors in Devilfish backed up by a few Plasma suits.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 16:12:56
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Infiltrating Broodlord
The Faye
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Tau do need updating.
Things that i'd like to see are BS4 firewarriors. Veteran Guard are BS4 and Tau have only 1 thing to train at there entire lives and that is shooting so I don't see a problem.
I'd like to see Pulse Rifels do something different. Make them something like range 30 assualt 1 heavy 2.
They need access to heavy weapons and a cheap Sargent equivelent.
Crisis suits increase toughness please.
Markerlights not heavy weapons. Its a pain.
I'd like the hammerhead tanks to be 1-3 in a squadron too.
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We love what we love. Reason does not enter into it. In many ways, unwise love is the truest love. Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket. But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.
Chaos Knights: 2000 PTS
Thousand Sons: 2000 PTS - In Progress
Tyranids: 2000 PTS
Adeptus Mechanicus: 2000 PTS
Adeptus Custodes: 2000 PTS - In Progress |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 16:14:59
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman
Northern Ireland, Newtownards
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It will take a bullet to the face and many desasterous loss before they succeed. HOWEVER a friend from my local GW says they are a specialist army and need a pro player behind them too be good. No offence to your skills or you of course. This pro player statement is true.
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FOR GAUNT! FOR THE EMPORER!! FOR TANITH!!!
Join the Tanith at:
Imperial Guard. Tanith First and Only Regiment. Be a Ghost! (new members welcome)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 16:49:05
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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What do Tau need? Commander Special Character that makes Crisis Suits troops
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 17:33:00
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Lieutenant Colonel
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I think they need a CC avoidance buff. Kind of like a displacer field, so if are charged by an enemy unit on a roll of 4+ they instantly displace and can teleport a maximum of 12" as determined by the Tau Player.
It would be fun playing catch the Mech suit?
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Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 18:03:38
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
Perth/Glasgow
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mwnciboo wrote:I think they need a CC avoidance buff. Kind of like a displacer field, so if are charged by an enemy unit on a roll of 4+ they instantly displace and can teleport a maximum of 12" as determined by the Tau Player.
It would be fun playing catch the Mech suit?
or boost their initiative and give the Hit and run
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Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 18:09:06
Subject: Re:Tau: What Will It Take?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Or maybe they get to move D6" before the enemy makes their assault moves. This movement can prevent the assault.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 18:56:58
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Pr give an option.like fantasy Stand and Shoot I think.
If a unit didn't fire.in the preceding.shooting phase.of their own turn, they may perform a Snapfire to enemy assaulters. Each model may fire a single shot from any weapon on a 4+. Each model misllust roll seperately and only 1 shot is fired per gun, regardless if it is Heavy 3 or Assault 2 or what. These shots aclutomatically hit. After casualties have been resolved the assault continues as normal. Casualties count for combat resolution
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I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures!
DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+
Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 19:05:19
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Fireknife Shas'el
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Tau needs
1. Either highes BS fire warriors or lower cost.
2. Tetras.
3. an updated and in line codex.
4. Kroot to be a better screen unit who hold up in combat they don't have to be ultra killy but being tough would do the trick.
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8000 Dark Angels (No primaris)
10000 Lizardmen (Fantasy I miss you)
3000 High Elves
4000 Kel'shan Ta'u
"He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which." -Douglas Adams |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 19:07:18
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
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Pulse Rifles: Rapid fire 2
Translates to 2 shots each guy at 30 inches, and at rapid fire range "12" (should be 15...) they each get 4 shots. Price and BS can stay the same if that change occurs.
Carbines assault 2, and invoke pinning at -3 LD or something
Railguns really need a rule like ordiance were they roll 2d6 and take the highest for pen.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 19:46:38
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Stealthy Kroot Stalker
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As long as the Tau get the Dark Eldar treatment next year, I dont' really mind what gets changed.
Personally though, I would like to see the following:
General Recosting to 5th/6th edition levels.
No FW heavy weaposn. Instead remove Seeker Missiles from vehicles except the Skyray and have them as off-board support fired from Mantas. To compensate, Skyrays are the only source of Variant Seekers.
Rending and 4+ save for Vespid.
Greater Knarlocs and Knarloc Riders, just because.
Kroot Evolutions
More Characters
A gunship/flier.
BS4 Suits free Multi-trackers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 19:49:03
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The main thing Tau needs are better transports. Fire Warriors are comparatively crappy, but cutting back the points cost slightly and giving them some free upgrades (like photon grenades) would be nice.
But their transports are slow, have no fire points, no heavy weapons, and are extremely expensive. You are going to have a lot of S5 AP5 fire already with Tau - using a Devilfish means trading a whole squad of pulse rifle fire for 3-4 shots with shorter range.
I'd love to see revolutionary new stuff and heavy weapons in troops and a ton of long-range fire options, but I'd settle for not having the worst of everything, except for heavy support. Hammerheads and Broadsides are awesome, make everything else as useful, and you have a winning formula.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/11 19:58:39
Subject: Tau: What Will It Take?
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Fireknife Shas'el
All over the U.S.
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Jayden63 wrote:BS 4 Firewarriors and BS 4 suits equals elite army, but they are xenos and as such shouldn't be as good as SM on a killy basis.
IMO the proper Tau army at 1500 points should field about 60 models including tanks. This army should be able to fight competitively against Necrons, BA, SW, DE, and Guard. GK is just such a badly designed army I don't care if anything reaches that OTT power level again.
So that means making stuff more survivable and making stuff more killy so that the army can last until turn 7 and still have the scoring units required to win/draw.
While I disagree with BS 4 Fire warriors because it would remove the need/usefullness of markerlights and the Tau style of combined arms, Crisis suits should be BS 4 because they are the Taus vet squads. Making Tau Bs4 does not in itself make them equal to SM(Lack of cc ability, lower initiative, ect..)
The statement that Tau shouldn't be as good as SM on a killy basis is funny and sad. There is the implication that the Tau should be hadicapped even further than sacrificing cc ability. I feel that if Tau give up cc then they should be every bit as killy as SM in shooting and then have equipment and rules that allow for enough movement/agility to have a chance at avoiding cc(IF PLAYED WELL).
AustonT wrote: I'm hoping that the next Tau update doubles the number and type of Kroot forces and makes the Tau more of a high tech but smaller number IG...kind of like what they were (are?).
^This is as wrong as a gorilla in a bikini.
Jayden63 wrote:Tau need to keep their current model count and just do more damage by A - flat out doing more damage and B - sticking around longer so they can do more damage.
^This is dead on.
High Guys,
Been a while but seeing what some new players are asking for has lured me out of lurking.
First) Tau are not Xenos Guard! While both armies are focused on ranged combat with little cc ability this is where the similarities end.
The IG is a classic attrition warfare army while the Tau follow a manoevuer warfare doctrine. This is about as opposite in design and playstyle as you can get.
The fact that the Tau players' aging codex has reduced them to often castling and behaving like gunline IG in game is just evidence of GW's failings to properly support their IP.
Second)Tau players know what they want but, like anyone else, find compromise difficult. Also keep in mind that the Tau player fanbase is split between those who are pro Tau and those who want the Kroot to have their own codex. Both sides know what they want, but a balanced codex will never make both sides completely happy.
Third)There is a difference between what we want and what it will take to bring the Tau up to par. Three things in 5th ed that really hurt the Tau more than anything else were:
A) Wound allocation removing tactical positioning from the game. Manoevuer warfare is based on tactical positioning.
B) KPs. This combined with losing the ability to tactically weaken units with carefully positioned shooting units and that KP made a 93 point crisis team an equal loss to a 400-800 point deathstar realllyy hurt the Tau. It is very hard to wipe units like that completely with just ranged attacks. With VP you got half credit for reducing a unit to below half strength.
C) GWs method and manner for updating their armies. Yes, GW is a company in the business of selling models but intentionally unbalancing the game to do so seems like it would be less profitable than trickling out steady improvements to all armies at the same time. Oh well, there is a reason that they are a multi-national corp and I'm a small business owner.
Now, 6th ed could easily fix the first two problems and leave any improvements needed by the Tau just being a minor update and modernization of the rules and wargear sections. Or Not.....
My Thoughts on what I would like to see for the Tau.
1) Fire Warriors Stay same price and statline but come with Bond Knife and Photon Grenades for Free. (Emp Grenades purchased for 2 points per model.)
2) All battlesuits become BS4.
3) Marker Lights become Rapid Fire
4) Drones become jetbike by themselves and move the same as units they are attached to (Fixes Sniper Drones)
4a).Give independent Drone Squadrons a machine intelligence rule that makes them fearless but still able to be pinned.
4b)Gundrones become a troop choice.
4c)Shield Drones Give 4+ Invulnerable 3" bubble againt shooting but do nothing for cc.
4d)Allow Sniper drones to operate up to 18" from controller or allow them to be handed of to units with drone controllers.
5) Kroot, Bring back merc rules(Leadership= Base Stubborn 6+1 Point leadership for upgrading for the unit. Ex: buying scout armour and Bola Snares makes them Ld 8 Stubborn.)
5a)Kroot get wargear upgrade options.(Example: A RPG upgrade called Jikita Rockets.(Range 24 S9 AP2 Heavy 1 or Bola Snares that can entagle Walkers and non vehicle units)
5b)Fix Krootox where the model is not handicapped by the riders toughness. If the rider gets shot another kroot in the squad would just hop on the beast.
5c)Fix terrain specific rule for feildcraft. A super adaptable race that cannot adapt to using city terrain is just stupid. Cameras catch coyotes and cougars in the metroplex all of the time, if animals can adapt then the kroot would, also.
6)Rework weapons for damage output that matches the Taus' fluff and needs For.example:
Fusion Blasters become range 18" for 15 points.
Seeker missles become S 8 AP 2 Heavy 1Shot, Lance(15 Pts/ea)
Seeker alternative that is napalm(S 5 AP 4 Heavy 1Shot, Ignores cover
Burst cannons either become assault 4 or get range 24"
Hammerhead Railgun becomes Heavy2 and sub munitions become S 6 AP 3 Heavy2 Small Blast(50 or 60 Points)
All Ion weapons gain AP1 on roll of a 6
7)Weapon options for D-Fish and Pirahna chin turrets.
8) Vespid to get reworked to units of 3-5 strong with the following stat-line. WS 3 BS 3 S 3 T 4 W 2 I 5 A 2 Ld6(Strain leader is 9) Sv 4+
Gain a poison sting attack that they may use in lieu of the two base attacks(Poison sting wounds on 4+)
Neutron Blaster becomes poisoned weapon: Range Template S- AP 3 Assault 1(Poison wounds on a 5+)
Stain leader may take drones
Unit may purchase grenades.
9) Remora Squadrons as Fast Attack Choice
10) Sky Ray Gains Tranport Ability/ May be Taken as a Dedicated by one unit.( Maybe sacrifice 1 point of front&side armour for this??)
11) Fix Ethereals. Make them outside the FOC and not a liability. Maybe make them the unlock for better auxilla units?
11a) BRING BACK AUN SHI
The Tau Don't need all of these to be competitive but they do need this much rework to make several viable builds as opposed to being a monobuild.
Later FF
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/06/11 20:07:07
Officially elevated by St. God of Yams to the rank of Scholar of the Church of the Children of the Eternal Turtle Pie at 11:42:36 PM 05/01/09
If they are too stupid to live, why make them?
In the immortal words of Socrates, I drank what??!
Tau-*****points(You really don't want to know) |
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