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As regards Carnifexes, option A is , option B is . Old One Eye is actually a Carnifex model, albeit, as you say, a bit of a wonky one.

Still gathering data, got another game in yesterday and have one coming up in about 30 minutes, so say tuned!

disdainful wrote:As regards Carnifexes, option A is , option B is . Old One Eye is actually a Carnifex model, albeit, as you say, a bit of a wonky one.

Still gathering data, got another game in yesterday and have one coming up in about 30 minutes, so say tuned!

So what's the ruling on my using Karchev as Bjorn? We're cool right?

You're wracking those games up! I heard the game with Davis went well for the Sunz. Those Nobz still doing the business on everyone?

You gonna be at the store tomorrow Mr. Miyagi? I have the day off and would like to burn through some matches. Or anyone else that's free...

Dok,

I got tomorrow off from work, I might be able to meet up at some point if you want. I may be playing a game at my house midday, so I'd either have to head up there in the evening time or you could always just come over to my house and play there too.

That's an interesting idea you have there. I have to do some stuff in the morning, but it would be fun to see you guys. I'll shoot you a text and let you know for sure.

Anyone up for a game on Saturday?

I will be in Saturday from open until about 6pm, hopefully playing games 8-10.

Got in game 6 today, against Daemons and took another win (6-0 in 6th! I'd like to thank my dice!) literally thanks to random game length! Hey, I was rolling 1s all game, so why not to see if the game ends!?

I'll be in the shop tomorrow, and should be able to get game 7 in after I get finished with the orders for the day.

It was amazing to me how bad I lost that game we played, even though most of your stuff was dead. KP are still silly...

Will this tourney have painting/sports scores as well as battle points? I will probably have a short list of questions about things too, mostly wargear changes and little stuff though. Really liking "out of the book" 6th so far, the multitude of little tweaks has made it into something much more exciting, dynamic, and fun while the bigger changes work to create an awesome mood for each battle as you see what Warlord powers and other things will be coming to bear. Good stuff, looking forward to crushing you all utterly... I mean not getting tabled in every game.

Painting and sports will be scored, and there will be a prize for best painted army. I'm still figuring out the other "6th-ed. Specific" awards though.

disdainful wrote:Painting and sports will be scored, and there will be a prize for best painted army. I'm still figuring out the other "6th-ed. Specific" awards though.

Most successful use of the new Wound Allocation system?

Most stuck in 5th edition?

Best use of allies?

Most rules disputes?

OverwatchCNC wrote:Best use of allies?

Andy and I will probably tie for the award with 3 broadsides and a Crisis Suit.

Played games 7 and 8 yesterday... couple of small ones. Took my first loss to Chuck's BT on Purge the Alien, draw against Necrons on Emperor's Will ( ).

New of interest: Forests specify that if you're shooting through them, the target gets a cover save. Other types of area terrain do not. So, if you're not in the crater, but behind, you don't get a save. There's interesting implications for ruins as well, particularly if they have a base. Ruins with bases count the base as area terrain. This means that models that are actually 25% obscured by a part of the ruin are entitled to the 4+ cover save, while models that are on the base but not obscured by any part of the actual ruined terrain model are only entitled to a 5+ cover save as detailed in the area terrain rules.


Guy on the left 5+, on the right 4+

Further, if a model is shooting at another model, and the line of fire crosses over area terrain that is not a forest, the model being shot at gets no cover save at all if it's not 25% obscured.

This also has some interesting implications for things like model placement. The question of the 'flying battlewagon' came up yesterday, and it's pretty clear that's no longer legit. Since area terrain ruins are no longer abstracted, and vehicles can't move on the upper levels of ruins, there's no more hanging big vehicles on the tops of ruined buildings with the "it's on the ground floor" rationale. If it can't actually fit on the ground floor, it can't go there.

I also finally found the rule that says you can't Look Out Sir! wounds from Challenges. There was some rabble over that for a minute.

I like the idea of a "Best Use of Allies" award, though I don't know quite how to quantify that... maybe whoever brings allies and gets the most kills with said allies? Most likely there will be a prize for most Secondary Objectives points earned (First Blood, Slay the Warlord, Linebreaker, etc.)

Most likely I will not announce the awards until the morning of, so that guys don't have the temptation to build lists that snipe for specific alt prizes.

disdainful wrote:
New of interest: Forests specify that if you're shooting through them, the target gets a cover save. Other types of area terrain do not. So, if you're not in the crater, but behind, you don't get a save. There's interesting implications for ruins as well, particularly if they have a base. Ruins with bases count the base as area terrain. This means that models that are actually 25% obscured by a part of the ruin are entitled to the 4+ cover save, while models that are on the base but not obscured by any part of the actual ruined terrain model are only entitled to a 5+ cover save as detailed in the area terrain rules.

Yeah, I noticed this myself and brought it up in a YMDC thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/458369.page

The only point of contention I still see is that wreckage/rubble area terrain mentions it is a 4+ save, which could easily be what the bottom floor of a ruin that has a base is considered.

Of course, if you read that thread you'll also see that it gets mentioned that the wreckage/rubble rules specify that models BEHIND wreckage/rubble get a 4+ save (as opposed to being IN the terrain, as the rules for impact craters do, for example). So would you play that wreckage/rubble area terrain only provides a 5+ cover save unless the models are actually 25% obscured behind some part of the wreckage/rubble?

Further, if a model is shooting at another model, and the line of fire crosses over area terrain that is not a forest, the model being shot at gets no cover save at all if it's not 25% obscured.

That's a very good catch...I hadn't noticed it, but it makes sense since really the main 'tall' area terrain types before would be forests and ruins and now that ruins are no longer just a generic area terrain it makes sense to specify that forests are the only ones that still provide cover saves when being fired over.

This also has some interesting implications for things like model placement. The question of the 'flying battlewagon' came up yesterday, and it's pretty clear that's no longer legit. Since area terrain ruins are no longer abstracted, and vehicles can't move on the upper levels of ruins, there's no more hanging big vehicles on the tops of ruined buildings with the "it's on the ground floor" rationale. If it can't actually fit on the ground floor, it can't go there.

I'd disagree with that assessment. The 'wobbly model syndrome' rule is still in the book (pg 11) and I see no reason why a vehicle wouldn't abide by this rule as well. So yes, the Battlewagon would 'count' as being on the ground floor of a ruin it was driving through, but if you have to place the model to the side of the ruin or up on the 2nd floor temporarily, that is still an acceptable way to remind yourself where the vehicle is supposed to be (on the ground floor).

yakface wrote:Of course, if you read that thread you'll also see that it gets mentioned that the wreckage/rubble rules specify that models BEHIND wreckage/rubble get a 4+ save (as opposed to being IN the terrain, as the rules for impact craters do, for example). So would you play that wreckage/rubble area terrain only provides a 5+ cover save unless the models are actually 25% obscured behind some part of the wreckage/rubble?

The text for Wreckage/Rubble says specifically that "If a model is in cover behind wreckage or rubble, it has a 4+ cover save". Since it specifies that you have to be 'in cover' behind the terrain, that says to me that you'd need to be 25% obscured. For dude-sized dudes on the ground it would likely mean that you would get the save no matter how far away you were, since LOS over the deck is a straight line and the terrain would get in the way. Once you start dealing with bigger models or models in elevated firing positions, then you might have situations where models behind said terrain were not necessarily in cover behind that terrain from the POV of the firing model.

yakface wrote:I'd disagree with that assessment. The 'wobbly model syndrome' rule is still in the book (pg 11) and I see no reason why a vehicle wouldn't abide by this rule as well. So yes, the Battlewagon would 'count' as being on the ground floor of a ruin it was driving through, but if you have to place the model to the side of the ruin or up on the 2nd floor temporarily, that is still an acceptable way to remind yourself where the vehicle is supposed to be (on the ground floor).

Fair. I actually hate the Wobbly Model allowances, because no one ever remembers quite where the model was supposed to go! As has been discussed, this edition of the game is far more individual-model-focused than previous editions, and anyone who's played enough Warmachine knows that mechanics that involve the moving of game pieces in play to accommodate difficult positioning are a minefield. Most people come correct to events with cut-outs of their vehicle footprints for denoting exploded vehicles, and those same accessories could be the answer, simply using them to keep track of a vehicle's position in a precarious or difficult spot. I use small medium and large 'stunt bases' in my WM games all the time to keep track of precise model placement when terrain or the models themselves would make things difficult to keep track of.

I really really hate flying battlewagons. As long as it's not doing a Noah's Ark after the flood on the third-story pinnacle of a ruin it doesn't give me too much of a rash, I guess. Not sure just how to handle this from the point of view of the event, but it's on the docket of "Stuff Travis Has To Figure Out Before Saturday"

After playing and watching a couple missions with the objectives placed after table sides I'm more confident that it's not legit for tournaments, especially if the event doesn't use mysterious objectives.

"Let's see what my two objectives in the back of my table edge do! They're both Grav-Wave generators?! Boss! What does yours do? Awww... it blows up every turn? Sorry man. Lunch is on me today."

Still not sure if I'd rather do objective placement before rolling for sides, or to go RAW with the requirement that the odd objective (if any) has to be placed in the no-man's-land between deployment zones. Not a superfan of dead center of the table; it's a little too arbitrary for my taste. Both seem like simple enough tweaks. Kinda leaning toward the first solution to be honest, since it is a time-tested method that basically has zero negative impact on the game and potentially a huge positive impact. We shall see. More games to come, so more table time experience to draw from.

In other news;

Finished game 9 today. Finally took a well-deserved loss to Daemons. Stupid dice. Apparently Brandon's stupid Chicken of Change made like 30 saves in a row. Jerk. Great game regardless, and even after blowing a (long, admittedly, but it was the Waaagh! turn, so...) charge that basically meant my Warboss and Nobz got swept up I still managed to only lose 7-4 on Purge the Alien. Starting to feel like clockwork at this point, though little stuff still pops up. Like I didn't realize that Move Through Cover auto-passes Dangerous Terrain, and since all Monstrous Creatures have MTC, no worries about DPs breaking an ankle when landing in the forest!

Looks like I have to bow out of this one. A work party with an open bar is callllllin me!

Dok wrote:Looks like I have to bow out of this one. A work party with an open bar is callllllin me!

That's cool, it just means you'll be that much more behind the curve on 6th than everyone else

Not that I will be that far ahead, only 3 games under my belt so far. I am hoping to get games 4 and 5 in Tuesday night, I need to practice with the Aegis Defense line

OverwatchCNC wrote:

Not that I will be that far ahead, only 3 games under my belt so far. I am hoping to get games 4 and 5 in Tuesday night, I need to practice with the Aegis Defense line

I have 3 games in also, and lots of little skirmish tests. I've got a game against my uncle on Thursday, I'm going to try and convince him to come to the tournament.

Hiding behind your defense line will not help you... mwuahahahahhahaha!

OverwatchCNC wrote:

Dok wrote:Looks like I have to bow out of this one. A work party with an open bar is callllllin me!

That's cool, it just means you'll be that much more behind the curve on 6th than everyone else

Not that I will be that far ahead, only 3 games under my belt so far. I am hoping to get games 4 and 5 in Tuesday night, I need to practice with the Aegis Defense line

I got three games in on friday. Beat up Brian and then lost to Yakface 2 times. And then spent the whole night throwing up. I think Yakface poisoned me to get an advantage.

A testament to his advancement through Painboy skool!

Dok wrote:

OverwatchCNC wrote:

Dok wrote:Looks like I have to bow out of this one. A work party with an open bar is callllllin me!

That's cool, it just means you'll be that much more behind the curve on 6th than everyone else

Not that I will be that far ahead, only 3 games under my belt so far. I am hoping to get games 4 and 5 in Tuesday night, I need to practice with the Aegis Defense line

I got three games in on friday. Beat up Brian and then lost to Yakface 2 times. And then spent the whole night throwing up. I think Yakface poisoned me to get an advantage.

That's very Ork of him. I approve.

He was probably a Nurgle carrier. Orks didn't get sick, but he managed to stick it on you.

"I also finally found the rule that says you can't Look Out Sir! wounds from Challenges."
True that, however...
Glorious Interventon (pg65) does allow for a second Character in the same combat to take the place of a Charater in a challenge AFTER the first round of combat is complete. The intervening character must pass an Initiative test, failing meaning he continues to fight the normal combat. Passing the "I" test the 2nd character fights the challenge while the original character fights in the normal combat.
Some interesting abuse here: A bunch of Nobs/Pallies can get in a fight with a challenge. After round 1 if the guy has a wound you can attempt to substitute a fresh (unwounded) model in his place. Continue substituting fresh guys every turn until you kill the offending Eternal Warrior.

Yeah, the "units of characters" are going to slow the game down tremendously.

Most of the challenges I've seen haven't lasted more than a single round, what with all the powerfists and claws running around.

And it's hardly a guarantee that a Nob is going to pass his Initiative test to intervene. That being said, units like Nobz and Wolf Guard have some interesting benefits, like every 6 to hit being a Precision Hit, and in-built protection from getting bogged in dangerous or annoying challenges, since anyone in the unit can accept/intervene.

Looking forward to games tomorrow. Been building some of the Battlefield Debris terrain pieces to start trying out.

Would anyone object to me proxing Necron flyers using croissants if I stick them on the appropriate bases? I'd buy the costco pack and share the left overs...

As the TO I'd have to say I'd prefer donuts with some appropriately-modeled bites taken out.

mortetvie wrote:Would anyone object to me proxing Necron flyers using croissants if I stick them on the appropriate bases? I'd buy the costco pack and share the left overs...

disdainful wrote:As the TO I'd have to say I'd prefer donuts with some appropriately-modeled bites taken out.

If you're serious, then yes . If not, see Dis' comment.

I suppose I could use a maple bar as a command barge. I could also stick pipe cleaners into donut holes and call them wraiths.


This is my WIP sofar, the bacon strip is supposed to be my Necron lord. What do you think of my color scheme? The blue plate is not part of the model BTW.

ROFL

Needs a flying base and you are good to go!