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the thing that annoys the hell out of me is this.

I bought a box of plastic space marines (1998 i believe), it was £10, I thought this was a fair price.... roll on 14 years later (yeah im old) the EXACT same box of marines (ok they added some more purity seals and what not) costs me £22.50... I mean its the same damn box, I feel sorry for the guard and ork players who went from the good 20/16 man sets to the 10 man ones for a ...price increase?????????

Horst wrote:I told a co worker about 40k today. He seemed to think it was cool. I showed him a few pictures of my models, again he thought it was cool.

Told him a single stormraven cost $82.50.

Zero interest from that point on.

This game is priced well beyond anyone who wants to start.

I'm in the same boat. I have 3 different friends who would love to start. An ork, a DE and a Necron. They were interested, they wanted in. They saw the prices and you could see the dissapointment in their eyes. They wanted in so badly. But at those prices it's just not feasable. Hell, we'd be ok with US/UK prices. And the amount of people I know who quit simply because they couldn't afford it anymore. People say 'oh you can play with the models you have' which is very true. But that gets boring. You always want to try new things, new models. and once you get bored of what you have, and can't afford to expand, you eventually go 'meh' and stop.
I haven't bought a thing other than a few trades from the swapshop and an ebay buy or 2 since the embargo. If wayland was able to sell to me they would have gotten at least $500, probably closer to $1000 if the embargo hadn't gone up. But I guess no money is better than money from a 3rd party. My last purchase was a land raider from Wayland. I could have bought 2 off wayland with money left over rather than walking down the street and buying it here. Hell, for $20 more I'd have gotten a 3rd one and that includes shipping. And with these price increases it only makes it worse. Unless GW smartens up I don't see they company seeing 2020.

Two friends of mine...been working on them for two years to get into the game with me. I've shared the BRB with them. They love the fluff, but they can't justify the cost to start playing. (These guys make good money, are really bright, and have the time, but they think the entry point costs and rule complexity of 40k are too high.)

This game is a nonstarter for most of my friends. GW can't live on my spontaneous purchases can it?

hello ebay.

Wardragoon:

.....(I will not insult I will not insult)

Heh.
Well, I was a tad harsh with the kid, but he deserved it. Make no mistake about it. I strongly disagree with the koolaid drinkers and fanboys in their continued support of the unsuportable (as an aside, I have NEVER had one ever try to justify GW's actions in regards to the '93 lead scare. That set the tone for how GW treats it's customers and they can't say anything to justify it...) But I do recognize that they have a right to their opinion on the matter. Even if one of them just said something like "I don't care about the prices. I think I get enough value for my money and that's the end of it" I could respect that. I would still think their opinion was dead wrong, but I could respect their view as legitimate. What irritates me is when the GW appologists say things they know are not true, use dishonest comparisons, or just out and out lie.

Plastic is made from petroleum

Yes it is.
But Petroleum prices fluxuate up and down from day to day and from year to year. GWs prices do not. Have you EVER heard of them lowering prices? Neither have I. Other companies do. To use Old Glory as an example again, a few years back there was a tin shortage and as a result OG raised their prices a bit. But when doing so, they made the promise that they would lower their prices again should the shortage disapear. Eventually the supply problems were corrected and OG lowered their prices again. GW had also raised their prices at the same time, citing the same reasons. Guess who's prices remained at the new level...until the next price increase of course. Just like they had with the '93 lead scare, GW cynically used a percieved crisis to raise prices. What is it that PoS Rahm Emanuel said a couple of years ago? "Never let a good crisis go to waste"?
In any event, have oil prices gone up 600% since 1990? No.

As to the rest of your post in regards to GW pricing themselves out of a market and how a price decrease would lead to greater sales, I fully agree.

Hello Ebay

You know it.
Unless you just HAVE to have the latest shiney toys on release day, the second hand market is the only way to go when it comes to GW. if you know how to strip miniatures and don't mind using last edition's figures, you can actually build most armies pretty cheaply.

TR

I don't really care at this point.

I'll buy this crap pretty much no matter how much it costs. I like to think of it in these terms:

1st. 40k models are a one time buy and done deal. What I buy today will always be able to be used. Even if the company goes under it doesn't stop me from playing with my friends in the current edition. I think 100 dollars for 10 chaos terminators is a great investment. I get to play as much as I want with them and I get to paint and customize them any way I want.

I am also supporting the company that brought 40k into my life. I love 40k. I love the miniatures I love the rules I love painting I love playing with my pals and I love the fluff. This is a great game. It will always be. But it is just that. A game. Something to get your mind off of other things you are dealing with and become the commander of an army set in our galaxy 38,000 years from now. Great stuff. Maybe you would rather do something for your entertainment that is cheaper, and that's your right. But I prefer this.

I love this game. And I'll pay whatever they want to (basically) to continue to use their great product.

Ignatius wrote:I don't really care at this point.

I'll buy this crap pretty much no matter how much it costs. I like to think of it in these terms:

1st. 40k models are a one time buy and done deal. What I buy today will always be able to be used. Even if the company goes under it doesn't stop me from playing with my friends in the current edition. I think 100 dollars for 10 chaos terminators is a great investment. I get to play as much as I want with them and I get to paint and customize them any way I want.

I am also supporting the company that brought 40k into my life. I love 40k. I love the miniatures I love the rules I love painting I love playing with my pals and I love the fluff. This is a great game. It will always be. But it is just that. A game. Something to get your mind off of other things you are dealing with and become the commander of an army set in our galaxy 38,000 years from now. Great stuff. Maybe you would rather do something for your entertainment that is cheaper, and that's your right. But I prefer this.

I love this game. And I'll pay whatever they want to (basically) to continue to use their great product.

This is the reason GW thinks it's okay to jack up prices.

Great White wrote:

Ignatius wrote:I don't really care at this point.

I'll buy this crap pretty much no matter how much it costs. I like to think of it in these terms:

1st. 40k models are a one time buy and done deal. What I buy today will always be able to be used. Even if the company goes under it doesn't stop me from playing with my friends in the current edition. I think 100 dollars for 10 chaos terminators is a great investment. I get to play as much as I want with them and I get to paint and customize them any way I want.

I am also supporting the company that brought 40k into my life. I love 40k. I love the miniatures I love the rules I love painting I love playing with my pals and I love the fluff. This is a great game. It will always be. But it is just that. A game. Something to get your mind off of other things you are dealing with and become the commander of an army set in our galaxy 38,000 years from now. Great stuff. Maybe you would rather do something for your entertainment that is cheaper, and that's your right. But I prefer this.

I love this game. And I'll pay whatever they want to (basically) to continue to use their great product.

This is the reason GW thinks it's okay to jack up prices.

Quite frankly, I don't care.

God forbid someone not agree with everyone else. I'm sorry I don't prescribe to the same ideas as you all.

Well, the idea of this thread is to bitch, and with you here, the bitchyness is hanging in the balance.

Great White wrote:Well, the idea of this thread is to bitch, and with you here, the bitchyness is hanging in the balance.

You're right. I should have known better than to post something like this on this thread.

Trench-Raider wrote:Wardragoon:

.....(I will not insult I will not insult)

Heh.
Well, I was a tad harsh with the kid, but he deserved it. Make no mistake about it. I strongly disagree with the koolaid drinkers and fanboys in their continued support of the unsuportable (as an aside, I have NEVER had one ever try to justify GW's actions in regards to the '93 lead scare. That set the tone for how GW treats it's customers and they can't say anything to justify it...) But I do recognize that they have a right to their opinion on the matter. Even if one of them just said something like "I don't care about the prices. I think I get enough value for my money and that's the end of it" I could respect that. I would still think their opinion was dead wrong, but I could respect their view as legitimate. What irritates me is when the GW appologists say things they know are not true, use dishonest comparisons, or just out and out lie.

Plastic is made from petroleum

Yes it is.
But Petroleum prices fluxuate up and down from day to day and from year to year. GWs prices do not. Have you EVER heard of them lowering prices? Neither have I. Other companies do. To use Old Glory as an example again, a few years back there was a tin shortage and as a result OG raised their prices a bit. But when doing so, they made the promise that they would lower their prices again should the shortage disapear. Eventually the supply problems were corrected and OG lowered their prices again. GW had also raised their prices at the same time, citing the same reasons. Guess who's prices remained at the new level...until the next price increase of course. Just like they had with the '93 lead scare, GW cynically used a percieved crisis to raise prices. What is it that PoS Rahm Emanuel said a couple of years ago? "Never let a good crisis go to waste"?
In any event, have oil prices gone up 600% since 1990? No.

As to the rest of your post in regards to GW pricing themselves out of a market and how a price decrease would lead to greater sales, I fully agree.
.

TR

While yes Petroleum prices do go up and down, they are still higher than they were in the mid 90s. And I do agree that GW is doing the whole "Never Let a Good Crisis go to waste" approach to it...But who isnt, gas companies are making record profits while claiming they are receiving less oil and need the money just to stay afloat. But I digress considering this isn't a proper forum for nongaming economics.


EDIT: I am aware I am guilty of this as well as some others, lets try to keep this polite, we don't want the modquisition killing the thread

Ailaros wrote:In 1987, space marines were £0.75 apiece. The price for a litre of petrol in 1987 was £0.387. In 2012, the price of a space marine is £2.30 apiece. The price of a litre of petrol as of this month is £1.338.

The cost of a space marine has increased just about 200%, while the price of petrol has increased 245%. During that same time period the price of gold has increased just slightly less than that (194%), while the price of a pound of bacon has nearly quadrupled (increase of 293%). The price of ground beef has gone up 83% in the last three years alone, much less the last 25.

You are not honestly trying to make that relation are you?

One of them is a luxury product while the other may as well be a necessity due to the reliance of most countries' infrastructure. Though both seem to be inelastic at least the reasons for fuel to be so are much clearer. Fuel could have increased 300-500% in that time, the only real thing holding it back is simply how much income the members of that economy have to throw away. Stuff like companies that require trucks to ship resources and ships/planes to trade between countries rely entirely upon fuel. Thus it could be any price and still sell. The only reason it probably hasn't is so that the public can afford to do so and thus bring in a bigger profit in total than having only a few sole companies being able to afford such a depended upon resource.

It would have made more sense to compare them to another product that is actually within their same category.

Horst wrote:I told a co worker about 40k today. He seemed to think it was cool. I showed him a few pictures of my models, again he thought it was cool.

Told him a single stormraven cost $82.50.

Zero interest from that point on.

This game is priced well beyond anyone who wants to start.

Exactly the same as my partner. "oh imperial guard look awesome, i wanna play!" then sees the prices and is like 'nahhhhh'

The business these guys are losing coz they're so bloody greedy is horrific.

Dragonzord wrote:

Horst wrote:I told a co worker about 40k today. He seemed to think it was cool. I showed him a few pictures of my models, again he thought it was cool.

Told him a single stormraven cost $82.50.

Zero interest from that point on.

This game is priced well beyond anyone who wants to start.

Exactly the same as my partner. "oh imperial guard look awesome, i wanna play!" then sees the prices and is like 'nahhhhh'

The business these guys are losing coz they're so bloody greedy is horrific.

Saddly, I have several friends in the same boat, a friend of mine really wanted to play Daemons, but upon seeing the price for units he lost almost all interest and only plays off loaner marines.

Go to ebay and go to the discounted warhammer 40k store there. There are actually multiple ones, I got 4 GK terminators boxes for $120

hi guys, anyone thats still buying from GW. i have just seen Rhinos are £22.50.....

if you want a Rhino get the "Sisters of Battle Immolator" - its £22.50 and you can sell all the SOB bits from it, on Ebay.

My brother did this, he got £9 from bits. his Rhino cost him £13.50....

Thank me later

There's also the Razorback kit. Well at least in some places like here where it costs the same as the Rhino for some reason.

Ailaros, that has to be the most biased post I have ever seen re. those models you posted! Although I agree most of the models have improved over time, using something that looks like it has been painted with boxing gloves and chalk is never going to sit well alongside a studio painted picture.

Horst wrote:I told a co worker about 40k today. He seemed to think it was cool. I showed him a few pictures of my models, again he thought it was cool.

Told him a single stormraven cost $82.50.

Zero interest from that point on.

This game is priced well beyond anyone who wants to start.

I agree completely, and I've found myself in the same boat. A friend of mine, with no knowledge at all of wargaming beyond having played 15 years or so again when he was a kid, went into GW to buy a troll as a small birthday present for a friend who had also stopped playing when they were kids. He said he had to practically stop himself from laughing when the store attendant showed him how much money it was.

And the old "well other hobbies are more expensive" line? Where do you stop with it? Right now it's being compared with paragliding, shooting/paintball, souping up cars etc. The thing to point out that 20 years or so ago when I started with wargaming/miniatures, it was a cheaper alternative to buying computer consoles, games and the like, perhaps similar to a bunch of D&D books. Nowadays the relative prices have rocketed right past it - and where do you stop? In another 15 years will we be saying - my other hobby, buying a gaming PC bi-yearly, or hunting humans illegally on the savannah is much cheaper?

Here's the quote I've got to dust off every time someone complains about GW price hikes...

OK, I have one as well..

In light of what I have written above, I think it's only fair to compare GW to the prices of other games within the same industry. So you have the likes of Warmachine/Hordes, Infinity/Malifaux, Dust Tactics etc. There is a long list, but the case in each is that GW's games are by far the most expensive, if you want to collect and play as the maker intended. Yes, of course there is nothing to stop you buying 10 Marines and then spending a couple of months really making them look good (although I would argue there are other miniature lines that would offer far more satisfaction to anyone of an artistic bent), but that's no good for any kid (or otherwise) picking up a copy of WD for the first time, and seeing massive armies of thousands of points worth of miniatures arrayed on the official (again, expensive) terrain.

I first got into games as a child - yes of course the occasional birthday/Xmas present, but you could also buy vehicles and the odd blister pack with a couple of weeks pocket money. And those models could be used more quickly in the games, as the model count was so much lower. Although they came later, the other skirmish type games such as Necromunda, Mordheim, Bloodbowl and the like also allowed new gamers to be bitten by the 'bug' and start a lifelong obsession with tabletop gaming. None of this is the case now, some of the finest games GW has ever produced are sat unsupported in small corner of the website, their play banned in stores, because they allow kids to play without their parents spending hundreds of pounds on starter sets, paints, dice, codecies/army books, terrain, modelling tools... I could go on.
I would argue that such a move by GW is self defeating, and for each price increase for the entry level of the game moves their games further and further away from the average, middle class customer which has served as the major demographic for the company over the past twenty years.

But in any case I think the proof is in the pudding. GW's approach to pricing has allowed new games to muscle in on the market. Local gaming stores, damaged by GW in the 90's with their tactics of denying non-GW stores new releases and favouring their own, have started to make a comeback. And these stores are giving less and less shelf space to GW games. And why is this the case? A parent walking into the store, who has no knowledge of the industry, will look at the various games equally. They will see 'miniatures' and 'paints', and on summing up the totals will see that pretty much every other game is orders of magnitude cheaper than the games that GW offers. With every year that GW continues to put up prices, completely ignorant of the other companies within the industry, this trend will continue. For Australians this will be exacerbated, as most other games are available at their Europe/US equivalent prices.

I write all of this but at the same time think it is such a shame that the whole price issue is continuing to go on. To be honest, it's endemic to company's which have had the lions share of the market for a long time, and have become lazy and fat sitting at the top of it. When Rick Priestly left GW a couple of years ago, he said that there was no acknowledgement at all from the upper brass that there was any competition at all, and I really think this must change for the long term health of the company. I would love to see GW fight back a little - perhaps freeze prices for a year, or introduce some exciting new games/ideas, and let their R&D guys flex their imaginations, rather than just trotting out the same stuff year after year. Dreadfleet, for all of it's foibles, with a start in this direction and I hope GW can continue with something similar in the future.

All this awesome feedback to GW, that will just go ignored...

I wish companies werent like this, but it seems the players want the company to succeed, and be more accessable than the people running the company do..

I agree with you guys, i know a few Friends and Family that love the models and the idear. but even to get 1000 points in any army + codex + Rulebook is well over £200.

as i am sure most people here will use the sites with 25-30% off GW models or ebay.

what i would like to point out is them companys are still making a profit with 30% off. how much are they getting them from GW? how much are we being ripped off?

the game is good, GW have gotten greedy. and Finecast dont even get me started on that crap!

Rant over.

these new units... i went through some of them and compared the US prices to the au prices (well the ork ones anyway) and these made me lol..

Kommandos: AU price - $72. US price - $45
Cannons: AU price - $50. US price - 29.75
Mega-nobz: AU price - $39. US price: 22.25

And yet, even though those units are massivly different in price, we have things like this.

Crusaders: AU price $18. US price - 16.50
Servitors: Au price - $18. US price - 1650
DE prisoners: AU price - $14. US price $13.25

I'd love to know why things like ork meganobs get a $16.25 price increase, or the cannons getting a $20.25 price increase, and yet the 'less important' units getting less than $2?

Wouldnt it make sense to have it be a set % increase, instead of just random numbers?

Also, just for lols.
Razorwing flock.. US price: $16.50 (same as the crusaders and servitors), Au price $28... ($10 more than the crusaders and servitors)

wut.

Edit: At the time of posting this, the exchange rate it 1.00 USD = 0.977613 AUD

Dragonzord wrote:these new units... i went through some of them and compared the US prices to the au prices (well the ork ones anyway) and these made me lol..

Kommandos: AU price - $72. US price - $45
Cannons: AU price - $50. US price - 29.75
Mega-nobz: AU price - $39. US price: 22.25

And yet, even though those units are massivly different in price, we have things like this.

Crusaders: AU price $18. US price - 16.50
Servitors: Au price - $18. US price - 1650
DE prisoners: AU price - $14. US price $13.25

I'd love to know why things like ork meganobs get a $16.25 price increase, or the cannons getting a $20.25 price increase, and yet the 'less important' units getting less than $2?

Wouldnt it make sense to have it be a set % increase, instead of just random numbers?

Also, just for lols.
Razorwing flock.. US price: $16.50 (same as the crusaders and servitors), Au price $28... ($10 more than the crusaders and servitors)

wut.

Edit: At the time of posting this, the exchange rate it 1.00 USD = 0.977613 AUD

If only shipping to australia was reasonable, because I would think that would be a great way to make money, sell right in between the US and AU price

shipping isnt all that bad tbh. Ive got 3 warbiker boxes coming from an ebay seller for $20 postage and 30.93 buy price

(thats $50.93 total... and in stores here the bikers are $62)

So so stupid. I wish i had an american mate that i could send money to and get stuff shipped here, especially the paints.

$3 for paints in the US... $6 here :/

Edit: only problem with Ebay, is that they only sell the 'popular' models... so you dont get the full selection :/

Dragonzord wrote:shipping isnt all that bad tbh. Ive got 3 warbiker boxes coming from an ebay seller for $20 postage and 30.93 buy price

(thats $50.93 total... and in stores here the bikers are $62)

So so stupid. I wish i had an american mate that i could send money to and get stuff shipped here, especially the paints.

$3 for paints in the US... $6 here :/

Edit: only problem with Ebay, is that they only sell the 'popular' models... so you dont get the full selection :/

No kidding, especially if you had a friend that actually sold GW as well. If I had a decent job I would try getting the business stuff from GW

Yeah you'd definatly make alot of money from us australians!

Even i was considering buying alot of US priced stuff on ebay, then selling it in AU at a profit at the local markets...

lol... I know its bad, but I just dropped $170 at my LGS today on more 40k stuff. Its overpriced, but... I can't help it. ($25 store credit from tournament + 10% discount helped me swallow it)

It's likely one of the reasons we got the embargo anyway.

Dragonzord wrote:Yeah you'd definatly make alot of money from us australians!

Even i was considering buying alot of US priced stuff on ebay, then selling it in AU at a profit at the local markets...

Ya, I buy my renaissance festival stuff from europe, good example.
Pilum in the US 400$
Pilum from Germany 100+30$ shipping

It seems like people are ignorant of the fact that it is possible to order stuff from overseas

n0t_u wrote:It's likely one of the reasons we got the embargo anyway.

maybe so But if there was a fair price in the first place we'd have not ordered from overseas anyway! Now we're forced to if we wanna pay less

Just seems that GW put the embargo there was out of spite. Isnt getting 60% of the money from buying overseas, better than 0%?

They really think in the age of the internet that people arent just going to ignore their embargo anyway and find ways around it?

Just glad I bought most of this stuff years ago.