Bharring wrote:
I was really hoping they'd fix the GUO calling a seargent a coward. I kinda wish that worked like Fantasy.

So is the only change now that the GUO pastes the squad even if the Sarge steps up, but any survivors can't strike back?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The problem with not challenging the DP is that the DP can challenge the sarge and now paste the entire squad anyways, right? Meaning either Sarge doesn't attack, and his squad fights without him, or Sarge dies before swinging, and the squad dies without being able to fight?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Note that challenges like that one arent as bad as you think.

pg103

Outside Forces:
Whilst the challenge is ongoing, other models locked in the combat can only allocate Wounds to the models involved in the challenge after all other enemy models that are locked in that combat (if any) have been removed as casualties, even if the models fighting in a challenge are the closest models.

Basically meaning the big bad solo characters guarantee they can smack your pitiful sarge, but other than that the fight is normal since the unit has nothing else to swing at. Means the cheerleading is gone too, but big flippin deal lol.
Oh, and if the Sarge or other such character has any chance of surviving the attacks, but his unit doesnt, he can be a sponge for the unit. 5++ vs no save whatsoever, you might negate a couple before they spill out to the unit.

 Locclo wrote:
There are some big changes, some little changes. Just a few off the top of my head:

1. The Psychic Phase now replaces...well, taking psychic tests. Basically, you get a pool of dice and manifest powers by rolling any number of dice you want from the pool, and if enough dice come up 4 or higher to equal or exceed the warp charge cost of the test you're taking, it goes off. Obviously there's more to it, but that's the gist.

2. Jink is no longer a flat 5+ save for moving, it now works exactly how evasion works for fliers. During the opponent's shooting phase, after a weapon has been fired but before wounds have been rolled, the unit with Jink can choose to use it or not, and if they do, they get a 4+ (yes, 4+) cover save, but they fire snap shots only in the next phase.

3. Flying Monstrous Creatures have taken a hit as well, you can no longer assault on the turn you change flight modes. Also, models need only take a single grounding test at the end of the Shooting phase, rather than every time they get shot.

4. Shooting works slightly differently now. When you select a unit to shoot, you then choose one of its weapons to shoot, then roll to hit, wound, etc. for every model with that weapon that is going to fire that weapon (since models can obviously only fire one gun per turn, mostly). Then you move onto the next weapon, until everything has fired.

5. Assaulting through terrain is different, you now roll 2d6 and subtract 2 from the distance, rather than rolling 3 and picking the two lowest.

6. Independent characters can no longer join Monstrous Creatures (so no more Buffmander + Riptide units).

7. Terrain rules have changed, in that they've removed the ridiculous terrain density thing. The book basically says to set the board up in such a way that both players are happy with it. In addition, you now deploy fortifications with your army, not when you put terrain on the board, meaning that you can actually safely put down your Defense Line without having the opposing player plop giant walls in front of it.

8. Lists can now be Battle-forged or Unbound; Battle-forged means that it comes from one army, Unbound lets you throw the FOC out the window and play whatever you want within the points limit. Also, Battle-forged lists can have any number of detachments at any points level.

9. The book has 6 new missions (Maelstrom of War) that utilize Tactical Objectives instead of the normal objectives. GW sells a deck of cards that lists them so you can just draw cards and use them as your objectives, but there's also a chart that you can roll on to generate them. They range from killing things in assault, taking specific objectives, getting into the enemy's deployment zone, all kinds of things. A full half of them are "Control X Objective," however. To make these objectives a little less insane to accomplish, since not every codex has troops that can fly across the board at a moment's notice, all models are scoring, with the exception of anything that is flying (dropping down to gliding/hovering makes them scoring again, however).

10. This is why Battle-forged and Unbound isn't as ridiculous as you might think: Troops from Battle-forged lists have the "Objective Secured" special rule, which means that nothing short of another Battle-forged Troops unit can contest the objective they're sitting on.

11. The Allies Matrix was changed a bit, the main thing to note is that alliances across the board have dropped. The majority of alliances are now either desperate or "Come the Apocalypse," with a few sprinklings of Allies of Convenience and Battle Brothers.

12. In addition to point 11, a "Come the Apocalypse" alliance no longer forbids allies, it simply makes it so that units from the two armies may not deploy within 12" of each other. Additionally, they have to deal with the "One Eye Open" rule that Desperate Allies have to deal with.

13. Not really a change (although I'm sure the rules HAVE changed a little), the main rule book now includes the rules for units that were previously Apoc/Escalation-only, like Gargantuan Creatures and Super-heavy Vehicles.

I'm sure there are plenty more, but those are the immediate ones that I can think of.

Edit: Oh, and GW has made it an official rule that you must agree with your opponent what is allowed in a list and what isn't allowed.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Note that challenges like that one arent as bad as you think.

pg103

Outside Forces:
Whilst the challenge is ongoing, other models locked in the combat can only allocate Wounds to the models involved in the challenge after all other enemy models that are locked in that combat (if any) have been removed as casualties, even if the models fighting in a challenge are the closest models.

Basically meaning the big bad solo characters guarantee they can smack your pitiful sarge, but other than that the fight is normal since the unit has nothing else to swing at. Means the cheerleading is gone too, but big flippin deal lol.
Oh, and if the Sarge or other such character has any chance of surviving the attacks, but his unit doesnt, he can be a sponge for the unit. 5++ vs no save whatsoever, you might negate a couple before they spill out to the unit.

\

wounds yes, BUT you cant roll to hit a model in a challenge. so if there was leftovers on a squad that got krumped then it can carry over, but you cant just roll to hit

 Thud wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Thud wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
am i reading skyfire right... it looks like it got the ass.

it no longer has the exception for where you have Skyfire AND interceptor and can shoot at ANYTHING, now skyfire is JUST the flyers etc and snap shots on anything else..

Looks like.

Is anything besides the gun emplacements affected though?

all Skyfire units, its not an option to turn on and off...

It is for Tau, and Flyers, and FMCs.

The new SM tanks never had Interceptor anyway, or IG Hydras for that matter.

I can't think of anyone, except gun emplacements, that are affected.

 invisiblade wrote:
And they shall know no fear - no longer move 9" on regroup.

Vehicles exploding no longer provides cover, and +1 str for models caught in the blast.

 wuestenfux wrote:
How about D weapons? No changes being made?

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How about D weapons? No changes being made?

Str D is interesting. Crazy nasty still compared to other weapons but not auto-obliterate like usual lol.

After rolling to hit, you roll a D6 for the result. Roll of a 1, nothing happens. Roll of a 2-5 the vehicle is Penn'd and suffers D3 hullpoints instead of one while in units a model suffers D3 auto wounds instead of one. A roll of 6 is NOT instant death anymore, but might as well be lol vehicles suffer D6+6 hullpoints and roll on the pen table and any models hit suffer D6+6 wounds. In this case, no saves of any kind are allowed including invul.

two interesting things here. remember Swarms taking double wounds from blasts, being FAQ'd saying it doesnt double the wound pool but every wound causes 2 wounds? This is worded the same way imo as Swarms was pre-faq, leading me to believe if you pass a cover/invul save on the 2-5 roll you pass the attack PERIOD whether it caused 3 wounds or 1, since it says "model" not unit.
While the loophole in FNP not being a save still seems to exist, the wording on the FNP rule makes it impossible to dodge these attacks as FNP says it cannot be taken against destroyer weapons. Sadface lol would be hilarious to have my nobs take a wound that would cause D6+6 and i FNP'd it

Oo, actually on the note of FNP it specifically says "can be used on attacks that state no saves of any kind are allowed" haha its no longer a loophole its intended! though not against StrD obviously or ID attacks.

 TheKbob wrote:
Hey, all... was Hit and Run fixed or does it still only take one model in the unit to dispense it to ALL of the unit?

If it still works, St. Celestine just became a good friend to all the Imperium by dispensing that skill for cheap(er).

RivenSkull wrote:


I'm really glad my Sentry Pylons have 3 weapon options. The Gauss Exterminator is both Interceptor and Skyfire, and is now useless for part of it's intended use of long range anti-tank/MC and AA. Now that the Exterminator is the worst gun, I'd be pretty annoyed if they turned into a waste of money.

You make a save against each wound. 1 Save will not negate all d3 wounds.

 raiden wrote:
no one likes the tau. Not even the tau like the tau.

 jasper76 wrote:
It seems to me that you can no longer take an Allied Detatchment from a Codex Supplement. It would have to be its own FOC, because they equated Supllements as the same Faction as the parent Codex (p 126), and you can't have an Allied Detachment from the same faction as your Primary Detachment (p 122).

 Vineheart01 wrote:

You make a save against each wound. 1 Save will not negate all d3 wounds.

But heres the thing, its worded as "The model suffers a hit that wounds automatically and causes it to lose D3 wounds instead of 1."

 Locclo wrote:
There are some big changes, some little changes. Just a few off the top of my head:

4. Shooting works slightly differently now. When you select a unit to shoot, you then choose one of its weapons to shoot, then roll to hit, wound, etc. for every model with that weapon that is going to fire that weapon (since models can obviously only fire one gun per turn, mostly). Then you move onto the next weapon, until everything has fired..

basherthe2nd wrote:
Am i reading it right that you can now charge from outflank? Rules say no charge from infiltrate, but can find nothing to stop outflank charges???

 Vineheart01 wrote:

You make a save against each wound. 1 Save will not negate all d3 wounds.

But heres the thing, its worded as "The model suffers a hit that wounds automatically and causes it to lose D3 wounds instead of 1."

That means its still causing a single "wound", meaning one save, but a failed save of said wound is more significant than normal since this wound removes D3 instead of 1.
Which is how the Swarms were FAQ'd to explain it better, since it was worded the exact same way in the previous book and people took it as hitting a swarm with a blast doubles the wound pool...no it causes every unsaved wound to hurt them twice rather than once.

basherthe2nd wrote:
Am i reading it right that you can now charge from outflank? Rules say no charge from infiltrate, but can find nothing to stop outflank charges???

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yea still pissed about that change in 6th, i was hoping they'd revert the Infiltrate and Outflank assaults in 7th because its insanely dumb to render many, many units completely and utterly useless without a point cut to compensate for virtually NEVER getting to do what theyre intended to do - assault without traversing the entire table. Most if not all of them are pretty squishy since they were made to assault before you could hit them....not anymore.

Also Str D needed nerfs if they were going to implement it into normal 40k, which they did. The original rule for Str D is auto wound, ignore all saves, instant death. Against models immune to ID it caused 3 wounds, of course none being save-able by any means.

Least you cant FNP the D weapon wounds. Its Str10 for ID purposes, but FNP says it cannot work against destroyer weapons anyway. For some reason they really, really didnt want to straight up give it Instant Death anymore, even though it might as well have it lol

 Xerics wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yea still pissed about that change in 6th, i was hoping they'd revert the Infiltrate and Outflank assaults in 7th because its insanely dumb to render many, many units completely and utterly useless without a point cut to compensate for virtually NEVER getting to do what theyre intended to do - assault without traversing the entire table. Most if not all of them are pretty squishy since they were made to assault before you could hit them....not anymore.

Also Str D needed nerfs if they were going to implement it into normal 40k, which they did. The original rule for Str D is auto wound, ignore all saves, instant death. Against models immune to ID it caused 3 wounds, of course none being save-able by any means.

Least you cant FNP the D weapon wounds. Its Str10 for ID purposes, but FNP says it cannot work against destroyer weapons anyway. For some reason they really, really didnt want to straight up give it Instant Death anymore, even though it might as well have it lol

im glad you cant assault out of reserves, infiltrate, and outflank. I get enough outflanking meltas and bolters already to last me a lifetime the last thing I need are wolves coming out and assaulting me after they are done shooting me up.

 ntdars wrote:
Were there any changes to Overwatch or Snap Shots? Do you still make them at BS1 or is it -2BS?

 Kain wrote:

 ntdars wrote:
Were there any changes to Overwatch or Snap Shots? Do you still make them at BS1 or is it -2BS?

Still BS1.