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so what has changed with the 7th edition rules if you don't mind me asking?

Because I haven't got the new rule book and not a real tourney player as well

There are some big changes, some little changes. Just a few off the top of my head:

1. The Psychic Phase now replaces...well, taking psychic tests. Basically, you get a pool of dice and manifest powers by rolling any number of dice you want from the pool, and if enough dice come up 4 or higher to equal or exceed the warp charge cost of the test you're taking, it goes off. Obviously there's more to it, but that's the gist.

2. Jink is no longer a flat 5+ save for moving, it now works exactly how evasion works for fliers. During the opponent's shooting phase, after a weapon has been fired but before wounds have been rolled, the unit with Jink can choose to use it or not, and if they do, they get a 4+ (yes, 4+) cover save, but they fire snap shots only in the next phase.

3. Flying Monstrous Creatures have taken a hit as well, you can no longer assault on the turn you change flight modes. Also, models need only take a single grounding test at the end of the Shooting phase, rather than every time they get shot.

4. Shooting works slightly differently now. When you select a unit to shoot, you then choose one of its weapons to shoot, then roll to hit, wound, etc. for every model with that weapon that is going to fire that weapon (since models can obviously only fire one gun per turn, mostly). Then you move onto the next weapon, until everything has fired.

5. Assaulting through terrain is different, you now roll 2d6 and subtract 2 from the distance, rather than rolling 3 and picking the two lowest.

6. Independent characters can no longer join Monstrous Creatures (so no more Buffmander + Riptide units).

7. Terrain rules have changed, in that they've removed the ridiculous terrain density thing. The book basically says to set the board up in such a way that both players are happy with it. In addition, you now deploy fortifications with your army, not when you put terrain on the board, meaning that you can actually safely put down your Defense Line without having the opposing player plop giant walls in front of it.

8. Lists can now be Battle-forged or Unbound; Battle-forged means that it comes from one army, Unbound lets you throw the FOC out the window and play whatever you want within the points limit. Also, Battle-forged lists can have any number of detachments at any points level.

9. The book has 6 new missions (Maelstrom of War) that utilize Tactical Objectives instead of the normal objectives. GW sells a deck of cards that lists them so you can just draw cards and use them as your objectives, but there's also a chart that you can roll on to generate them. They range from killing things in assault, taking specific objectives, getting into the enemy's deployment zone, all kinds of things. A full half of them are "Control X Objective," however. To make these objectives a little less insane to accomplish, since not every codex has troops that can fly across the board at a moment's notice, all models are scoring, with the exception of anything that is flying (dropping down to gliding/hovering makes them scoring again, however).

10. This is why Battle-forged and Unbound isn't as ridiculous as you might think: Troops from Battle-forged lists have the "Objective Secured" special rule, which means that nothing short of another Battle-forged Troops unit can contest the objective they're sitting on.

11. The Allies Matrix was changed a bit, the main thing to note is that alliances across the board have dropped. The majority of alliances are now either desperate or "Come the Apocalypse," with a few sprinklings of Allies of Convenience and Battle Brothers.

12. In addition to point 11, a "Come the Apocalypse" alliance no longer forbids allies, it simply makes it so that units from the two armies may not deploy within 12" of each other. Additionally, they have to deal with the "One Eye Open" rule that Desperate Allies have to deal with.

13. Not really a change (although I'm sure the rules HAVE changed a little), the main rule book now includes the rules for units that were previously Apoc/Escalation-only, like Gargantuan Creatures and Super-heavy Vehicles.

I'm sure there are plenty more, but those are the immediate ones that I can think of.

Edit: Oh, and GW has made it an official rule that you must agree with your opponent what is allowed in a list and what isn't allowed.

Allies pretty much favors Imperial armies now, as it says "Imperial are Battlebrothers with Imperial" and on the side it lists every single loyalist army. Before, some of them werent BB but convenience.

I have no quarry with allies, but Battlebrothers is fething stupid and it breaks the game. Now really only Eldar and Imperial armies have access to it. Not sure what Eld/Deld could bring thats that gamebreaking but almost every imperial army has some special character that enables some nasty tactic in another imperial army.

Also my Tau are Desperate Allies with almost everyone...which is weird and sucks lol

no one likes the tau. Not even the tau like the tau.

So since there is no direct reference to Area terrain anymore, do we just assume the new clarification of being IN cover refers to Area, wile BEHIND refers to the 25% obscured? Or is the only thing you can be IN as referenced is Ruins?

I no know...

 Locclo wrote:

2. Jink is no longer a flat 5+ save for moving, it now works exactly how evasion works for fliers. During the opponent's shooting phase, after a weapon has been fired but before wounds have been rolled, the unit with Jink can choose to use it or not, and if they do, they get a 4+ (yes, 4+) cover save, but they fire snap shots only in the next phase.

Please re-read the Jink special rule on page 167. You determine if you're going to jink as soon as you're nominated as a target for a shooting attack, not after to-hit rolls have been made.

Interesting changes, the new jink rule makes hover vehicles much less obnoxious. As a Tau player with lots of hover vehicles that does kinda suck, but I suppose it makes more sense than, "I moved 1 inch, therefore my save is awesome"

Also is the Psychic Phase before shooting and after movement still?

I don't personally see the point in the shooting changes, I suppose it means you can unload with bolter fire into the guys in front then save your melta shot for the guy with special weapons or the leutenant. But with Look Out Sir, couldn't the enemy simply re-allocate those wounds anyway? (Obviously it's based on a die roll so it's not guarenteed but w/e)

@Locclo: thank you very much kind sir.

4. Shooting works slightly differently now. When you select a unit to shoot, you then choose one of its weapons to shoot, then roll to hit, wound, etc. for every model with that weapon that is going to fire that weapon (since models can obviously only fire one gun per turn, mostly). Then you move onto the next weapon, until everything has fired.

I don´t see the point here. Rolling everything together was done to get wounds quicker. Wound allocation was the problem, not this. Imagine you have 30 bolter wounds over a unit with 9 3+ save models behind a single 2+ model with Look Out Sir!. That was the problem to be fixed.

The book basically says to set the board up in such a way that both players are happy with it.

Lol what? Good luck with that.

Oh, and GW has made it an official rule that you must agree with your opponent what is allowed in a list and what isn't allowed.

That´s good. It shouldn´t be necessary, but I hope it will end some silly discussions.

If I may ask:
1) Any changes to Look Out Sir?
2) Any changes to how you shoot at flyers?

We played a game yesterday. Terrain set up was super easy, but we also mimicked how a typical terrain board would be laid out. However, to be fair, I thought 6th edition's way of rolling/setting up terrain was absolutely terrible. I much preferred larger tourney events where terrain was preplaced. Also, you set up your Fortification at the same time as your army and within your deployment zone.

Unbound Tyranids vs. Dark Angels using the new mission cards. Game went pretty smooth. I really like having a psychic phase. I can foresee shooting something like an AM blob unit with multiple weapons becoming clunky and time consuming, but playable. Cover saves were toned down quite a bit; I can foresee things like Stealth/Shrouding and mass Inv saves becoming very important (or cover ignoring abilities)

No changes that I saw for Look Out Sir and shooting at Fliers.

 Locclo wrote:


8. Lists can now be Battle-forged or Unbound; Battle-forged means that it comes from one army, Unbound lets you throw the FOC out the window and play whatever you want within the points limit. Also, Battle-forged lists can have any number of detachments at any points level.

That's unbound but still all from same codex of course, right?

 da001 wrote:
@Locclo: thank you very much kind sir.

Happy to help.

The book basically says to set the board up in such a way that both players are happy with it.

Lol what? Good luck with that.

Depends on who you play with. I feel like it's far, far superior to the terrain density thing, because then it was perfectly legitimate for your opponent to drop giant walls in front of your fortifications, or place tiny walls in your deployment zone to mess with your deployment. I prefer being able to just sort of put terrain down and try to make it even between the two players than have to do a whole back-and-forth thing before the game starts.

If I may ask:
1) Any changes to Look Out Sir?
2) Any changes to how you shoot at flyers?

1. Doesn't look like it - in fact I think the wording is identical on the rule, with the exception that the FAQ about having to take the closest model is now included in the book.
2. The only change I saw is that Skyfire and Interceptor are no longer intertwined; if you have Skyfire, you fire Snap Shots at ground targets and normal shots at Flyers, period. Interceptor just allows you to fire at things coming out of reserve now.

One more thing worth noting. Terrain now has hull points like vehicles. Big terrain has iirc 5 hull points and is av14 all around and small terrain like adl sections are av12 with 2 hp

 Xiorell wrote:

 Locclo wrote:


8. Lists can now be Battle-forged or Unbound; Battle-forged means that it comes from one army, Unbound lets you throw the FOC out the window and play whatever you want within the points limit. Also, Battle-forged lists can have any number of detachments at any points level.

That's unbound but still all from same codex of course, right?

Nope, you can play an unbound list of space marines and chaos daemons if you want. They're still "come the apocalypse" but CtA doesn't stop you from being allies. Only penalty is CtA allies can not start closer than 12" from each other I think.

So yeah, you have a Tyranids and tau army, you can play them if you want

 ionusx wrote:
One more thing worth noting. Terrain now has hull points like vehicles. Big terrain has iirc 5 hull points and is av14 all around and small terrain like adl sections are av12 with 2 hp

Where do you see those rules? I didn't find anything like that in the Terrain section of the BRB, and I can't find anything like that in Stronghold Assault, either.

Edit: I mean, it's true that buildings have hull points and armor values, but a defense line is not a building, it's Battlefield Debris.

Johnnytorrance wrote:

 Xiorell wrote:

 Locclo wrote:


8. Lists can now be Battle-forged or Unbound; Battle-forged means that it comes from one army, Unbound lets you throw the FOC out the window and play whatever you want within the points limit. Also, Battle-forged lists can have any number of detachments at any points level.

That's unbound but still all from same codex of course, right?

Nope, you can play an unbound list of space marines and chaos daemons if you want. They're still "come the apocalypse" but CtA doesn't stop you from being allies. Only penalty is CtA allies can not start closer than 12" from each other I think.

So yeah, you have a Tyranids and tau army, you can play them if you want

Hmm. OK. But both allies still need to be EITHER forged or unbound ? Can't have forged primary with unbound allies?

Does skilled rider and turbo boosting affect jink saves I.e. Give +1. So skilled rider USR gives a jink of 3+ now? etc

 Scorpionov wrote:
so what has changed with the 7th edition rules if you don't mind me asking?

Because I haven't got the new rule book and not a real tourney player as well

Craters only grant 6+ cover saves now; Sniper rifles have lost pinning (wat) and only have AP2 on a 6 instead of rending, but are +1S when rolling armor pen. Still this means they cannot scratch AV11+ vehicles anymore.

Also, Eldar Farseers can unleash Slaaneshi Daemonettes now and SM Librarians can sacrifice themselves to summon greater daemons while Inquisitors can fight alongside Tyranids.

Welcome to 7th.

So is 7th looking okay so far then? Was slightly worried it was going to be bad and end up causing a lot of anger like the last Tyranids codex did when it came out.

Do you still get a penalty for firing Ordnance weapons on a Heavy vehicle? IE Can a Leman Russ fire its Battle Cannon and Side-sponsons at full BS?

 Glaiceana wrote:
So is 7th looking okay so far then? Was slightly worried it was going to be bad and end up causing a lot of anger like the last Tyranids codex did when it came out.

Well, other than GW having thrown what little was left of game balance completely out of the window and traditional armylist building being a thing of the past, yeah...

Jonah wrote:
IE Can a Leman Russ fire its Battle Cannon and Side-sponsons at full BS?

nope.jpg

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Glaiceana wrote:
So is 7th looking okay so far then? Was slightly worried it was going to be bad and end up causing a lot of anger like the last Tyranids codex did when it came out.

Well, other than GW having thrown what little was left of game balance completely out of the window and traditional armylist building being a thing of the past, yeah...

Doesn't sound too promising really :(

Yep. You can take 1 HQ and 2 Troops and then fill out your favorite slot (like Heavy Support) and then take another HQ, 2 more troops and continue to fill more Heavy Support slots, all in an army less than 2000 points (double FoC was only 2k and more in 6th)

And with all your Heavy Support choices scoring (including vehicles) you really dont have to bother taking anything other than min sized troops squads anymore. Sure, they prevent others from scoring, but troops choices are hardly dangerous to begin with and will just get wiped by specialists.

 Glaiceana wrote:
So is 7th looking okay so far then? Was slightly worried it was going to be bad and end up causing a lot of anger like the last Tyranids codex did when it came out.

Its really just 6th Edition + Escalation and SA, a new (cool IMO) Psyker phase, some new spells, an unfettered army list option (that requires opponent consent), and some minor rule changes, which, again IMO, are for the better.

I think if your wondering whether 7th will be OK, it will just depend on whether or not you liked 6th and Escalation. I liked 6th...I will like 7th.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Glaiceana wrote:
So is 7th looking okay so far then? Was slightly worried it was going to be bad and end up causing a lot of anger like the last Tyranids codex did when it came out.

Its really just 6th Edition + Escalation and SA, a new (cool IMO) Psyker phase, some new spells, an unfettered army list option (that requires opponent consent), and some minor rule changes, which, again IMO, are for the better.

I think if your wondering whether 7th will be OK, it will just depend on whether or not you liked 6th and Escalation. I liked 6th...I will like 7th.

no it's not.

the new rulebook doesnt contain escalation or stronghold assault rules and tells you to buy those books to get the rules.

also unlike 6th ed it has removed points costs for the fortifications that were included (ADL, skyshield, imperial bastion, fortress of redemption etc.) and since 6th ed is out of print, new players will have to pay an additional £20 to get the stronghold assault book to field ADLs.

Also while 7th did abolish Taudar and Marinetau; it made all Imperials battle brothers, so new shenanigans abound e,g, with Draigowing containing a Invisibility psyker.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Glaiceana wrote:
So is 7th looking okay so far then? Was slightly worried it was going to be bad and end up causing a lot of anger like the last Tyranids codex did when it came out.

Its really just 6th Edition + Escalation and SA, a new (cool IMO) Psyker phase, some new spells, an unfettered army list option (that requires opponent consent), and some minor rule changes, which, again IMO, are for the better.

I think if your wondering whether 7th will be OK, it will just depend on whether or not you liked 6th and Escalation. I liked 6th...I will like 7th.

no it's not.

the new rulebook doesnt contain escalation or stronghold assault rules and tells you to buy those books to get the rules.

also unlike 6th ed it has removed points costs for the fortifications that were included (ADL, skyshield, imperial bastion, fortress of redemption etc.)

Also while 7th did abolish Taudar and Marinetau; it made all Imperials battle brothers, so new shenanigans abound e,g, with Draigowing containing a Invisibility psyker.

Yeah, I didn't mean that the new Rulebook included Escalation and Strongholds books inside, only that it normalized these models in a "normal" 40k game.

The other changes your talking about (allies) is just a tweak to the existing chart. All these non-Psyker rules tweaks are just tweaks. Though they may have big implications, they are not fundamanetal changes to the game system.

Anyone figure out how codexes/supplements get to Ally with themselves now? It seems that Allies MUST be from a different faction (wth?).

 Sir Arun wrote:
Yep. You can take 1 HQ and 2 Troops and then fill out your favorite slot (like Heavy Support) and then take another HQ, 2 more troops and continue to fill more Heavy Support slots, all in an army less than 2000 points (double FoC was only 2k and more in 6th)

And with all your Heavy Support choices scoring (including vehicles) you really dont have to bother taking anything other than min sized troops squads anymore. Sure, they prevent others from scoring, but troops choices are hardly dangerous to begin with and will just get wiped by specialists.

This seems a self-fulfilling prophecy: Troops will just get wiped out by specialists, therefore I will only take two minimum-sized squads, hey look they died quickly what a surprise.

I take it you can have multiple detachments of one army?

well they cant unless the supplement specifically allows it

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Anyone figure out how codexes/supplements get to Ally with themselves now? It seems that Allies MUST be from a different faction (wth?).

Well look at that...you can't bring an Allied Detachment from the same army. Page 122/Allied Detachment/Restrictions/Line 4

Aha! So this trick

 Sir Arun wrote:
Yep. You can take 1 HQ and 2 Troops and then fill out your favorite slot (like Heavy Support) and then take another HQ, 2 more troops and continue to fill more Heavy Support slots, all in an army less than 2000 points (double FoC was only 2k and more in 6th).....

won't let you spam one particular unit. You'd have to have, say, buy a Captain, two Tac Squads, and three Predators; then a Company Command Squad, two Veteran Squads, and three Leman Russes; etc.

EDITED: No, I'm totally wrong.